Teleport on PvP servers.

[GoG 59]

Just remove all teleport from PvP servers already.  The obvious exploit (as in: not used as intended) is limiting PvP not helping it.

 

 

It's hard to point out 'lack of realism' in a game with dragons... but travel on a PvP server is relevant to tactics and strategy,  supply lines, travel ambushes, attacking on two fronts etc. etc. etc.

 

 

Village-Teleport is greatly affecting PvP results in a negative way.

 

 

 

[Lockdown 235]

I thought an account could only use it once. Or are people able to use it more?

[Sharkin 1,319]

1+ GoG for bringing this up, but I would not like to see all teleporting removed. Gonna quote myself here:

 

I would like to see the ability to teleport INTO enemy presence removed, just like you can't teleport away from enemy presence. Except for teleporting to token by karma/recall home if you are part of the deed, for defending purposes IF you have been part of the deed for 24h or more.

 

This way people won't join a deed when it's raided only to teleport there.

 

 

I thought an account could only use it once. Or are people able to use it more?

 

Karma, twigs, recall home.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Sharkin

[Postinglels 1,270]

He is referring to all forms of teleport I guess like karma teleport, portal home and all that jazz

Edit: quick draw sharkin 5fast4me

Edited January 22, 2015 by Postinglels

[SotG_is_OP 357]

Remove all forms:

 

> Karma

> /vteleport

> Level 12 on all paths; 'Recall Home'

> Farwalker twigs and stones

 

Also, some measure to prevent abusing capital switching for respawn teleporting is needed. Sure, you lose FS and maybe a res stone, but someone will do it anyway. 

 

@Lockdown There was a way to get more than one use out of /vteleport. To my knowledge, it has not yet been fixed.

Edited January 22, 2015 by SotG_is_OP

[Bloodscythe 2,225]

i tend to side with this notion because there should be a friction of distance..that is there should be hardship realized in having to traverse a large land area. this has been true since the begining of time yet becoming obsolete in the electronic age.  There should be an opportunity cost for having to manage and control land ..ie the time it takes a horse to get there or to have it otherwise manned by villagers.  kingdoms have fallen over time as a result of this..where the bubble bursts because they can't realistically be all places.  teleporting circumvents this.  

 

yet i guess it comes down to what is the philosophy of the game ..twigs and karma ports or some semblance of realism to the projected time frame wurm appears to play in

[Lockdown 235]

Ah ok thanks for clarity. I thought he meant only vteleport.

Mah bad ignore my post then ♡♥

[SotG_is_OP 357]

i tend to side with this notion because there should be a friction of distance..that is there should be hardship realized in having to traverse a large land area. this has been true since the begining of time yet becoming obsolete in the electronic age.  There should be an opportunity cost for having to manage and control land ..ie the time it takes a horse to get there or to have it otherwise manned by villagers.  kingdoms have fallen over time as a result of this..where the bubble bursts because they can't realistically be all places.  teleporting circumvents this.  

 

yet i guess it comes down to what is the philosophy of the game ..twigs and karma ports or some semblance of realism to the projected time frame wurm appears to play in

 

It is a huge balance issue. With the way Twitter feeds are used and the various methods of communication outside the game, teleporting 20+ people into a deed is very easy. If that deed is being raided or there are enemies near it (ie. at HotA - for some reason, you can deed right next to it), you just teleport people in from whichever deed they were on and instantly have more than the enemy. It's ridiculous. 

 

PvP is now Beam-Me-Up-Scottie.

[MetalDragon 1,630]

Personally I don't mind farwalker twigs/stones as you have to set to a specific tile in the game. The severe limitations for them mean in order to defend all deeds you would need multiple twigs, having all your friends twig in will cost a lot of money too.

/vteleport can only be used once which isn't too bad I guess

I never had a problem with Karma home but as Source is widely available from freedom servers and can be traded in large amounts - it's very cheap and "exhausting players stock" is no longer an effective tactic.

Recall home is unlimited (time based) teleports when changing deeds, you can reset the 24 hour cooldown by changing servers.

As I mentioned in my previous post about this issue a few weeks ago:

Teleporting to deed with all your armour in tact, skills, and weapons with no real cost is bad. You don't actually need deeds with entrances or exits giving deeds an even better security for deeds. Allowing players to teleport into deed makes attacking deeds harder as one methods to get the edge on deeds is to stop people getting into deed to defend.

[Miniroll 544]

Just going to be a typical debate of MR vs everyone else...

Just because all of the other kingdoms deeds are within 5 minutes riding distance...

Put yourself in our shoes and suddenly you wont want this change...

Personally I have twigs set up as well as a backup... 5s is more than fair to drop yourself in as its a relatively hefty price considering the enemy can just walk away not spending anything...

[SotG_is_OP 357]

Miniroll, that's called pay to win. Even res stone vs. Mag priest is a terrible system, and res stones themselves are ridiculous in their current implementation (again, pay to win). This also isn't a kingdom vs. kingdom issue, it's a balance issue. Stop using that as an excuse to avoid balancing the game as a whole because it might put you individually at a disadvantage compared to your current tactics.

 

"Kingdom issue" is a buzzword, nothing more. Balance is completely irrelevant to which players are in which kingdom that knows about or uses some unbalanced mechanics.

[Sharkin 1,319]

Just going to be a typical debate of MR vs everyone else...

Just because all of the other kingdoms deeds are within 5 minutes riding distance...

Put yourself in our shoes and suddenly you wont want this change...

Personally I have twigs set up as well as a backup... 5s is more than fair to drop yourself in as its a relatively hefty price considering the enemy can just walk away not spending anything...

 

Well, controlling the majority of the server (or lots of land in general, goes for all kingdoms) should not be a easy task, imo. Having people ride to defend deeds is something I would prefer. Shouldn't be about planting deeds all over the place and be able to get there in a second. Conquer what you can defend, etc.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Sharkin

[Bloodscythe 2,225]

good point raised here is ..and esp when i make comments it's not about any one kingdom.  fixes should never be made that personal as it would just solve one side to create a problem for the other..just like how so many go on crusades to nerf something from an apposing kingdom.  I love this game and i would like to see more engagement.  what i do see instead is more protraction.  this is not best or pvp.  so comments made are to reflect what seems to be some causes or some unbalance that causes players to disengage.  regardless of what kingdom any of you are in i' d think you would hold these same values.  as I'd think all would want a rich vibrant bloody active server to carry out adrenaline rushing crushing.  when i hear the server is dead, no one wants to pvp..maybe examine why instead of a quick easy excuse of the others are cowards.  because however you slice it if active pvp is not happening there is for sure solid reasons whether you want to except them or not.  perhaps some are too afraid to admit the underlying answers out of self interest.  the very same ones that complain no pvp is to be had.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Greasygrundle

[Miniroll 544]

So you want PvP, and stopping people from getting to the PvP is going to increase PvP. k.

I can guarantee you 100% that this thread would not have been made before our enemies got pushed in...

[Klaa 4,872]

As long as theres a cost, its fine imho.

 

farwalkers have to be bought, and so on and so forth in regards to other forms of teleporting.

 

The village teleport is basically free as an accommodation for new players, and if theres ways to get more than one, then it needs changing.

[Battlepaw 585]

Just remove all teleport from PvP servers already.  The obvious exploit (as in: not used as intended) is limiting PvP not helping it.

 

 

It's hard to point out 'lack of realism' in a game with dragons... but travel on a PvP server is relevant to tactics and strategy,  supply lines, travel ambushes, attacking on two fronts etc. etc. etc.

 

 

Village-Teleport is greatly affecting PvP results in a negative way.

 

How is an exploit?   I  could agree that the village invite teleport has been used in such a way that it wasn't intended and still is, but the rest of the teleports have been in some cases long standing features.   

 

While I'm against portals, etc that let you transport wagons, or make the existing teleports redundant, The ability to respond when one of your deed threats should not be relegated to having to run across huge maps in some cases to try and try to mount effective resistance.    

 

Supply lines etc, exist already with the current system and I've only had to go along a few contested highways to find abandoned carts, and look through skirmish thread bragging where people got ambushed while taking a cart of supplies between deeds.    Ambushs are already the most common form of killing your enemies, every fight you get into on Chaos you have to expect a trap, etc.    I don't see teleports affecting this at all.   

 

When you use the existing teleports, you are not bringing a massive load of supplies in any definition, you are bringing yourself to use the resources already there to help defend.  This creates a more challenging environment for the attackers, and takes what may have been a an easy raid for an attacking force to something they have to fight for.   

 

Removing teleports will not benefit PvP, it will hinder pvp, in that an attacker could have full control of the environment.   While this may be a key feature in other games, specifically RTS games, this does not fit well into wurm.   

 

In wurm we spend months working on changing an environment to give us advantage, to make tunnels, walls, etc that all serve to enhance our defenses or make our lives easier.   The issue at hand for a defender isn't one of supply lines, because often for the most part, each deed can provide essential supplies.  There is no food shortage, and there is no shortage of rock to make brick unless you are stupid enough to build on an island.     

 

In that controlling the "supplies" isn't the issue, because only a moron would drive a slow cart into a siege along a contested road.  The resource you want to prevent is players.   Killing the ability to teleport when you control the area around a deed pretty much would solve that, and completely hinder actual pvp.

 

I've seen this happen several times, when an enemy was not able to teleport in due to no twigs, or simply no defenders.  There have been many times where we have had awesome pvp because people could teleport in, and in some cases all we did was ring the door bell to cause a ton of defenders, and have enemies waste their twigs, karma, and village teleports.    (like the recent GOTL   raid ) This total drain on an enemy kingdom is often much more than an actual drain on the token would have effected.    

 

In any case the goal of this thread is to make an attacker that can control completely the pvp outcome.   If defenders can respond the pvp can become more balanced.   While I wouldn't mind that as an attacker I don't think it will help actual pvp at least from my own experience.  

 

If you want to encourage more active pvp, shorten the control distance of deeds, so enemy deeds can be placed closer.    I honestly think it's fine how it is though, even if it is annoying at times to have a ton of enemy deeds that are rarely defended, but just there to hold territory.    

Edited January 22, 2015 by Battlepaw

[Bloodscythe 2,225]

So you want PvP, and stopping people from getting to the PvP is going to increase PvP. k.

I can guarantee you 100% that this thread would not have been made before our enemies got pushed in...

although i don't agree that to take away teleporting would stop pvp, i do agree that unfortunately i think some of why things get pushed are politics related.  I did notice the timing of the issue being raised but  you know outside of that it's still a valid point to be raised.  I'm ok with having different viewpoints.  my reasonings are more in realism than politics and i always hesitate when i say that because..well we have unicorns you can ride and dragons and magic spells..it becomes a slippery slope where i guess no one has the win locked up on the debate.  I do try to stay clear of politics as they are ever changing.

[Battlepaw 585]

although i don't agree that to take away teleporting would stop pvp, i do agree that unfortunately i think some of why things get pushed are politics related.  I did notice the timing of the issue being raised but  you know outside of that it's still a valid point to be raised.  I'm ok with having different viewpoints.  my reasonings are more in realism than politics and i always hesitate when i say that because..well we have unicorns you can ride and dragons and magic spells..it becomes a slippery slope where i guess no one has the win locked up on the debate.  I do try to stay clear of politics as they are ever changing.

 

I might even support the idea of removing teleports, if Wurm had more PvP players, but we don't even on Chaos, which is quite busy atm.    We have to make use of what we have to create PvP, not rely on the players already being wherever the attacker hits.  The land is just too big, and I like it that way.  I also like the additional ability to go where the PvP is, rather than to have to just respond when/if it occurs nearby.      

Edited January 22, 2015 by Battlepaw

[Bloodscythe 2,225]

"The land is just too big, and I like it that way.  I also like the additional ability to go where the PvP is, rather than to have to just respond when/if it occurs nearby.      "

you have horses and boats. i know you can and do sail 3/4 the circumference of the servers just to recap towers so it doesn't hinder you at all.  as to your comment the land is too big..well that's kinda supposed to be the inherant struggle isn't it?  to hold terrain that ..well becomes much more of a challenge as you spread from your core..this has been the issue for all civilizations across time.  and what this does then create a fluidity and dance of land claim that is ever part of pvp. some of what i read here is..but we want to make distance irrelevant.  it's always relevant and should remain so.  it's why a hell horse is better than many traited horses..speed. or diff types of boats.  

 

as i said in fairness my viewpoint is based in realism and i see the teleporting whether karma, village, twig porting as just a very heavy handed way to be anywhere at any time which flies in the face of all that is wurm to which is anchored in the trade off or opportunity cost as they say in economics. distance always has it's cost in this game..except when porting. people place deeds for approximate location to server edge, to markets, to other deeds for reasons...to save travel.  not only in history but in wurm travel has always factored except this artificial idea.  as you can guess i'm not likely a fan of res stones either for the same reason but different convo differ time.  

 

and look, i'm in prose turning into a battlepaw..if only in word volume hehehe.  it's a bad habbit of mine.

[Battlepaw 585]

 

"The land is just too big, and I like it that way.  I also like the additional ability to go where the PvP is, rather than to have to just respond when/if it occurs nearby.      "

you have horses and boats. i know you can and do sail 3/4 the circumference of the servers just to recap towers so it doesn't hinder you at all.  as to your comment the land is too big..well that's kinda supposed to be the inherant struggle isn't it?  to hold terrain that ..well becomes much more of a challenge as you spread from your core..this has been the issue for all civilizations across time.  and what this does then create a fluidity and dance of land claim that is ever part of pvp. some of what i read here is..but we want to make distance irrelevant.  it's always relevant and should remain so.  it's why a hell horse is better than many traited horses..speed. or diff types of boats.  

 

as i said in fairness my viewpoint is based in realism and i see the teleporting whether karma, village, twig porting as just a very heavy handed way to be anywhere at any time which flies in the face of all that is wurm to which is anchored in the trade off or opportunity cost as they say in economics. distance always has it's cost in this game..except when porting. people place deeds for approximate location to server edge, to markets, to other deeds for reasons...to save travel.  not only in history but in wurm travel has always factored except this artificial idea.  as you can guess i'm not likely a fan of res stones either for the same reason but different convo differ time.  

 

and look, i'm in prose turning into a battlepaw..if only in word volume hehehe.  it's a bad habbit of mine.

 

 

Spoken like a true believer in realism, and it's irrelevant effect on immersion in this case.    The fact is teleporting isn't the main way players get around. It's often only used to respond to deeds, and then only the people who want to teleport do so.   I've never seen teleports get used as much as say getting on a horse or boat and riding around.   

 

The only impact this will have will be on deed response, and that effect will be to limit response and choke off players who want to pvp from having effective ways to get there if they are not on that side of the map or nearby.   You still can hit players who are sailing resources across the servers, and or ambush them just like normal.      

 

I find it highly distasteful that it would ever be called an exploit (at least the ones other than that stupid village teleport), when those ways to get around distance limitations were put in the game by developers to facilitate pvp, and allow us to have a choice.   It's not an exploit.   It is a valid feature that has been in the game for as long as I have been playing it, and has not affected trade, it has not effected much of the "Supply Lines" crap you are going on about, the only thing it has done that I can see is bring players into pvp that would normally be unable to attend, often simply because of distance and response time.   

Edited January 22, 2015 by Battlepaw

[Miniroll 544]

 

"The land is just too big, and I like it that way.  I also like the additional ability to go where the PvP is, rather than to have to just respond when/if it occurs nearby.      "

you have horses and boats. i know you can and do sail 3/4 the circumference of the servers just to recap towers so it doesn't hinder you at all.  as to your comment the land is too big..well that's kinda supposed to be the inherant struggle isn't it?  to hold terrain that ..well becomes much more of a challenge as you spread from your core..this has been the issue for all civilizations across time.  and what this does then create a fluidity and dance of land claim that is ever part of pvp. some of what i read here is..but we want to make distance irrelevant.  it's always relevant and should remain so.  it's why a hell horse is better than many traited horses..speed. or diff types of boats.  

 

as i said in fairness my viewpoint is based in realism and i see the teleporting whether karma, village, twig porting as just a very heavy handed way to be anywhere at any time which flies in the face of all that is wurm to which is anchored in the trade off or opportunity cost as they say in economics. distance always has it's cost in this game..except when porting. people place deeds for approximate location to server edge, to markets, to other deeds for reasons...to save travel.  not only in history but in wurm travel has always factored except this artificial idea.  as you can guess i'm not likely a fan of res stones either for the same reason but different convo differ time.  

 

and look, i'm in prose turning into a battlepaw..if only in word volume hehehe.  it's a bad habbit of mine.

 

I do like sailing around the map to cap towers and provoke PvP, usually at an enemy deed...

Not sailing solo for 2 hours to get to the PvP which will disperse in a matter of minutes.

 

Teleporting in gets you into the action, and has a 24 hour cooldown which enemies could use to their advantage...

[Postinglels 1,270]

I do like sailing around the map to cap towers and provoke PvP, usually at an enemy deed...

Not sailing solo for 2 hours to get to the PvP which will disperse in a matter of minutes.

Teleporting in gets you into the action, and has an easily bypassable 24 hour cooldown which enemies could use to their advantage...

Ftfy

[SotG_is_OP 357]

It won't disperse in a matter of minutes. It will disperse in two hours and a few minutes. The point of having to travel to a deed to attack or defend is for tactics. The enemy is supposed to plan a good time and place to raid. As defenders, you have home land advantage but have to deal with the unpredictability. You then have to figure out how to successfully mount a defense and insert your fighters, have a plan for escape, etc.

 

Teleporting just takes the tactical though process out of it. There is literally no valid reason to support this, and I'm getting quite tired of arguing because as you said, it is turning into a kingdom issue. None of these balance suggestions ever go anywhere because it's allegedly all about someone's kingdom getting nerfed or buffed because Johnny got killed by Bobby and lost his scale set and now Johnny is mad that he died, and for some reason Bobby is mad too (probably because of something stupid, like Susie backdoored and now her kingdom needs to be nerfed too).

 

People realize that stuff is broken, but things are only broken when they put the person complaining at a disadvantage. Something they have that puts others at a disadvantage is perfectly fine, because they apparently can't win a fight without a broken feature skewing the fight in their favor. The state of this community and this game's balance is pitiful.

[Dently 111]

I can count the number of "PvP Players" who should be able to post in the suggestion forum's on my 9 fingers......... To count the ones who only serve to de-rail, troll, and generally get valid ideas swept under the rug.... Imma need too borrow many more fingers.

[Battlepaw 585]

It won't disperse in a matter of minutes. It will disperse in two hours and a few minutes. The point of having to travel to a deed to attack or defend is for tactics. The enemy is supposed to plan a good time and place to raid. As defenders, you have home land advantage but have to deal with the unpredictability. You then have to figure out how to successfully mount a defense and insert your fighters, have a plan for escape, etc.

 

Teleporting just takes the tactical though process out of it. There is literally no valid reason to support this, and I'm getting quite tired of arguing because as you said, it is turning into a kingdom issue. None of these balance suggestions ever go anywhere because it's allegedly all about someone's kingdom getting nerfed or buffed because Johnny got killed by Bobby and lost his scale set and now Johnny is mad that he died, and for some reason Bobby is mad too (probably because of something stupid, like Susie backdoored and now her kingdom needs to be nerfed too).

 

People realize that stuff is broken, but things are only broken when they put the person complaining at a disadvantage. Something they have that puts others at a disadvantage is perfectly fine, because they apparently can't win a fight without a broken feature skewing the fight in their favor. The state of this community and this game's balance is pitiful.

 

How is anyone able to take you sereiously?   This is the same with every post you go on about.    There is an issue with the /vteleport  (which is a serious glitch) but the rest has little bearing on game balance.  

 

There are valid reasons we support this mechanic, and this is coming from a player who recently participated in a raid where MR went by land and JK teleported in more defenders then attackers.    We chose not to fight and take the time to bring our group over and fortify a nearby war deed for a bit, but that isn't the case each time it happens.   I've twigged in myself from across the map to support a siege on Kratos, and that result of so many player responding in by teleports created PvP outside the defenses.    

 

The "tactical" part of PvP on chaos has more to do with deed construction, tower capping, ambushing.  Player participation is a crucial part of that and is enhanced by the ability to teleport.    If you want to make up some wishy washy crap of your own you've disconnected yourself from how the game has worked for longer than I have been playing.   

 

There is nothing balanced, about trying to limit PvP participation by making distance cut people out of the experience.    That is a serious reason why people stop playing games.   I've seen it happen elsewhere, and even in wurm it happens when people don't or can't defend because there are too many attackers, and you can't get people there fast enough to make much difference.