Armor and Archery Nerfs

[MrGARY 12,421]

Heavy armor with archery and casting should have a penalty its the right call imho.

[Kagrenac 812]

Heavy armor with archery and casting should have a penalty its the right call imho.

[JukimoV2 30]

to be fair tho. The fact that I could kill someone wearing full plate 70+ql with archery from 100-0 in just a couple arrows while wearing armor was pretty silly

 

Taking the armor off provides a nice trade off risk. Altho it is pretty silly how much it nerfs it.

[SotG_is_OP 357]

to be fair tho. The fact that I could kill someone wearing full plate 70+ql with archery from 100-0 in just a couple arrows while wearing armor was pretty silly

[Kaldari 53]

The tower guards on Indy wear an open helm (plate), chain jacket, sleeves and leggings/trousers (I`m British and refuse to call them pants),  leather boots, and no gloves/gauntlets at all. This choice of armour is actually pretty good for an archer because they have full dexterity in their hands, and very little restriction in visibility.

 

After doing a bit of googling I came across:

http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=15336

and

http://www.thescienceforum.com/history/35698-using-bow-full-plate-armor.html

 

So trying to use a bow while wearing chain gloves should be difficult, and almost impossible with plate gauntlets, since you can`t really handle the bow and arrow properly, and wearing a great helm should make aiming difficult because you can`t move your head and neck enough to sight down the arrow.

But chain or plate on the chest, legs or feet shouldn`t really affect bow use, just mobility and speed.

 

Realistically, arrows didn`t penetrate plate very often, if at all, but were very good at piercing chain, and bringing down the horses of those heavily plated knights. But this is a fantasy computer game, so... *shrug*

[Madt 1,178]

Sometimes realism doesn't belong in wurm when having that realism ruins gameplay.

 

Wearing studded means you'll be killed very, very quickly. It's really bad armour for PvP. PvE it might be ok, but in PvP anyone seen wearing studded armour would be the number 1 target in a group of enemies. The armour is just too poor for protection against players, so nobody uses it because they don't want to die.

 

Chains a little bit better protection from studded I think, but it's also very heavy, so wearing it means you'll be slow. Slow movement + Not very good armour protection = very quick death. You won't be able to run away after a hard hit or two due to hurting status ontop of the slow movement speed from chain. You'll be slow and easily taken down by your enemies.

 

Plate is very slow, but offers enough protection to warrant it I think.

 

Also, this is the wrong way to go about things. If you see that for some reason people in your game aren't using a certain type of item, weapon or armour. You don't make it so they're forced to use those things by adding odd things such as this penalty. You find out why they aren't using them and make them worth using again by fixing them.

 

Basically, instead of trying to force people to use the lighter armours by making heavy armours suck at spell casting and archery, find out why they're not using the lighter armours and use that feedback to make them better so people will automatically want to use them.

I'm not saying make them terrific, but make them worth it.

[dapperdan 18]

i kinda like the buff for light armour though so +1 for removing the debuff on heavy armour

but maybe keep the buffs on light armour?

[dapperdan 18]

The tower guards on Indy wear an open helm (plate), chain jacket, sleeves and leggings/trousers (I`m British and refuse to call them pants),  leather boots, and no gloves/gauntlets at all. This choice of armour is actually pretty good for an archer because they have full dexterity in their hands, and very little restriction in visibility.

 

After doing a bit of googling I came across:

http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=15336

and

http://www.thescienceforum.com/history/35698-using-bow-full-plate-armor.html

 

So trying to use a bow while wearing chain gloves should be difficult, and almost impossible with plate gauntlets, since you can`t really handle the bow and arrow properly, and wearing a great helm should make aiming difficult because you can`t move your head and neck enough to sight down the arrow.

But chain or plate on the chest, legs or feet shouldn`t really affect bow use, just mobility and speed.

 

Realistically, arrows didn`t penetrate plate very often, if at all, but were very good at piercing chain, and bringing down the horses of those heavily plated knights. But this is a fantasy computer game, so... *shrug*

 

i like the idea but instead of making it harder in plate just make it easier in light armour perhaps?

 

and also realistically a longbow and war arrows could pierce plate pretty efficiently i think. youre british but you dont know the battle of agincourt?

Edited March 1, 2015 by dapperdan

[Kaldari 53]

and also realistically a longbow and war arrows could pierce plate pretty efficiently i think. youre british but you dont know the battle of agincourt?

[Kagrenac 812]

Depends on what you mean by "ruins gameplay"? Combat is all about rock/paper/scissors, making sacrifices and compromises to fill a role. Mounted knights are vulnerable to massed infantry who are in turn vulnerable to archers who get run over by mobile knights on horseback. If a single unit type could fill every required role in a military situation then we wouldn`t see the variation that we do.

At the moment, everyone wears plate because it`s the highest protection of the commonly available armours, with no real drawbacks. If you can use a longbow or cast wearing plate as easily as you can when wearing leather then there is no reason to bother with leather at all.

[SotG_is_OP 357]

The wurmpedia lists a lot of information about the armour types, their vulnerabilities and effects on walking and attack speed.. I`m guessing from the way you`ve worded your post that you haven`t read it in a while?

 

Herein lies the problem. The wiki is so outdated and just flat out wrong about so many things because there is no developer confirmation of anything. They even had to reword the definition of exploit because people were using features creatively and they couldn&%

Edited March 2, 2015 by SotG_is_OP

[Kaldari 53]

And people still only wear plate despite the archery nerf/spellcasting nerf.

 

Wearing other armors is not at all viable when the damage reduction/glance rate is so low.

If you wear leather/chain you will die in a couple arrows, and take a lot more damage then if you wear plate.

 

The only role is wurm is "mounted knight in plate", which is strong vs everything.

 

Even if it was like that with bonuses/penalties depending on what is armored, if you used leather for your shield arm (which does not get any noticeable protection from having a shield), people simply aim right, and almost every one of their hits is going to be hitting that leather, negating the fact that you are wearing any plate at all.

 

Exactly, and back when people were using tamed critters as mounts, the solution was to nerf the pets, rather than develop proper counters (although now we`ve got polearms which are a step in the right direction).

Just adding the archery/casting penalty isn`t enough, and reducing plate`s glance rate down to that of chain is just silly. The whole armour and combat system really needs to be revisited, but then, people have been saying that for years. Although hopefully now that the dev team is expanding that it will be looked at properly.

 

You`re right, if you have leather on your sword arm then they`ll aim for that. But that`s part of combat, aiming for the enemy`s weak point. If it`s a one handed sword you have then it should be suitably difficult for them to hit, due to your parrying. And by rights, if you are using a shield, and facing your opponent, then it should be extremely difficult to impossible for that hand to be hit.

 

For archery, the longbow shouldn`t be the sniper weapon it is now. It`s range should be at the cost of accuracy, and unusable when mounted. After all, historically, it was used en masse to break up formations at range by sheer weight of numbers of arrows. The medium and shortbows are more suited to wurm`s skirmish range pvp, but they aren`t used due to the longbow`s superiority.

On the subject of archery, this guy is pretty impressive: http://deadspin.com/this-glorious-goober-will-blow-your-mind-with-his-sick-1681361881

 

The question is though, what kind of combat do we want? It`s no fun spending ages finding a fight, then quickly dying, spawning back at base, and then having to spend ages getting back to the fight. But on the other hand Call of WurmField where you can run around with two dozen arrows sticking out of you isn`t a direction I`d like to see it going. 

[warrior 455]

make studded, chain and cloth all same movement speed/defence. have eachbe at an advantage against certain types of attacks (slash, cut, maul etc...).

Another way could be to make them all the same defence/movement speed but have cloth give bonus to spell casting, studded give bonus to archery and chain give bonus to melee.

plate should be allround better defence and slower movement speed. it should be a combo bit which will overal make it a little better.

[dapperdan 18]

...

 

thanks for the read i was actually looking for something like this because most of the tests i found arent done properly, which is probably why i thought what i thought.

 

the reason we dont have all these roles in wurm is mostly because plate is so easy to get/make. i mean, nobody wants to be the poorly equipped frontline infantry guy if they would have a choice.

in medieval times they didnt have a choice, if you had money you could afford a suit of plate, if you were poor you would enlist in the army and be placed in the infantry. atleast, thats roughly how it went i think.

 

nerfing archery was a half-done job, like you said every piece of armour should have its own effect on the body. too bad most people would prefer a fantasy game over a historically correct game, so its probably not happening.