Sign in to follow this  
Mordraug

Perimeters....

Recommended Posts

So perimeters..... always been a point of contention and a favorite for griefing a deed.... 


 


In a Town Square thread I popped the comment about them that goes: "50% of the cost for 0% of the benefits sounds like a really shoddy deal to me".


 


Problem is they're free for all but they're not but they are but they're free but they're mandatory but you can pay to expand them but they're free for all.  And griefers are LOVING IT, nothing like finding a deed far from everyone else and digging the perimeter clean, then walking away clean because "i needed the dirt" (go to a desert, make a dredge, you putz that's a weak excuse.... yet it works).


 


Then the affected deed's owner can't retaliate, even if it's digging up that exact same dirt from the griefer's perimeter because suddenly "intent" becomes oooh so clear and victim becomes criminal.


 


Brings us to the classic Wurm scenario... one guy can get many people to quit so less revenue for Wurm.


 


People start suspecting GM's: <--- (FFS THESE ARE EXAMPLES OF WHAT PEOPLE END UP THINKING, NOT ME MAKING AFFIRMATIONS ABOUT GAME STAFF)


a) Don't give a hell hound's foot fire.


B) Are corrupt and accepted some form of silver bribe.


c) Are covering for a friend.


d) Are inept.


e) You name it, for example I've caught myself wondering if griefers are given that much liberty to coax people into expanding deeds and thus upkeep costs. 


 


So back to 50% cost for 0% benefits.  Given the traditional modus operandi of griefing someone via their perimeter (those goddamn 5 tiles are almost an invitation).... why not give perimeters 50% of the benefits too.


 


Tied directly to deed settings (if deed allows it perimeter too, deed disallows so does perimeter):


-  Woodcutting.


-  Digging


-  Mining


-  Terraforming  Double restriction, my bad =P


-  And the existing building restrictions.


 


Those 4 settings on perimeter would, from what I've seen in my Wurm time, kill the vast majority of griefing-via-perimeter and all its related problems while giving perimeter more meaning than paying for a free for all zone (it's included in the deed founding, it's not free... free and included are two different things.  A toy with "batteries not included" on the box could include them during December, that's a GIFT).


 


Sidenote: Saw another thread about separate settings for resource digging (tar/peat/clay/moss) which would also rock combined with this, as many perimeters hold those resources currently, and on the other hand deeding over tar without messing up all the locals would be nice for placement purposes.


Edited by Mordraug
  • Like 10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nothing against your suggestion but I think people are missing the point here about perimeters, the only thing it should protect against is deed expansion from a neighbor. If this actually happens, what your suggesting, people will just use perimeters instead of deeding to save money kinda destroys the point of the deed tile doesn't it?


  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wurm withdrawals while servers are offline :P


 


Now think about Wurm like a city. You have a house you bought, with a garden, you still pay a monthly tax for city's maintenance, but that doesn't stop other people to do "things" outside your walls. Sometimes they will jump over your real fences and sleep under your bushes, or leave little "pressies" there.


 


The only difference is, in Wurm you can fence your perimeter (and even more) and KoS people you don't like (I soooo wish I could do that IRL :lol: ).


 


Maybe not be the best comparison, but I think I made my point. And heh, I have Wurm withdrawals too.


 


 


 


P.S. I love my preimeter area too, I wish I could join my two adiacent deeds and remove the perimeter tiles between them.


But I also love to be able to dig clay in someone else's perimeter (if that saves me an hour trip around) and .. people HAVE to pay for upkeeps, or the game would stop run due to lack of funds. (Shall I mention here how much of those funds are coming back into the game through foraging, botanizing, selling to tokens and NPCs and so on?)


Edited by Evening

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+1 I'm over quota for likes.


 


Aether - He's saying that a solution to perimeter griefing is to allow some form of permissions lockdown on perimeter.


 


What this means:


 


Tied directly to deed settings (if deed allows it perimeter too, deed disallows so does perimeter):

 



-  Woodcutting.


-  Digging


-  Mining


-  Terraforming


-  And the existing building restrictions.


 


What this doesn't means:


Templars/KoS


Gates/Locks


Decay prevention


Light fuel upkeep


 


 


As for naysayers, consider the horde on your doorstep. I've done a lot of extensive terraforming work, only to have the image ruined by locust-minded players coming through with the direct intention of ruining the image.


I cannot retaliate, because that would now be griefing.


Many deed owners have this issue for no reason other than there is no protection for the deed owner.


Deed it or lose it does not work, I kept expanding. After 30s/mo, this arguement is invalid.


Edited by Makarus
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeh, those 4 new restrictions, basically "landscape securing" .. but people can still tame, lead, bash enclosures, kill, pick up, load, push, pull, drag, fish, forage/botanize, farm if there's dirt tiles conveniently there, and all that goodness regardless of deed settings like before.


 


Just not clearcut, dig a few cliffs, or the very classical busting holes into peoples' mines.


  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you should just deed it, if you want it to be your land. I bought many tiles outside of my constructed deed area in order to preserve the landscape the way 'I' want it.


  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have an idea on the perimiter issue. If it is becoming such an issue,Why don't the FREE perimiter be taken away and if you want it. THEN DEED it. This would solve all the bickering and fighting because you now have to pay for the whole area to be deeded because even if someone deeds beside you, the option to expand is gone. Personally I would pay for the extra tiles to prevent any further issues. No furhter roles would need to be created and people can't say well its my perimiter.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nothing against your suggestion but I think people are missing the point here about perimeters, the only thing it should protect against is deed expansion from a neighbor. If this actually happens, what your suggesting, people will just use perimeters instead of deeding to save money kinda destroys the point of the deed tile doesn't it?

 

The deed tile allows you to drop piles of silver without risk if your settings are right.

 

With the current system, perimeters do three things:

-  Block deeding.

-  Block buildings.

-  Provide griefing loopholes which are constantly used.

 

After all, beyond the 5 tiles it costs money and we have no option to get rid of those 5 tiles if say, we wanted to have two deeds side by side.  Instead we get to make 2 deeds side by side and hope Uneducated Johnny doesn't decide to put a moat between the two under some lame excuse.

 

The 4 restrictions i'm suggesting are so Johnny simply loses the ability to drive people away from Wurm and into LiF =P

Edited by Mordraug
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why don't people stop being shitholes and avoid tearing up landscape work that was done to augment the deed?


 


This wouldn't be an issue if people had basic courtesy.


  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you should just deed it, if you want it to be your land. I bought many tiles outside of my constructed deed area in order to preserve the landscape the way 'I' want it.

 

So it's OK if someone digs up your perimeters to rock, including your road to the rest of the world (it's not a highway, eh? eh?)... I'm pretty sure you'd be royally pissed off.

 

In case you're wondering, no one's been dumb enough to try that on me but have done so on several friends on several different occasions.  If I could grab my shovel and go to their perimeter for dirt to fix my friends' area, this thread wouldn't exist.  But I can't, because then I'M the one griefing the poor poor innocent player who just wanted resources.

 

tl;dr  Perimeters are the perfect griefing tool atm because the initial act has lots of loopholes to protect it, while retaliating with the exact same actions is a clear cut "intent to cause harm or distress".

Edited by Mordraug
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 If I could grab my shovel and go to their perimeter for dirt to fix my friends' area, this thread wouldn't exist.  But I can't, because then I'M the one griefing the poor poor innocent player who just wanted resources.

 

 

Total BS, if 1 player can do it then all players can do it or there needs to be a set in concrete rule, as it is now perimeter is the wilds of wurm with no building allowed.

 

Keroth is right players need to deed (not perimeter) the tiles they want 100% control over.

 

I would like to see perimeter lowered to 1 or 2 tiles and the perimeter resizing removed from deed management altogether, players have the wrong idea about what the perimeter is exactly and the complaints about it keep rolling in.

Edited by lawurm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To the remove perimeter and make us deed it... Simply put, you can't. There must be at least 1 space between borders because the outside border is part of the deed. Without at minimum of 1 tile, deeds would share a border and fences on that border would be on both deeds. Also, this could cause a situation where you find a whole string of deeds back to back with no way around them for travel. And worse case scenario is someone can put deeds touching borders all the way around someone's deed in the center and effectively legally seal them in.


 


The best fix is simply this... if there is a resource you need in a perimeter and there are not deeds packed in the area like sardines in a can, it won't kill you to walk 5 tiles to the right and dig there. I don't know about other servers but there is plenty of open space on Release to dig up, bulldoze, clearcut, or whatever you want to do without it being within 5 tiles of someone's deed.


 


+1 to some kind of limited 5 tile max range protection until people learn a bit of decency. Just like in kindergarten, if Little Johnny continues to eat the crayons, take them away from him. There's not much of stretch in the mentality there between Little Johnny and Little Perimeter Digger.


  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The way you have to think of a perimiter is simply a "building code"

1. When someone buys a plot of land, the building code prevents anyone from building aby structure within 5 tiles of that plot of land.

2. For a hefty fee you may bribe officials to extend the range of that protection (bigger perim).

3. You only own the deeded land.

4. So let's imagine you get more protections on perim space? Ok... Now the bad people just grief you on the land outide your perim. Now what?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Audrel.  Sorry to hear you're having troubles.  I like the idea of 50% benefits in perimeter with resources (clay, moss, etc.) unsecured.  I think there should be differentiation between the 2 types of perimeter, perhaps call the 5 free tiles "deed boarders" and not extend the benefits to those tiles as they are not paid for.  This would allow us to have extended areas just to make things look good and not have to worry about the unfriendlies.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Outside that 5 tiles, I don't care if they dig to hell and trip into the fires. :-) Inside it, as long as they don't go nuts and strip it bare, I really don't care either. Hunt all you want. Forage all you want. Take saplings. Eat mushroom. Have a kegger. Sleep under a rock.


 


However, even where the deeds are "close," there's 15 to 30 tiles between them. There's plenty of all of the above there too. 


 


I'm not trying to be a butthead here, Wurmhole. I am simply asking for a bit of respect. When there is an entire desert there with nothing in it but sand and dirt, why? When there is an entire forest with no deeds in it there, why? Why does it HAVE to be in that 5 tiles?


 


Courtesy. It's really that simple. Walk 5 paces and knock yourself out.


  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This will never be resolved because those who want to grief perimeters will always scream bloody murder (example in reply below). Personally I don't care if someone chops down all the trees in my perimeter. I don't care if they take clay. I don't care if they take tar. I don't care if they kill mobs. I don't care if they take things that either don't get used up or that I can replant and grow back. What I do care about is when they dig pits, expose huge area of rock and ruin my mines. Leave perimeters as they are and just don't allow people to dig or mine them. Problem solved and oh so many fences not needed. 


Edited by Clatius
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

-1


 


Perimeter excist to prevent people to "claim" the land with structures and deeds, nothing more.


If you want control over what people do with the land then you deed it.


  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like everyone else with a deed have a perimeter and said perimeter is not mine I don't pay for it  ( its right there in black and white when you deed, a perimeter of 5 tiles is free )  it is a buffer zone generously given by code club


 


Yes it sucks some one went and dug in someones perimeter, but once again for clarity we don't own perimeters they are a courtesy afforded us by the developers


You want the land you deed the land 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is so special about that 5 tiles of dirt that makes it better than the 100 tiles beyond it, Zeke? I'm not talking about a densely populated area. Am I supposed to expand my deed every time this guy wants THAT 5 tiles of dirt?


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

-1 remove perimeter all together and only allow a 5 tile free space added as a buffer to each deed.


Edited by Uberknot
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It does boil down to respect. People are digging, mining etc. in perimeters to grief. There is no other explanation when there are plenty of resources around everywhere, outside of deeded perimeters. And yet they choose not to dig and mine anywhere other then in someones perimeter. Why have perims at all if there is no way to control what goes on there? And what is the incentive for me to pay for more than 5 tiles of perim if I still can't control what goes on there?


 


To me the whole perimeter system needs an overhaul. Either let us be able to have some sort of control of what goes on there or get rid of it entirely. 


 


Better yet, how about people stop being d*bags and have some common courtesy for your fellow Wurmians.


Edited by Araninke
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The whole intent of the perimeter system, and many of the things that allow griefing, was in the hope that people would act as a part of a community and communicate with their neighbors.


Guess this just goes to show that hoping for honest and open people in your game was just wishful thinking or maybe to many hits of acid in the 70s.


  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The whole intent of the perimeter system, and many of the things that allow griefing, was in the hope that people would act as a part of a community and communicate with their neighbors.

Guess this just goes to show that hoping for honest and open people in your game was just wishful thinking or maybe to many hits of acid in the 70s.

 

 

The intent was to allow you to pre purchase tiles you plan to deed cheaply and pay a very low upkeep to reserve those tiles.

 

The reason you get no rights to them is they are not costing as much purchase or keep.

 

I wish they would just make people pay deeded costs period for all tiles and end this trash of I own my perimeter.

Edited by Uberknot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this