Remove Artifacts, Champions and SOTG [CHAOS ONLY]

[Klaa 4,872]

Awesome, its archery all over again.

[Propheteer 7,139]

Awesome, its archery all over again.

 

Doesn't really compare.

[MrGARY 12,421]

except... it hasn't been nerfed since release... I have it and its a 10 second timer, and is extremely powerful and has netted many kills...

 

Also I double checked just 1 min ago and it is still 10 seconds... so idk where you are getting your info from but yeah its wrong.

 

http://wurmpedia.com/index.php/Wurm_Server_Release_Notes_2013#130926_A_few_custom_kingdom_changes

 

As for the argument of dominating valrei creatures that keeps popping up...  Are you not aware that they could be rebirthed/dominated already and was removed?  Are you even aware why valrei creatures or avatars even are so powerful?  It's the obliterating stun that keeps you perma stunlocked while doing insane damage to you, not just you but also everyone else and their horses in range.... there's absolutely nothing in game that compares to that

[Klaa 4,872]

Doesn't really compare.

 

Not yet anyways. There was far more accusations and personal attacks flying around back then. Its only a matter of time however, and I already see the seeds sprouting.

[JukimoV2 30]

http://wurmpedia.com/index.php/Wurm_Server_Release_Notes_2013#130926_A_few_custom_kingdom_changes

 

As for the argument of dominating valrei creatures that keeps popping up...  Are you not aware that they could be rebirthed/dominated already and was removed?  Are you even aware why valrei creatures or avatars even are so powerful?  It's the obliterating stun that keeps you perma stunlocked while doing insane damage to you, not just you but also everyone else and their horses in range.... there's absolutely nothing in game that compares to that

??? its 10 seconds not 15, what are you on about...

[JukimoV2 30]

and yeah the stun on valrei creatures is rediculously broken. 20 dmg thru 90ql drake on someone with 50 body.... thats just absurd.... and stunned for 10~ seconds or more

[Kagrenac 812]

??? its 10 seconds not 15, what are you on about...

It was 4, then ~15, then reduced to 10 I assume.

The last time I used it was shortly after that nerf.

and yeah the stun on valrei creatures is rediculously broken. 20 dmg thru 90ql drake on someone with 50 body.... thats just absurd.... and stunned for 10~ seconds or more

internal=ignores armor.

Not sure what that has to do with anything though.

[mthoodyn 56]

and yeah the stun on valrei creatures is rediculously broken. 20 dmg thru 90ql drake on someone with 50 body.... thats just absurd.... and stunned for 10~ seconds or more

But it would be ok to add that ingame, letting magranon be able to dominate them and equip them with weapons? I mean magranon worked hard for their skills...If its OP, who cares? Get my drift?

Seems to me Jukimo that it wouldnt matter if someone found out a way to be invincible unkillable with Powers to kill all server with one click. That wouldnt be OP to you, that would be an intended feature that that person worked hard for to reach...If something is broken Jukimo then it IS broken, no matter how much you try to justify its existence!

Edited February 26, 2015 by mthoodyn

[Battlepaw 585]

But it would be ok to add that ingame, letting magranon be able to dominate them and equip them with weapons? I mean magranon worked hard for their skills...If its OP, who cares? Get my drift?

Seems to me Jukimo that it wouldnt matter if someone found out a way to be invincible unkillable with Powers to kill all server with one click. That wouldnt be OP to you, that would be an intended feature that that person worked hard for to reach...If something is broken Jukimo then it IS broken, no matter how much you try to justify its existence!

 

So you get to decide what's broken now?  Seriously, your as bad as SOTG_is_OP.     That's your solution to everything?   Blow it up?   Get rid of features and just hope that things will be better?   

 

You want to know how shortsighted and broken you would make it if you got your way?   First, without SOTG the crits from not just artifacts, but the whole broken system would be more enhanced.    The reason people like SOTG, is that it does give you a bit more leeway against the stupid broken crit system especially if you are running around in a tin can.      Most of that has NOTHING to do with artifacts, and we both know this, or at least I would have thought you would have noticed it by now. 

 

Artifacts, removed takes away a big part of the the Chaos server, removing champions takes a mechanic away that lets people actually champ up and do serious damage, even on lower tier accounts.   It won't be an equalizer, either way.    It break the system even more and make the current skill gaps even more apparent.   

 

This isn't new, I've been watching this stupid issue being hashed over in multiple topics.   The whole root of the issue has little to do with your stupid artifacts or STOG complaints and more to do with all the retarded things that are broken in the way damage is calculated.  Don't tell me you haven't seen other weapons do the exact same crap that artifacts do, because I have multiple videos of conventional weapons doing nearly as much damage when they crit.  

 

The whole point of Chaos is to fight wisely, and as a team.   There have been multiple times over and over again MR has been outfought when it was in situations even with artifacts, when we were disorganized.  There is no "unkillable" player, only how well you play the game.  

 

I wouldn't mind some changes to the artifacts too, they should encourage PvP, and there are things that can be done other than making them useless again.   The only thing that cracks me is up is how much you pretend that JK or any other kingdom with enough players and drive can't do the same things MR can, and blow up the WL, and get artifacts.    They are powerful for a reason, so people fight over them in-game, not the freaking forums.     Get it through your thick skulls and start playing a sandbox game and stop playing who can scream uncle the loudest.    

Edited March 4, 2015 by necroe
Moderation edit

[mthoodyn 56]

Battlepaw I fail to understand your logic, if there even is one. Or do you just want to post useless posts for the fun of it?

SOTG is stupid, artifacts is stupid, champions are stupid. Actually nothing to discuss, just accept it. Doesnt matter how much you try to justify it, its still stupid, game-breaking and ruins pvp and fun for everyone.

But as I said, tides will change eventually, lets se what stand you take then lol!

[MetalDragon 1,630]

Lol battlepaw saying people have thick skulls but didn't have a clue about the lies behind pushing for mag changes and also likely never tested critical hit chances other than the few occasions one has happened.

[Postinglels 1,270]

And no matter what you think battlepaw you will never be right without atleast testing. Otherwise it's just another spew of words

[mthoodyn 56]

This is Battlepaws logic: If a new unique weapon is introduced that can kill a player in 1 hit. The best way to fix that OP weapon is to add a special meditating ability that makes you get 90% damage reduction. INSTEAD of removing said weapon to fix the whole issue, we now got TWO issues: 1: an OP weapon, 2: An OP ability.

I rest my case. Feel free to post in this thread Battlepaw, cause I cant stop you from doing it sadly...

[SotG_is_OP 357]

I contradicted myself so many times here lel

Edited February 26, 2015 by SotG_is_OP

[Battlepaw 585]

This is Battlepaws logic: If a new unique weapon is introduced that can kill a player in 1 hit. The best way to fix that OP weapon is to add a special meditating ability that makes you get 90% damage reduction. INSTEAD of removing said weapon to fix the whole issue, we now got TWO issues: 1: an OP weapon, 2: An OP ability.

I rest my case. Feel free to post in this thread Battlepaw, cause I cant stop you from doing it sadly...

 

No that is your logic you are the one saying the stupid crap about adding stuff, and taking away what you don't like.    You want to use what mechanics we have or do you want to go play another game?  It sounds more like to me you will keep complaining through topic and topic until you are finally at a game you want to play rather than trying to play a game that actually makes you work for something.  

 

It's pure utter fantasy, you can't have everything perfect in your own perfect little world.   

 

And no matter what you think battlepaw you will never be right without atleast testing. Otherwise it's just another spew of words

 

I sure havn't seen much of that on your part just lots of grandstanding by the usual forum trolls here it's all a drama fest.     I'ts all talk, and talks of nerfs, and how much better the good ole days were.   Well the "good ole days" sucked just as much as the fight system does now.  I was there I was killed in the raid where champions were rolling waves of fire pillars into enemies, and we could have as many champs as we wanted.    

 

The current limit on champs now keep it from getting out of hand, and the new cooldowns, while they have mixed effect they do limit some of the problems.     The badaids are what we have to work with, it sux, but players do work with the current system.   They blow up the lights, and they claim the artifacts and use them.  It's sure a hell of a lot better than when they sat unused.     

 

Make the current system work for who wants to be the most proactive, now who cries the loudest.   It's why I wouldn't mind if artifacts drop res or no, and you get a free res when hit by them, and if you are carrying them you also get to keep your stuff if you die.   This encourages them to be used, and for attackers to try and get them.    It's a hell of a lot more fun than having to sit them on a shelf and forget about them, or removing them altogether.      

[Madt 1,178]

 

I wouldn't mind some changes to the artifacts too, they should encourage PvP, and there are things that can be done other than making them useless again.   The only thing that cracks me is up is how much you pretend that JK or any other kingdom with enough players and drive can't do the same things MR can, and blow up the WL, and get artifacts.    They are powerful for a reason, so people fight over them in-game, not the freaking forums.     Get it through your thick skulls and start playing a sandbox game and stop playing who can scream uncle the loudest.    

 

This is where you're going wrong. You're assuming this is a side vs side thing or that people want something nerfed just because their enemies have those items.

That's not what this is about at all. Even if they did go and get the artifacts as you suggest, they'd still be exactly as they are now, too powerful.

Why is this so hard to grasp? Everytime it gets said MR seem avoid retorting the point because it makes sense and there is no counter argument which I can imagine irks you guys quite a bit, so you usually start arguing about something else entirely until enough time has passed where you can say 'if you don't like it bash the lights' again without people noticing that you're just repeating yourselves with an irrelevant point.

 

Fix what's there, don't add more bandaids.

[Battlepaw 585]

This is where you're going wrong. You're assuming this is a side vs side thing or that people want something nerfed just because their enemies have those items.

That's not what this is about at all. Even if they did go and get the artifacts as you suggest, they'd still be exactly as they are now, too powerful.

Why is this so hard to grasp? Everytime it gets said MR seem avoid retorting the point because it makes sense and there is no counter argument which I can imagine irks you guys quite a bit, so you usually start arguing about something else entirely until enough time has passed where you can say 'if you don't like it bash the lights' again without people noticing that you're just repeating yourselves with an irrelevant point.

 

Fix what's there, don't add more bandaids.

 

I never said they wern't powerful, I've seen how much wreackage they do, and they are artifacts for crying out loud, they are supposed to be powerful and coveted.  What I'm saying is instead of trying to play the nerf/balance game with them like we do with everything else and usually make things worse we can use the mechanics differently.    

 

I've seen this crap go on before, and the whole seesaw thing is bullcrap.  I'm tried of those kinds of "fixes".     

[Argustin 249]

This is where you're going wrong. You're assuming this is a side vs side thing or that people want something nerfed just because their enemies have those items.

That's not what this is about at all. Even if they did go and get the artifacts as you suggest, they'd still be exactly as they are now, too powerful.

Why is this so hard to grasp? Everytime it gets said MR seem avoid retorting the point because it makes sense and there is no counter argument which I can imagine irks you guys quite a bit, so you usually start arguing about something else entirely until enough time has passed where you can say 'if you don't like it bash the lights' again without people noticing that you're just repeating yourselves with an irrelevant point.

 

Fix what's there, don't add more bandaids.

So everything one member says is MR now? Talk about making it KvK

[Propheteer 7,139]

I never said they wern't powerful, I've seen how much wreackage they do, and they are artifacts for crying out loud, they are supposed to be powerful and coveted.  What I'm saying is instead of trying to play the nerf/balance game with them like we do with everything else and usually make things worse we can use the mechanics differently.    

 

I've seen this crap go on before, and the whole seesaw thing is bullcrap.  I'm tried of those kinds of "fixes".     

 

I'm guessing meditation is supposed to be powerful and coveted too. You can't use the mechanics with artifacts differently, sure i can beat MR in an open field fight outnumbered any day of the week, doesn't make the artifacts not ######, just like it doesn't make SOTG not ######.

 

I've used the artifacts much longer than anyone in MR, and i have always held the opinion that the damage they do is ######.

 

 

So everything one member says is MR now? Talk about making it KvK

 

Or its all the people in the thread who are known to be in MR, with MR forum avatars saying the same thing and avoiding the argument.

[mthoodyn 56]

Didnt FO got hit hard and nerfed cause i Think Jen Kellon had most FO priests / Champs. Then it wasnt ok was it? then it wasnt about "worked hard to get it" or "if you dont like it go play Another game" or something else like that.

Btw Battlepaw you can say your 5 Word sentences without Writing a wall of text. We get it, you like how it is.

[Propheteer 7,139]

Didnt FO got hit hard and nerfed cause i Think Jen Kellon had most FO priests / Champs. Then it wasnt ok was it? then it wasnt about "worked hard to get it" or "if you dont like it go play Another game" or something else like that.

Btw Battlepaw you can say your 5 Word sentences without Writing a wall of text. We get it, you like how it is.

 

All priests were nerfed because some group of idiots on epic got mad that we 5v30'd, and 5v20'd them with a CR nerf. They wanted BL nerfed, so we wanted Fo nerfed, they said Fo wasn't as strong, and testing disproved that.

[mthoodyn 56]

Can someone Point Rolf to this thread ? I Think its important that he see how imbalanded this things like SOTG, Artis and Champs are.

[Battlepaw 585]

I'm guessing meditation is supposed to be powerful and coveted too. You can't use the mechanics with artifacts differently, sure i can beat MR in an open field fight outnumbered any day of the week, doesn't make the artifacts not ######, just like it doesn't make SOTG not ######.

 

I've used the artifacts much longer than anyone in MR, and i have always held the opinion that the damage they do is ######.

 

 

I see a lot of talk Propheteer, and not much going on.  I don't see JK trying to run the HOTA, even with their new foward base or trying to blow up the WL.     What I see is a lot of crying on the forums I'm glad you with them atm and actually prodding them into the HOTA area instead of how lethargic the kingdom has gotten recently.     

 

 

 

 

Or its all the people in the thread who are known to be in MR, with MR forum avatars saying the same thing and avoiding the argument.

 

Does my paticluar solution even seem to be close to what most of MR has been arguing over in this thread?    There have been more than one person in MR who has disagreed with my approach to the problem, yet you want to lump us all into some stupid fantasy sterotype.    It's much more convient that way isn't it?  

 

 

We get it, you like how it is.

 

If I liked how it was I wouldn't be trying to pose soulutions.     There are problems with how it is now, but trying to play a damage tweak seesaw game with the artifacts won't solve the problem, I've seen this crap in the past and It's the same thing as when we were going over the spell systems.     Your solution is to vaguely suggest that things should be removed and reverted to some sort days of 'yore crap.    I don't see that as a solution I see it as lazyness.   

 

 

All priests were nerfed because some group of idiots on epic got mad that we 5v30'd, and 5v20'd them with a CR nerf. They wanted BL nerfed, so we wanted Fo nerfed, they said Fo wasn't as strong, and testing disproved that.

 

Exactly what I mean, seesaw crap.    Whoever screams the loudest, and things hardly go the way people want.   I say lets work with what we have and make the PvP with artifacts less risky.  If they hit too hard, don't penalize people for dying to them, and encourage people to kill the carriers.    The artifact drops, no matter what, and the holder gets a res.    If you think a loot timer on the artifact is in order so be it, but in the end it encourages more risk on both the holder and on the attacker.   

Edited February 26, 2015 by Battlepaw

[mthoodyn 56]

Battlepaw why you make this KvK? get of your high horse and face that fact that in the end we are all Players, no matter kingdom. And I still chose to Believe that we all want to have fun in this game no matter if your jk,bl or mr. Or maybe you dont?

Edit: If you dont like how it is now how do you Think adding yet more imbalanced tweaks are going to correct the issue? its like the example i made 1 page back with the unique 1 hit kill weapon.

Fix the root of the problem! Should apply to Everything in wurmonline. Then we wouldnt have so messy stuff going on here ingame.

Edited February 26, 2015 by mthoodyn

[Argustin 249]

Battlepaw why you make this KvK? get of your high horse and face that fact that in the end we are all Players, no matter kingdom. And I still chose to Believe that we all want to have fun in this game no matter if your jk,bl or mr. Or maybe you dont?

 

This is where you're going wrong. You're assuming this is a side vs side thing or that people want something nerfed just because their enemies have those items.

That's not what this is about at all. Even if they did go and get the artifacts as you suggest, they'd still be exactly as they are now, too powerful.

Why is this so hard to grasp? Everytime it gets said MR seem avoid retorting the point because it makes sense and there is no counter argument which I can imagine irks you guys quite a bit, so you usually start arguing about something else entirely until enough time has passed where you can say 'if you don't like it bash the lights' again without people noticing that you're just repeating yourselves with an irrelevant point.

 

Fix what's there, don't add more bandaids.