Remove Artifacts, Champions and SOTG [CHAOS ONLY]

[Battlepaw 585]

Battlepaw why you make this KvK? get of your high horse and face that fact that in the end we are all Players, no matter kingdom. And I still chose to Believe that we all want to have fun in this game no matter if your jk,bl or mr. Or maybe you dont?

 

I'm not making it KvK,  you are trying to play the blame game and not argue the actual issue at hand.   I've tried to stay out of the whole KvK thing and most of you know my own attitude about the whole kingdom rivalry crap that goes on in the forums.     Its retarded, and is hardly constructive.     

[Hashirama 870]

This is the problem when you let a side keep the artifacts, they will always try to encourage changes to benefit them. If only anyone here really wanted to balance anything, they would support artifacts auto dropping in ground so that everyone actually got a chance to dig them out and use them for a short span until they auto dropped again. Not gonna argue any further regarding this, good luck guys! o/

[Battlepaw 585]

This is the problem when you let a side keep the artifacts, they will always try to encourage changes to benefit them. If only anyone here really wanted to balance anything, they would support artifacts auto dropping in ground so that everyone actually got a chance to dig them out and use them for a short span until they auto dropped again. Not gonna argue any further regarding this, good luck guys! o/

 

Auto dropping in the ground like as in on a timer? Meaning it's just a potluck race who can get it or introduce mechanics that make actually fighting artifact holders less risky, and having the artifacts drop on the ground because players were successful in taking out a holder?     

 

It's a sandbox game, and part of that is player initiative.    I don't see just sitting around waiting for an artifact to pop as initiave, unless you took an initiave to actually fortify one of the altars, or blow one up.   There is a big difference between potluck and actually making things happen.    

[mthoodyn 56]

I'm not making it KvK,  you are trying to play the blame game and not argue the actual issue at hand.   I've tried to stay out of the whole KvK thing and most of you know my own attitude about the whole kingdom rivalry crap that goes on in the forums.     Its retarded, and is hardly constructive.

Yet you do, but forget about that for now and focus at the problem at hand "Sotg, artifacts and Champs" ok?

SOTG is OP, why? cause it makes you a mini-champ. Is that ok? no, not in my book its not. Sure everyone can meditate to get SOTG, its even almost a neccessity to have SOTG if you want to pvp - that alone should make it kind of clear to you that its OP and not ok for one bit. Does it? or Does it not?

Artifacts - 1 hit kill or very Close to it. Is that OK? even if it takes like 1 day to spam spells to locate them and dig them up? is that hard work? no not really. Is it hard work to bash the light? nah with some effort you can do it. But does all that mean its ok for the artis to be so OP`? No it doesnt.

Change the way artifacts work today to something that DOESNT involve anything with PVP what so ever.

Change SOTG and make it a timed ability 15 min per each 24 hours. OR make it 15% constant damage reduction.

Champs? well I dont know what to say here, just remove the CR buffs and make the damage redction to 25%. And make them last only 1 month. Then someone else can get a shot at it.

[watkins141 994]

Ur all dumb, but carry on.....it's good drama to read with breakfast

[Propheteer 7,139]

Yet you do, but forget about that for now and focus at the problem at hand "Sotg, artifacts and Champs" ok?

SOTG is OP, why? cause it makes you a mini-champ. Is that ok? no, not in my book its not. Sure everyone can meditate to get SOTG, its even almost a neccessity to have SOTG if you want to pvp - that alone should make it kind of clear to you that its OP and not ok for one bit. Does it? or Does it not?

Artifacts - 1 hit kill or very Close to it. Is that OK? even if it takes like 1 day to spam spells to locate them and dig them up? is that hard work? no not really. Is it hard work to bash the light? nah with some effort you can do it. But does all that mean its ok for the artis to be so OP`? No it doesnt.

Change the way artifacts work today to something that DOESNT involve anything with PVP what so ever.

Change SOTG and make it a timed ability 15 min per each 24 hours. OR make it 15% constant damage reduction.

Champs? well I dont know what to say here, just remove the CR buffs and make the damage redction to 25%. And make them last only 1 month. Then someone else can get a shot at it.

 

There aren't enough people for it to last 1 month with a 12mo cooldown.

[Battlepaw 585]

Change the way artifacts work today to something that DOESNT involve anything with PVP what so ever.  Artifacts create PvP, this isn't freedom it's a PvP server, and the more diverse set of things you have to fight over the better.   

Change SOTG and make it a timed ability 15 min per each 24 hours. OR make it 15% constant damage reduction.  I'm ambivalent either way, but good luck getting anyone to agree on a SOTG change.  As it stands right now, until the combat system undergoes some serious changes I don't see how a SOTG nerf will solve anything.    

Champs? well I dont know what to say here, just remove the CR buffs and make the damage redction to 25%. And make them last only 1 month. Then someone else can get a shot at it.  Wait, you don't think you have a fair shot at it?   Er just how does your kingdom do things?    We have nominations here and anyone can try to champ, though we do encourage people with good skills to do so.   I'll be champing up myself someday, and I'm hardly worried I won't ever have a chance to do it.  

 

 

 

Ur all dumb, but carry on.....it's good drama to read with breakfast

 

I try not to take myself too seriously here if that helps.      

 

                   [Them]

 

                          [Me]

                                                         [Everyone else]

[mthoodyn 56]

So Battlepaw, you mean the people that already got SOTG doesnt want it changed? that further proves my Point that its OP. Thanks for clarifying that.

[Hashirama 870]

Auto dropping in the ground like as in on a timer? Meaning it's just a potluck race who can get it or introduce mechanics that make actually fighting artifact holders less risky, and having the artifacts drop on the ground because players were successful in taking out a holder?     

 

It's a sandbox game, and part of that is player initiative.    I don't see just sitting around waiting for an artifact to pop as initiave, unless you took an initiave to actually fortify one of the altars, or blow one up.   There is a big difference between potluck and actually making things happen.    

 

no, I meant making them un-rechargable. So that they go to ground eventually.

[mthoodyn 56]

no, I meant making them un-rechargable. So that they go to ground eventually.

Thats a good idea to. But wont change the root of the problem, they are to OP.

But good suggestion

[Battlepaw 585]

no, I meant making them un-rechargable. So that they go to ground eventually.

The whole charging thing puts it up to each kingdom that wants to make an artifact pop can choose when they want one to go.     

 

Right now, because MR does own a good portion of the map, and so does JK a random timer or "eventually'  would mostly be in favor of which kingdom controls the most land.   If a kingdom doesn't control land they can still get the drop on a larger kingdom by controlling a light or controlling when to blow it up.  I still don't like the idea of potluck.   

 

It's bad enough we have a lot of stuff that gets screwed up because of random timers, the mission system for one, but the artifacts should go to the kingdom with the initiative to keep them and fight to get them back when they lose them, not a random lottery.    I'm saying this from the perspective of someone who helped get the artifacts back when MR lost them not long ago, and that event is what pretty much popped MR out of it's complacent funk it was in, and drove us to come together and fight for those things.    

Edited February 26, 2015 by Battlepaw

[mthoodyn 56]

You forgot Another equation to add Battlepaw: What if a kingdom has more players, its easier for them then to get the OP-Artifacts, isnt it?

What Hashirama suggested would make it more fair.

[Battlepaw 585]

You forgot Another equation to add Battlepaw: What if a kingdom has more players, its easier for them then to get the OP-Artifacts, isnt it?

What Hashirama suggested would make it more fair.

 

This isn't a football game mthoodyn, its a player driven world.   MR wasn't always as large as it is now, and certainly numbers doesn't always mean the players are always more organized.     We became what we are today through hard work, recruitment and keeping our members a community and involved in the game.    

 

What your saying is that shouldn't matter, that everything shouldn't depend on the decisions we make as a community.     How does that reflect well in a sandbox MMO where we shape the world?   

[Sizzle 184]

you realize they do that because of mag bonus right? if I were to smack someone in plate with my large maul, it would bring them to like half hp.

I think you just don't understand that its mag bonus combined with them, being what makes it seem op. If you put them on someone who doesn't have mag bonus, they no longer hit someone for ridiculous damage like you are saying.

So let me figure this out cause Im a bit slow. You claim, that the priest you so desperately mail Rolf to boost, has a dmg bonus, that combined together with the powerful artifacts generates a ridiculously op combination that can one shot people ?

[SotG_is_OP 357]

I never said they wern't powerful, I've seen how much wreackage they do, and they are artifacts for crying out loud, they are supposed to be powerful and coveted.  What I'm saying is instead of trying to play the nerf/balance game with them like we do with everything else and usually make things worse we can use the mechanics differently.    

 

I've seen this crap go on before, and the whole seesaw thing is bullcrap.  I'm tried of those kinds of "fixes".     

 

"They should be OP; don't fix them because it would require balancing them"

 

1. Does my paticluar solution even seem to be close to what most of MR has been arguing over in this thread?    There have been more than one person in MR who has disagreed with my approach to the problem, yet you want to lump us all into some stupid fantasy sterotype.    It's much more convient that way isn't it?  

 

 

 

2. If I liked how it was I wouldn't be trying to pose soulutions.     There are problems with how it is now, but trying to play a damage tweak seesaw game with the artifacts won't solve the problem, I've seen this crap in the past and It's the same thing as when we were going over the spell systems.     Your solution is to vaguely suggest that things should be removed and reverted to some sort days of 'yore crap.    I don't see that as a solution I see it as lazyness.   

 

1. Yes, it sounds exactly like what you and your kingdom have been arguing: "Don't fix it because it helps me."

 

2.  I don't like it this way so don't fix it.

 

Its retarded, and is hardly constructive.     

 

Like everything you post?

This isn't a football game mthoodyn, its a player driven world.     

 

Same ###### "it's a sandbox doesn't need balance" argument.

[Madt 1,178]

This isn't a football game mthoodyn, its a player driven world.   MR wasn't always as large as it is now, and certainly numbers doesn't always mean the players are always more organized.     We became what we are today through hard work, recruitment and keeping our members a community and involved in the game.    

 

What your saying is that shouldn't matter, that everything shouldn't depend on the decisions we make as a community.     How does that reflect well in a sandbox MMO where we shape the world?   

 

It's terrible logic to claim that any group that is large and/or powerful deserves extra bonuses simply because they're already large and/or powerful.

It should be a difficult and constant struggle to keep power, not be made easier to keep once you have it. So there goes that argument right out of the window. Claiming otherwise will prove you're deluded into how thing's should work.

Please note I'm talking about power as in strength of a kingdom, not the artifacts directly.

 

Anyway why is this all up for discussion? Isn't this about the power of the artifacts? What does that have to do with who holds them? Since they can change hands, who holds them doesn't really mean anything at all, what matters is are they overpowered.

Trying to justify their power by saying "Well, our kingdom is so strong and has done soo much, maybe we deserve some overpowered weapons for all our work, right guys??. :-):-)" Has to be the craziest grasp for straws I've ever seen.

[Hexproof 496]

i remember back in the LOLB and BB days when there were no horses no meditation no artifacts being used 

 

good times

 

 

OH YA and the calf shots... i really miss calf shots

Edited February 26, 2015 by Hexproof

[JockII 338]

 

OH YA and the calf shots... i really miss calf shots

THIS solves everything!

[Propheteer 7,139]

THIS solves everything!

 

the sad part is that it really does

[MetalDragon 1,630]

I don't care about champions as I like the idea of LIMITED Macho players, sort of commanders in pvp.

I don't like sotg as it's only 10% weaker than champion and can be equal to champion if you add some tomes to the mix - it makes no sense to ever go champion other than some free skills temporarily. I can't even see how anyone can argue with this statement, with enough effort (or money) you can become a champion permanently with no penalty.

I don't like how attack artifacts have real 'charge usage' other than a bit of free favour, the damage output is enough to warrant a point per successful hit/glance with the weapon (in pvp)

[SotG_is_OP 357]

Champ is pretty much "push button for shield of the gone". The lifted priest restrictions and enchanting restrictions mean nothing because people have alts for these things anyway.

[ftoz 122]

And do y want to remove from wurm? Y can if y want. I  read all topic that SOTG is OP, but cant any facts how its work? Can any dev exactly explain how it work? I red , it should be 35%,25%,15%, but i think that absolutely OT, because seem it is on every level of it. If try think how it can work deeply and if has armour with 60% damage reduction+ 50% SOTG. What is final reduction? 110%. Oh no, belive some wogic, but no such. So think that 50% is mean on unarmored unit.Its hard construct some theory from one irc sentece. So without no armor can be 50%. if have 60% damage reduction armour, complete reduction must calculate different. In some post were written that if has 60% armour, SOTG has 50% up to 100, so its 60%+20%. it give me sence, so i if wear better armour SOTG % goes down. So if someone think that SOTG+ drake scale is nearly imortal, i think that is most bad choice and give only small %. With  low or unarmored parts it boost great.

 

SOTG was not explain, so it is only meaning. Cant say it is OP if dont know how it work.

Edited February 26, 2015 by ftoz

[watkins141 994]

Spider plz

[Battlepaw 585]

It's terrible logic to claim that any group that is large and/or powerful deserves extra bonuses simply because they're already large and/or powerful.

 

No wrong, I'm not saying that at all, what I'm saying is that a group that wants something  and is willing to work to keep them should be able to do so.

 

It should be a difficult and constant struggle to keep power, not be made easier to keep once you have it. So there goes that argument right out of the window. Claiming otherwise will prove you're deluded into how thing's should work.

 

You don't think it isn't a difficult struggle?  Pfft, you didn't see how many countless hours we've put into fortifiying the WL to force the JK to fight us for the artifacts, or preparing the events to blow up the black lights, or building all the war deeds we have around the HOTA.   The argument does not go out the window, its validated by player initiative and coming together as a community instead of depending on random timers or crap like that.     

 

Please note I'm talking about power as in strength of a kingdom, not the artifacts directly.

 

A kingdom is only as strong as it's players, forum PvP and the kind of pure ###### you spew shouldn't be a replacement for things you can do in-game.    

 

 

Anyway why is this all up for discussion? Isn't this about the power of the artifacts? What does that have to do with who holds them? Since they can change hands, who holds them doesn't really mean anything at all, what matters is are they overpowered.

 

And they should be, powerful.   They are artifacts, they should be.  However, You don't need to have to equate powerful to broken though if the current mechanics were equated to encourage attacking holders.    There are alternatives to trying to play the nerf/buff seesaw game that rarely works well anyways.  

 

Trying to justify their power by saying "Well, our kingdom is so strong and has done soo much, maybe we deserve some overpowered weapons for all our work, right guys??. :-):-)" Has to be the craziest grasp for straws I've ever seen.

 

What you are trying to justify is your own delusions that player initiative should mean nothing? It doesn't require a massive kingdom to hold them, just an organized one.   Hell you've seen what happened when we weren't careful about where we kept the Artifacts, we lost them.   

Edited February 26, 2015 by Battlepaw

[mthoodyn 56]

It all seems to come down to this "Hey I got SOTG" hence iam against all nerfs what so ever.

Hey I got all artifacts hence iam against all nerfs what so ever.

Besides, i forgot to add one thing to the poll. All this sorcery stuff with tomes and buffs and all of that. Keep that on challenge not on chaos!