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Uberknot

Why are there no Hota type Statues for PvE events?

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OH YEAH, WELL YOUR A BIG FRIGGIN BU-- I mean, I guess I haven't personally seen it myself either, but I've certainly heard concerns. Freedom is seemingly the most populated server cluster, yet it's also the newest (and the only PvE-exclusive server).

 

I don't see Chaos dying any time soon, we have pretty stable population, better than many of the PvE servers.   Not as populated, but we have a large part of our population in the Freedom servers.     Certaintly it's a bad time to try to claim it's dying out, as PvP is actually picking up at the moment.     

 

I've never really seen any proof that Rolf himself actually plays on PvP servers very actively.   He's known to have tried out his Epic cluster, but that's about it, and it was quite some time ago.   The way you make it sound, you are paying too much attention to Wurm Rumormill Inc. and less into what you can actually verify.    Much of this whole topic is endless speculation by freedom members that seem to know everything about PvP, but don't actually know what is going on nor how much of the actual pvp works.     From what I've seen there is a lot of confusion and accusation in this topic, to the point where it's not en a debate, its just a lynch mob trying to find any justification to take out their frustrations on players who are scratching their heads trying to figure out just how far the rabbit hole of ignorance goes and trying to clarify things.  

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I don't see Chaos dying any time soon, we have pretty stable population, better than many of the PvE servers.   Not as populated, but we have a large part of our population in the Freedom servers.     Certaintly it's a bad time to try to claim it's dying out, as PvP is actually picking up at the moment.     

 

I've never really seen any proof that Rolf himself actually plays on PvP servers very actively.   He's known to have tried out his Epic cluster, but that's about it, and it was quite some time ago.   The way you make it sound, you are paying too much attention to Wurm Rumormill Inc. and less into what you can actually verify.    Much of this whole topic is endless speculation by freedom members that seem to know everything about PvP, but don't actually know what is going on nor how much of the actual pvp works.     From what I've seen there is a lot of confusion and accusation in this topic, to the point where it's not en a debate, its just a lynch mob trying to find any justification to take out their frustrations on players who are scratching their heads trying to figure out just how far the rabbit hole of ignorance goes and trying to clarify things.

Okay, granted, I've never played a PvP server and might've gotten a little carried away with that theory. But I guess one thread title I've heard sums up the theory rather well - "PvP is dying (at least, Epic is)". While Chaos may have a stable community of regulars, it's a bit of a PvP enclave in a primarily PvE cluster. Granted, plenty of Chaos players likely go back and forth to enjoy both PvP and PvE, but it feels like this outlook is still cause for alarm with some. Then again, while many take PvP and PvE to be as distinct as the words "competitive" and "co-operative", the developers may just see PvE to be Wurm with the PvP mechanics disabled (though I certainly hope not; otherwise the conflict behind this thread is liable to erupt forth as an all out civil war o.o).

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Epic is certainly not dying, Elevation hit 65 players the other day and frequently is now hitting the 40s peak times after the usual yearly winter drought, which may not sound like much but then you realize Epic is split into 4 servers which jkh/mrh can often add another 30-60+, and blh is like 20-30?


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Epic is certainly not dying, Elevation hit 65 players the other day and frequently is now hitting the 40s peak times after the usual yearly winter drought, which may not sound like much but then you realize Epic is split into 4 servers which jkh/mrh can often add another 30-60+, and blh is like 20-30?

Well, glancing at the servers right now, it seems the Epic cluster hold a total population of 77 while PvE (even excluding that of chaos) has 405 (which is a bit over five times that o.o). Then again, I guess you brought up the four servers for a reason. Come to think of it, maybe the thread or two I'm remembering were driven by feelings similar to those behind this thread? It almost feels like there's a fun point in that... Whatever the case, as prevalent as the opinion is that PvP needs incentive to draw players, I guess I should apologize for sounding a bit too certain ^^;

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I don't get what you mean "Economic advantage".   Most of the actual advantage we get from the proceeds doesn't affect the PvE servers in any way.   We don't try to corner the market on anything, nor do we use the proceeds to bid on anything on the Freedom market.   MR's accounting is published and distributed for all members, and looking through it, its clear most of that clearly goes into help supporting our war effort here and take some burden off of all our war deeds.     I've tried to convince our kingdom to use the proceeds we get in euros to purchase accounts to train as Fo priests, but our leadership has wisely chosen to make sure we store the extra up and put it into the kingdom, and encourage players to actively train up their accounts to be Fo priests.    I can't see in any way how it ever impacts the lives of freedom players other than we are the chief supplier at the moment.   As far as I can tell, we have gone above and beyond the call of duty, in our deliveries and prompt service.

 

Even if we did, it does not destroy the economy, it is adding the money you pay us to go into purchasing goods from Freedom.   Money is already going back into the pockets to players on Freedom, as it stands the more statues that end up on freedom the more statues that Freedom players can trade and sell on their own.   I've seen many people buy our statues then turn around and resell them later to make a profit.    Right now the only reason price is staying constant is because the demand is so high, as saturation gets more intense, the price will do nothing but go down.  That's basic economics for you.   

 

Within your post here you have described your "economic advantage" in various ways due to these Hota statues being able to be imported into the PvE servers for sale. Simply put, buying power that through the sale of these objects the PvE server occupants do not have and the opportunity for any of them who have not the slightest desire to participate within pvp will not have. A very nice exclusive benefit for groups of pvp players who organize to win these Hota events upon Chaos.

 

Does in the end this even encourage others to join in pvp. Highly doubtful, as it just benefits a few organized groups there who undoubtedly are quite pleased to have these exclusive items, that any of the more common and independent PvE players who in turn desire them would have to purchase for inflated amounts. I find it laughable that anyone would pay these prices anyway, as I certainly never have or will. This just encourages more of these pvp "perks", which are again being rolled out within the newest pvp environment of the Challenge server and surprise, surprise, again being sold for mind boggling (look it up, very appropriate) prices.

 

=Ayes=

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oh why not pve hota zone on xanadu :D   double size area, half size hota size statues...    like wooden statues :D   everyone happy :D

 

Because it is closer to travel to Chaos even if you live on Xanadu? It would only be camped by those who happen to live less than 15 min travel from the place. 

 

I think it would need to be some special mini server (battlefield) that you can travel to by portal, like Epic starter deed portals but buildable anywhere.  Could be pretty cool actually.  

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Within your post here you have described your "economic advantage" in various ways due to these Hota statues being able to be imported into the PvE servers for sale. Simply put, buying power that through the sale of these objects the PvE server occupants do not have and the opportunity for any of them who have not the slightest desire to participate within pvp will not have. A very nice exclusive benefit for groups of pvp players who organize to win these Hota events upon Chaos.

 

Does in the end this even encourage others to join in pvp. Highly doubtful, as it just benefits a few organized groups there who undoubtedly are quite pleased to have these exclusive items, that any of the more common and independent PvE players who in turn desire them would have to purchase for inflated amounts. I find it laughable that anyone would pay these prices anyway, as I certainly never have or will. This just encourages more of these pvp "perks", which are again being rolled out within the newest pvp environment of the Challenge server and surprise, surprise, again being sold for mind boggling (look it up, very appropriate) prices.

 

=Ayes=

 

It does encourage people to join in PvP, if you don't think so talk to the JK, they are starting to get more active and getting ready to push towards the HOTA themselves.   It benefits whoever wants to take them, and if they don't want to run the HOTA themselves, they can try and ambush the ones that do.    Who knows, the HOTA may come under new management someday, but not without us kicking butt, and fighting for every inch, enjoying each pvp moment of trying to keep what's in our control.   That is Chaos. I've been here for years bub, and nothing is more fun when we have a challenge, which is happening right now.    

 

So what, you don't think players should be rewarded for doing anything but sitting in the PvE servers pounding away?  That's both self-centered and short-sighted.    There is no endgame to Wurm, but there is another way to play it.   Part of that participation is being able to do something you can't do on Freedom.   

 

Each part of that listed is only an economic advantage within the PvP servers.  We are not the exclusive owners of HOTA statues, thanks to players from both MR and JK that have been distributing them for a long time, there are many owners on Freedom, who exchange the things often as much as we sell them.   Either way, it may sound harsh, but I really don't care.   The hota statues may bring us some income, but we bust our backs getting them to you and try to sell for a reasonable price, it's a player driven economy, and if we wanted to we could cut off the HOTA trade and wait until the price is driven back up and then sell them to you.  That is twerking economic advantage and I don't see us lording it over you guys.   Instead what I have observed since we got a good crew working on the resale of the things, we have been offering a fair price, and often very long deliveries.

 

It's quite pathetic, really.    Every time some new shiny thing comes along, or someone is making a lot of money it doesn't matter who it is.  If dragons were still harvested in captivity, you would be complaining about that.    And you wonder why many of us hold people that go on on about this stupid stuff in complete contempt.  It's those players that don't see the game as a player driven world, where you can play different ways and enjoy the game in different aspect, but as some sort of totem pole you want to climb to try to keep score by how many shines you have.  

 

At the end of the day, all they are is a bunch of pixels.    I just don't understand why you have so much misplaced envy over the stupid crap, or over players supporting their PvP on Chaos by selling a resource to Freedom, to help support their community by easing the burden of the cost of war deeds, etc. If you want to put a value in them, put the value a decorative item deserves on a server where you treasure them for what they are.   They represent our hard work and what each player on freedom wants to pay for them in return.    

 

Have fun, and enjoy the game and stop being gits.     

Edited by Battlepaw
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Within your post here you have described your "economic advantage" in various ways due to these Hota statues being able to be imported into the PvE servers for sale. Simply put, buying power that through the sale of these objects the PvE server occupants do not have and the opportunity for any of them who have not the slightest desire to participate within pvp will not have. A very nice exclusive benefit for groups of pvp players who organize to win these Hota events upon Chaos.

 

Does in the end this even encourage others to join in pvp. Highly doubtful, as it just benefits a few organized groups there who undoubtedly are quite pleased to have these exclusive items, that any of the more common and independent PvE players who in turn desire them would have to purchase for inflated amounts. I find it laughable that anyone would pay these prices anyway, as I certainly never have or will. This just encourages more of these pvp "perks", which are again being rolled out within the newest pvp environment of the Challenge server and surprise, surprise, again being sold for mind boggling (look it up, very appropriate) prices.

 

=Ayes=

 

In terms of HOTA participation, there are many many many goals on wild, HOTA is one of them.

 

For instance, JK after a period of inactivity. Did we care about hota a week ago? More than likely not, we were more concerned with rebuilding and securing what we had to prepare for HOTA when we cared about it. The statues aren't really for exclusive groups in the slightest, both MR and JK welcome many people that barely play on the server for several reasons. 1. People, people are always nice. Fun to meet, new perspectives, all of that. 2. People can turn out to be a big help someday, and they might become permanent inhabitants. 3. Publicity, bad or good.

 

If you have a genuine interest in attempting a HOTA and are willing to take advice, i can pretty much guarantee you will find a kingdom that will take you in, the problem comes in with this, what players like Uberknot say don't exist, is the risk. The kingdom that is chosen may not currently control HOTA, or may not control HOTA one week, one month, one year down the line. However, if it does have control, you will find most people on the server are incredibly helpful and welcoming and for contributions you would more than likely get a statue if you asked if you spent like a week helping people out over here with menial tasks, you don't even have to PvP, you just play.

 

A lot of people don't realize this, the people that want to join in on PvP always join in on PvP, nobody is forced to. Hell, there are players in MR and JK that i don't think i have seen on a tab or at an event in like six-seven years, but they play, and they help, and they are rewarded the same as someone like me who goes out of his way to attend every PvP event. The statues are not exclusive by any means, the only limiting factor is a few days over here, five questions, and a good attitude on top of the sail. That's like saying going to the dentist is exclusive because you have to fill out paperwork and get in the car to go to/from.

 

 

The income from the HOTA statues is negligible, it can be considered helpful sure, but its by no means a game changer, and in response to the statement of bad experiences and something people should know about is that every kingdom on Chaos is different. Every kingdom on Chaos handles everything differently, they all have differently personalities and leadership and channels and all of that, but the core values of rewarding those who contribute is the same for every single one i can assure you.

Edited by Propheteer
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Propheteer touched on a concept, that I think is the core of Chaos.   I'm one of those players that has mostly sat on the sidelines for a long time, I'm not known in my kingdom as an A-lister, or someone you see out fighting every day, but my name is often there on raids and almost always helping to rebuild, and aid new players.   I work the game for the community I share, and I don't think there is anyone here that personally profit from things like the HOTA sales, because everything we do as a community we do to help ourselves out.   This means sharing resources from the HOTA, and send the proceeds to ease burdens on players supporting war deeds, it means working as a team to take down our enemies.   


 


If we didn't operate like that, we wouldn't survive on Chaos.    We wouldn't be there to pick our friends up off their feet when an enemy ravages one of our deeds, or to help some poor sap like me drag their body away from an unlucky toss down a mountain by a Nogump.    We got each other's backs when we need help, and fight side by side, and enjoy the PvP where we can find it, which is quite sparse when population is low.  I mean hell it was like that long before there was a HOTA, but I do like running it.   I don't do it for that statues,  and I'm lousy as heck at finding the dang pillars anyways.  I go there because my kingdom needs me there to help them out and It's one more body that can help respond to an ambush.  

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It's pretty simple. Not every server should have the same exact rewards or else there would be 0 reason to even play on chaos at that point. PVE has it's advantages which people asked for... I believe someone mentioned it, when challenging events came into question PVE just wanted to play the simple life and be left alone to build, that's exactly what they got. Now they are getting treasure hunts which IMO they don't really deserve considering the fact PVE has a lot in terms of uniques. With no thing at all to risk.

I'm not saying the whole game should be a risk vs reward but having some differences between servers is a good thing.

Lastly, as propheteer mentioned, nothing is stopping freedomers who would like to get their hands on a statue from coming to chaos and helping out in some way. And no one is saying that if you come to chaos you have to come geared. If the feeling of losing some armor is to much to handle every single kingdom on chaos will put armor on your back and tools in your hands.

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Well, glancing at the servers right now, it seems the Epic cluster hold a total population of 77 while PvE (even excluding that of chaos) has 405 (which is a bit over five times that o.o). Then again, I guess you brought up the four servers for a reason. Come to think of it, maybe the thread or two I'm remembering were driven by feelings similar to those behind this thread? It almost feels like there's a fun point in that... Whatever the case, as prevalent as the opinion is that PvP needs incentive to draw players, I guess I should apologize for sounding a bit too certain ^^;

 

You're posting at 2am est, a bad time for pvp players.  At 4pm est, not even peak time for pvpers

 

Serenity players 40/400

Desertion players 32/400

Affliction players 26/400

Elevation players 30/400

 

Now lets pick 4 freedom servers

 

Deliverance players 58/400

Exodus players 50/800

Celebration players 40/400

Release players 58/400

 

128 pvp vs 206 pve, naturally everyone knows pve will have more.  But that's only roughly 1.6x more?  Numbers are fun to manipulate in your favor

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You're posting at 2am est, a bad time for pvp players.  At 4pm est, not even peak time for pvpers

 

Serenity players 40/400

Desertion players 32/400

Affliction players 26/400

Elevation players 30/400

 

Now lets pick 4 freedom servers

 

Deliverance players 58/400

Exodus players 50/800

Celebration players 40/400

Release players 58/400

 

128 pvp vs 206 pve, naturally everyone knows pve will have more.  But that's only roughly 1.6x more?  Numbers are fun to manipulate in your favor

 

 

LOL PvE vastly outnumber all PvP players any day I don't care how you spin it.....indy and xanadu right now 400+

 

It's not even close.

 

This is why there must be comparable content added for the vast majority of players.

 

As it stands right now it stinks of favoritism.

Edited by Uberknot
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LOL PvE vastly outnumber all PvP players any day I don't care how you spin it.....indy and xanadu right now 400+

 

It's not even close.

 

This is why there must must comparable content added for the vast majority of players.

 

As it stands right now it stinks of favoritism.

Clearly since everyone uses horses we should spend development time on improving the efficiency of carts and horse shoes.

Those clunky noisy "Automobile" metal behemoths is used barely by anyone!

 

Look at these graphs:

[insert graph here]

 

 

 

Uberknot wurms pvp is subpar to a lot of other games, yet alot of its other features stand out becouse they have a lot of development spent on them.

A lot of non-wurm gamers look at wurms pvp and go "roflmao that seems to suck hard, not gonna bother with that game".

If Rolf could tap into the tremendously large pvp mmo gamer market the profits could be tremendous.

 

TLDR: Don't diss the automobile just cuz you use horses.

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