Is it morally wrong to steal items in-game?

[Cecci 1,609]

As I see it the  worst moral low lifes are those that steal low ql items from newbies, and in many cases causing them to ragequit.
All because these newbies didn't understand to protect their stuff.

[Dame 144]

Strange question, since there is no stealing without moral wrongness, since the fact that it is morally wrong is it's main appeal.

 

The thrill comes from sneaking around my deed and pinching stuff while I am not looking. If I would hand you over the same items you would just be bored since It would miss the exitement of doing someting "illegal".

[Meldichoir 242]

Worm essentially does equate to "real life" in the sense that you spend your life playing it. The world itself is absolutely tangible, although others have just denied this fact. If you and others can visit a place, regardless of its 'location' in the world, then it is real. Physical material form is not required; some people believe that Heaven is real, but I submit that Wurm is more real because it has qualities and characteristics which can be documented and experienced by confirming individuals.

[Ayes 3,715]

Worm essentially does equate to "real life" in the sense that you spend your life playing it. The world itself is absolutely tangible, although others have just denied this fact. If you and others can visit a place, regardless of its 'location' in the world, then it is real. Physical material form is not required; some people believe that Heaven is real, but I submit that Wurm is more real because it has qualities and characteristics which can be documented and experienced by confirming individuals.

 

It is hard for me to even justify Wurm as an alternate reality, since I am viewing it from the outside in a physical body that has existed long before the game's creation and even its creators. Add onto that I must have a machine with an accompanying display to do so. When the day arrives that I can leave my physical presence out in this "real" world and enter into Wurm or any other online game, then the line between what is real and what is not will start to become indistinct.

 

Happy Trails

=Ayes=

[Mordraug 2,542]

Ok here's a more fitting IRL analogy.

 

If we have a Wurm meet, we all rent a paintball arena spot, rent our guns, everyone pays for his/her own ammo.

 

Between rounds when we're having fries and burgers, I "go to the bathroom" and start stealing ammo clips from people's bags.

 

It's just a game, right?

 

Even the cash figures match depends where you live.

[Meldichoir 242]

It is hard for me to even justify Wurm as an alternate reality, since I am viewing it from the outside in a physical body that has existed long before the game's creation and even its creators. Add onto that I must have a machine with an accompanying display to do so. When the day arrives that I can leave my physical presence out in this "real" world and enter into Wurm or any other online game, then the line between what is real and what is not will start to become indistinct.

Happy Trails

=Ayes=

[Stanlee 3,434]

My inner philosopher cries as you all presuppose morality.

[LorraineJ 1,099]

I think you missed the point. It is really more of a question of weather or not a virtual item has a real existence to merit morality. Then the original question still remains.

[Bloodscythe 2,225]

On the topic of ingame stealing, while in game wurm stole my time, stole my daydreams, and stole my willpower to push back the chair and step away from the keyboard.  It also stole my sense of "in all things moderation', some time slots meant for long country road running, stole my good eating habits and replaced them at times with with "wurmfood" quick grab lunchables.  Wurm has stolen sleep from me, and stole the life out of one laptop already.  Some bad things feel so good.

 

but i know one thing it can't take from me.  To use a quote shadowronin has used " you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the wurm outta me"

Edited March 3, 2015 by Bloodscythe

[Caveman 86]

Isn't game code a "virtual item," and MP3s "virtual items"?

Game code and MP3's are tradmarked, licensed, copyrighted, etc. They have true real world protection. The cart I stole from your deed does not have those. Step up your game.

[Mordraug 2,542]

Game code and MP3's are tradmarked, licensed, copyrighted, etc. They have true real world protection. The cart I stole from your deed does not have those. Step up your game.

 

So if I hack my way into your bank account and the bank finds no evidence, money's mine and it ain't theft?  Neat.

[Kammerz 69]

This thread makes me feel like I have to confess.

 

 

I found a wagon led by four bisons. It was unlocked.....

 

 

yeah....

 

 

 

 

 

 

I feel horrible so I've left it 40 tiles East of where I found it beside Vrock Landing.....   

 

 

I kinda lost a few bisons too....... sorry....

[Caveman 86]

So if I hack my way into your bank account and the bank finds no evidence, money's mine and it ain't theft?  Neat.

Of course it's theft, You have taken something that physically belongs to me that was being stored in a bank. You used electronic means to do so, but if you stole $1 from me by hacking my account that is one less dollar I have available to withdraw when I talk to the teller. How can you not see the difference?

Edited March 4, 2015 by Caveman

[LorraineJ 1,099]

Game code and MP3's are tradmarked, licensed, copyrighted, etc. They have true real world protection. The cart I stole from your deed does not have those. Step up your game.

[Mordraug 2,542]

Of course it's theft, You have taken something that physically belongs to me that was being stored in a bank. You used electronic means to do so, but if you stole $1 from me by hacking my account that is one less dollar I have available to withdraw when I talk to the teller. How can you not see the difference?

[LorraineJ 1,099]

My inner philosopher cries as you all presuppose morality.

 

My inner philosopher cries as we all presuppose reality.

[Meldichoir 242]

My inner philosopher cries as we all presuppose reality.

[Markcrow 107]

Basic rules of the game (including warnings built into the game) state that if an item is not locked up and/or deeded it may be taken by someone else. In fact, the first time you drop something a message pops up informing you of the fact that the item may be taken and requires your acceptance of that fact. Moral or not, if you don't follow the rules for safeguarding your items, it's your own fault if you lose them. That being said, if someone uses cheats and exploits to steal something from someone, and the victim has followed all the safety precautions, the rules are very clear about who is to blame and what actions might be taken against that person. It's very cut and dried. It isn't stealing if the safeguarding rules are not being followed, it's called paying the price for your own negligence.

[Mordraug 2,542]

So much desperation for the approval of theft in game... 

 

Why don't you children back your tough talk up and go rob someone in real life.  Get yourselves some street cred AND when you get caught, tell the judge that "it wasn't secured".

 

After all, only thing stopping you from robbing lots of IRL houses is a thin sheet of glass that can be broken with a relatively small pebble.

[Tuanta 484]

Responding to the title: "Is it morally wrong to steal items in-game?"

In a game where its items and currency directly relate to real world currency, most assuredly and without question; yes, it is wrong to steal on PVE. (If you're on PVP however, then you should anticipate it.)

If I forget to lock my car and someone steals it, its still theft.

 

Anyone saying anything different, is attempting to justify actions they have taken in the past or plan to in the future. "Or they're just being a troll."

 

 

PVE thieves should be immediately teleported to the middle of nowhere on Chaos and sever locked. "Yes, I promote PVP treasure hunts" /evilgrin

[Judicator 539]

"is it morally wrong to steal" ...thats what you asked, really? C'mon...

 

By that same idiotic line of though: All items and characters belong to code club. If you take an item from another player, it still belongs to code club. There is no stealing in wurm. It all belongs to code club under any circumstance.

[Mordraug 2,542]

By that same idiotic line of though: All items and characters belong to code club. If you take an item from another player, it still belongs to code club. There is no stealing in wurm. It all belongs to code club under any circumstance.

 

Which works nicely until CodeClub starts losing players because of imbeciles and their equally idiotic supporters driving the legitimate players away.  So technically, you're robbing CodeClub of its customer base through sheer asshattery when robbing someone ingame.

[Greyfox 427]

By that same idiotic line of though: All items and characters belong to code club. If you take an item from another player, it still belongs to code club. There is no stealing in wurm. It all belongs to code club under any circumstance.

Your argument forgets that there is legal precedent of courts recognizing a players ownership of virtual goods. Edited March 9, 2015 by Greyfox

[LorraineJ 1,099]

Reality:

-A thing that is actually experienced or seen.

-A thing that exists in fact, having previously only existed in one's mind.

-The quality of being lifelike or resembling an original.

Because we are all "here" discussing this world, I would have to say that it is not a figment of my immagination. Either that, or I am immaging this whole forum...

 

I wasn't disagreeing. And I'm not saying I fully understand it. But we are all imagining all of it.

[Stanlee 3,434]

Can someone tell me when an action is immoral? Any action.

Can morality be reduced to a few key elements?

 

Is it simply obeying the law or rules?

 

My own attempts to even begin to scratch the surface of OP's question took me, almost immediately, to Lawrence Kohlberg's stages of moral development.

He would argue (though I have never found from what basis - merely a correlation from age in results appears to be his guide) that moral actions are merely actions carried out with justice as the key. From an evolutionary standpoint, that rings true; morality is a tool to preserve social structures though I doubt anyone would want to be brutally honest enough as to say that actions which are moral are those which preserve social structures and order.

 

This links back to Wurm rather nicely. Wurm (especially Freedom) is social. I doubt a great many of us log on just to grind. Stealing causes distrust and a sense of violation. I would argue that this distrust and the bile that comes with it - not the value of items you have lost - is what makes stealing wrong. Even on the PvP servers, in stealing from your own side, you are damaging unity within your side for your own gain. That you have weakened part of your own side is a lesser issue. This is why stealing from other teams is so non-issue (when monetary value arguments would have it be morally wrong) - you're not trying to create a sense of unity with them.

 

So yes. Stealing is morally wrong, but not because of the 1s and 0s the OP frames it in, but the cost to the wellbeing of the social environment.

But the conclusion of "morally wrong" itself, and how moral wrongs should be treated, is a whole other matter.