Mining/Lowering rock and clay under water

[Ohana 907]

At some point a change was made. You can surface mine at -23(?) Which is 2 deeper then you can open a tunnel at.

[Laiwyn 188]

At some point a change was made. You can surface mine at -23(?) Which is 2 deeper then you can open a tunnel at.

 

No way?! This is great news, thanks.

[JakeRivers 2,921]

No way?! This is great news, thanks.

 

 

Not exactly great news, I did this a few days ago when I was making the canal leading up to my boat mine. I surfaced mined the canal nice and flat and deep. I then created the mine entrance. We entered the mine and found that you could not mine beyond the entrance, up or straight, as you get the message 'you can not mine at this depth'.

 

We then tunneled from the inside of the mine right to the cave entrance. From the inside we got the same message when trying to mine straight or down. I then mined the floor down to as deep as I could go, hoping that once done we could finish opening up the mine. That did not work either, we had to get a priest in to collapse the mine entrance we made and start over.

[Laiwyn 188]

Not exactly great news, I did this a few days ago when I was making the canal leading up to my boat mine. I surfaced mined the canal nice and flat and deep. I then created the mine entrance. We entered the mine and found that you could not mine beyond the entrance, up or straight, as you get the message 'you can not mine at this depth'.

 

We then tunneled from the inside of the mine right to the cave entrance. From the inside we got the same message when trying to mine straight or down. I then mined the floor down to as deep as I could go, hoping that once done we could finish opening up the mine. That did not work either, we had to get a priest in to collapse the mine entrance we made and start over.

 

Well, the standard practice of creating these boat mines is to create the entrance from within the mine. As for getting that error message, I imagine it could be avoided by making sure all of the tiles in the vicinity of the entrance (within the cave) are mined down as far as they can go before creating the entrance. Either way, this is still great news considering that sculpting wands are unnecessary for creating mine entrances of sufficient depth for larger ships.

[Jonas 18]

+1 when it comes to clay any increase of player control is welcome.

[Zcul 303]

Hi sorry but I need to understand the request a bit more, please confirm :-)

 

I can lower clay by using the level function but only to a specific depth for smaller boats.

 

I can't lower clay with any other means?

 

How about allowing dredging of clay tiles under water to lower the clay level to the same maximum depth as when dredging dirt?

[Audrel 2,223]

Hi sorry but I need to understand the request a bit more, please confirm :-)

 

I can lower clay by using the level function but only to a specific depth for smaller boats.

 

I can't lower clay with any other means?

 

How about allowing dredging of clay tiles under water to lower the clay level to the same maximum depth as when dredging dirt?

 

I think what she is talking about, Zcul, is an area in front of a friend's deed was "drop raised" and it is entirely of clay. I have the digging needed to level it down but can only level it so far, which is not far enough for a Corbita to cross it. If it was of dirt, it's not an issue. Being of clay, the depth I can go with a shovel and that's that. I can't return the sea floor to where it was. Anyone can raise clay to as high as they can pile dirt. No one can lower it below shovel digging level and you have to have pretty high digging skills to even be able to lower it to that level. 

 

I can understand concerns that someone could grief clay beds by lowering them if allowed but with no skill at all required to raise them, I can't see it being a widespread issue. The landbridge, intentional or not, that was placed in front of her deed is there to stay because of the clay digging mechanics. We have no way to remove a section of it.

[Zcul 303]

Actually this seem to be a bug here, where the clay level is supposed to lower every 10th dig or so but it isn't.

 

I guess fixing the bug would solve the issue about lowering clay tiles, but at the same time it changes ancient and old game mechanics.

 

I guess the result could be you'd have to top up your clay tiles with dirt as you dig them out...

[Fairyshine 3,183]

Hello Zcul, how about leaving the game mechanics as it is but instead giving players the opportunity to actually lower clay with say dredges, once you dig underwater past the shovel depth?  We don't have any way of lowering raised clay deeper than a shovel under water, so no ship deeper than a knarr can ever again pass over where clay has been raised.

 

The other issue with clay is that you can't tile it or pave it, so wherever it is found in very large continuous patches along the water edge you can only flatraise it for coastal roads, you cannot really pave those roads to make it faster or easier to travel by, you can't build a house on clay nor can you plant anything on it.  Due to these reasons it would also be a great idea if we could allow priests a spell to change clay tiles into say dirt, and the other way around, if you want to ensure it only happens at or in water make it so the dirt into clay option only works where water is present.  This will then take care of the fact that we cannot lower clay, as we can change it into dirt using a priest and lower it with dredges as per usual.

[Audrel 2,223]

Actually this seem to be a bug here, where the clay level is supposed to lower every 10th dig or so but it isn't.

 

I guess fixing the bug would solve the issue about lowering clay tiles, but at the same time it changes ancient and old game mechanics.

 

I guess the result could be you'd have to top up your clay tiles with dirt as you dig them out...

 

Actually, that has been happening in some places. If the clay tile is 1x1, it is. I actually thought THAT was the bug!

[Zcul 303]

Ya allow clay dredge to lower tile under water at higher digging skills could work.

You could always raise it to above surface level to get it "normal" if you wanted to...

 

How deep is "a shovel under water" btw? Are you lowering it using some sort of technique with the Level method?

 

I doubt we will allow priests to convert clay tiles or allow paving on clay. Too many exploits/grief scenarios on that one. Clay is important resource after all!

/Andreas

[Kegan 3,926]

Not sure how feasible this would be but maybe you can add in a dig_down option to things like clay, peat. moss..etc that way you can either modify the tile or just dig for resources. 

[Audrel 2,223]

Ya allow clay dredge to lower tile under water at higher digging skills could work.

You could always raise it to above surface level to get it "normal" if you wanted to...

 

How deep is "a shovel under water" btw? Are you lowering it using some sort of technique with the Level method?

 

I doubt we will allow priests to convert clay tiles or allow paving on clay. Too many exploits/grief scenarios on that one. Clay is important resource after all!

/Andreas

 

Using level from an adjacent tile. You can hit 3 clay tiles in front from a centered tile beside them. Level the one left and right and the center is leveled by default. I would always work in a checkerboard pattern. You cut out 1/3 of the work. :-P

 

Making a dredge at +10 higher skill could be a thing. You need 70 to alter clay with a shovel.

 

I believe the max is 10? I honestly thought the 10 digs and a clay drop thing was a bug and avoided doing it when I saw it happen. If it is intended, then I can stop worrying about that.

Edited July 20, 2015 by Audrel

[Ohana 907]

I'm all for "do more" not more restrictions.

A spell that would let you remove clay as long as one border touch clay. The same spell used on a dirt tile would make a clay tile as long as one border touched clay or water.

More options/resources not less.

[Daolin 894]

I'm all for "do more" not more restrictions.

A spell that would let you remove clay as long as one border touch clay. The same spell used on a dirt tile would make a clay tile as long as one border touched clay or water.

More options/resources not less.

 

No... being able to create clay tiles is bad.

[Lotus1 315]

No... being able to create clay tiles is bad.

 

True. That has griefing potential written all over it.

[Fairyshine 3,183]

Most things we can do in Wurm has griefing potential:  We can all dig (so can dig holes around deeds or dig down any raised area), we can all drop dirt (so can raise clay tiles to lock deeds in behind them or make huge dirt walls around deeds),  we can build stone buildings and fences (to surround deeds in with), we can all all make locks (so can lock bsbs, carts, gates...), we can kite monsters, we can mine, and not only that, we can mine down or up (to mess up public mines), we can create mine doors (to steal public mines), we can change dirt into sand and vice versa (to have huge desert areas instead of forests), we can plant trees and thorns (to take away tundra, steppe and deserts), we can build ugly as buildings (or we may think they are pretty but others see it as ugly), we can destroy pavement (and roads), ....the list goes on and on.  More specifically to priests:  They can kill animals from a distance (so can kill your cart animals or fences of critters), they can change rock to lava, they can strongwall, they can randomly create dirt, they can enchant trees ...their list is fairly long too.  Yet I see only a small minority of players abusing the game mechanics to grief others.  I would imagine that with cool down periods and larger amount of favor needed, no priest is just going to stand at a deed and randomly create clay to grief, as it would be fairly obvious this is happening.  However, even if this happens, other players have the means to change it back.  Currently, anyone can raise clay to above water, but nobody else can lower it back sufficiently for large ships to pass over that area ever again.  This, to me, has greater griefing potential than allowing clay to be turned into dirt or vice versa.

[Osiris 15]

Time to get the ability to lower clay. +1

[elf 156]

Bump to this, the same clay bank in front of that deed is still causing strife.  Please allow clay to be lowered.  The same potential for griefing exists as long as we allow clay to be raised by dropping dirt yet not lowered in the same fashion, especially by dredging, as that means that once a clay tile has been raised, it will stay highish forever and thus effectively block ships like caravels that need a deep water to pass.

 

Please look into this suggestion.

[Fairyshine 3,183]

BUMP to allowing clay to be dredged.  It makes no sense that we can raise it (even noobies with no idea what they are doing dropping dirts while they run away from a rat), but we can't ever lower it to sufficient depth to allow ships to pass over it.  There is an area I know of where a deed owner did not want ships to just easily get to his deed so he raised the clay around his deed only allowing a small access which he knew about, but all the other bigger/deeper ships constantly get stuck there.  The owner of the deed moved on long ago, but the clay stays and people who sail there get stuck...forever?!  Please allow us to not only lower clay to shovel depth below water, but also dredge it so deeper ships can pass over it again.

Thanks.

[Steveleeb 1,067]

+1.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 2, 2016 by Steveleeb

[Steveleeb 1,067]

On 08/07/2015 at 4:08 PM, Ohana said:

At some point a change was made. You can surface mine at -23(?) Which is 2 deeper then you can open a tunnel at.

I just tested it... I've been surface mining a canal / moat down to 24 depth.
I intend on making a mine / cavern underneath the platform it surrounds so the question arose, can u make a mine entrance at 24 depth.

Turns out you can, it allowed me to tunnel. Which i assume means it'll allow an entrance to form.
i was also able to lay concrete at 24 depth... I found a forum thread from 2013 saying you couldnt do that at 25 depth  this, i haven't tested.

just a little (ninja) update.

Back to the thread... -

20 hours ago, Fairyshine said:

BUMP to allowing clay to be dredged.

Edited February 2, 2016 by Steveleeb

[Ayes 3,715]

A good and needed suggestion as in the OP. Allowing players to craft some special tool to do these actions is fitting. Tie this into 70 digging to use it and maybe 70 carpentry to craft it and you have it skill based for at least some higher levels yet not out of reach.

 

*Just read above that you can now surface mine down to about 24 deep. Nice but mmm you can't regain stamina way before that depth eh? Must be the worst surface mining that can be done then in terms of time spent.*

 

=Ayes=

Edited February 2, 2016 by Ayes

[Steveleeb 1,067]

2 hours ago, Ayes said:

*Just read above that you can now surface mine down to about 24 deep. Nice but mmm you can't regain stamina way before that depth eh?

timespent = 40% nil stamina if you're clever. 60% if you're  lazy or non-attentive (from 45 above water)
 

2 hours ago, Ayes said:

Must be the worst surface mining that can be done then in terms of time spent.*

not sure. thankfully this is the first major bit of surface mining ive ever done, fables of horror have prepared me well.
it's fine if you're committed with no expectations of time. rare pick helps.
.. the best thing is, u don't have to worry about measuring, when it's too deep to mine.. it stops at 24.

Clay;

2 hours ago, Ayes said:

A good and needed suggestion as in the OP. Allowing players to craft some special tool to do these actions is fitting. Tie this into 70 digging to use it and maybe 70 carpentry to craft it and you have it skill based for at least some higher levels yet not out of reach.

 

Edited February 3, 2016 by Steveleeb