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Klaa

A Thievery Tutorial...

Thievery Primer  

77 members have voted

  1. 1. A Need For One?

    • Yes
    • No
    • Obligatory third option... thats hanging talk


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...or rather a introductory primer of sorts.
 
Been considering the need for one, and I even have a rough outline and draft made. Before getting involved in that I wish to see if there is even really a need or interest in one. After all there's tutorials on almost everything else... even ones for the tutorials. :P
 
One would think if there was really a demand, someone would have done it already.
 
So... what do you think?

  • Should there be one?
  • If so, what are your main concerns or questions in that area?
  • What doesn't the wiki already seem to make clear?
  • What would you look for?

EDIT: Something came up I felt I should articulate...
 
I am not talking about ways of gaming the game's rules or exploiting loopholes in those rules. For example imho thievery belongs on pvp servers, where players by the very act of being on such servers have consented to being targets. Kill or be killed basically.
 
Anyone doing such on a Freedom server deserves getting reported and the ensuing consequences.
 
Just because I play a rogue doesnt mean I do not have rules or guidelines. They just are not your rules ;P
 
EDIT: Heres the rough outline:
 

Introduction


            This is not meant to be a comprehensive guide to all things thievery and such in Wurm.  There's just no fun in revealing all to begin with, and I'm lazy.  Rather it is to provide help with the basics and some possible hypothetical applications.  For those who wish to up their game from common "rag-pickers".
 
If one is seeking to better understand the psychological principles, I recommend the following article: http://www.spring.org.uk/2010/01/the-7-psychological-principles-of-scams-protect-yourself-by-learning-the-techniques.php
 
Furthermore, I can neither confirm nor deny any firsthand knowledge of the usage of these skills ingame.
 
Outline:
I. Fundamentals
 A. Body Control (Stealth and everything else)
 B. Lockpicking
 C. Stealing
 D. Traps
 E. Stealth
  a. Actual
  b. Mines
  c. Mounts
 
II. Training
 A. Body Control
 B. Lockpicking
 C. Stealing
 D. Traps
 
III. Intermediary
 A. Solo vs. Group Tactics
 B. Diversions or Framing
  a. Loudmouth Idiots
  b. Locks From Known Thieves
 C. Traps
 D. Know Your Enemy and Thyself
 E. Knowing a "good" Fence
  a. Helps if considered respectable and reliable in general.
  b. Can be the same person as your smith.
  c. Doesn't ask too many questions about that shiny new ship ur selling him.
 
IV. Hypothetically-Speaking
 A. Spying
 B. Sabotage
 C. Downright dirty scoundrel


 
Example section: Lockpicking

Lockpicking


            Lockpicking is fairly self-explanatory. Its the skill for picking locks. In Wurm this allows one to bypass locked doors on structures, vehicles, ships, and containers. This guide will simply refer to all lockable items as containers.  The tools needed, lockpicks, can only be made by a locksmith of some skill, so one may wish to pick this up as a side skill as you will go through picks frequently.  Knowing a good smith or merchant is another good idea. There are additional benefits from such a relationship, which will be covered later.
 
Lockpicks will break... ALOT. Less so as the quality is higher, and it helps to have several dozen in multiple satchels on one's belt ready to activate. Picks of a ql less than twenty of the lock's ql will not even work to begin with. Once the lock is picked, it will stay open for so many minutes as indicated by Examining, as in the case of gate locks, or as with padlocks, the lock will come off and appear in your inventory.
 
The difficulty of the lock can vary greatly and is dependent on several factors: the container ql, pick ql, examined lock ql (see table 1.1), your skill, the type of container, etc. Ships are more difficult than say a chest, and larger ships more so. The calculated chance is displayed on the menu next to Pick Lock.
 
Table 1.1: Examined Lock Quality Ranges

Very poor
1 - 9.99ql

Poor
10 - 19.99ql

Below average
20 - 29.99ql

Okay
30 - 39.99ql

Above average
40 - 49.99ql

Pretty good
50 - 59.99ql

Good
60 - 69.99ql

Very good
70 - 79.99ql

Exceptional
80 - 89.99ql

Fantastic
90 - 99.99ql

Some say a minimum of 30 Lockpicking is needed to be effective, personally its more around 50. Also do not be discouraged by lockpicking chances of less than 5%, these containers are still vulnerable to those with time and determination.... and alot of lockpicks.
 
Third Person:
[19:19:16] Klaa picks the lock of the small chest.
[19:18:20] Klaa silently curses as he fails to pick the lock of the small chest.
 
First Person:
[19:18:20] You start to pick the lock of the small chest.
[19:18:20] You fail to pick the lock of the small chest.

 

EDIT: Project currently on back burner due to RL.

Edited by Klaa

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Anything that explains an aspect of the game is a good thing. Also the more information we have on thievery the more protective measures that people can take as well.


 


Would be nice to have both a "Here's what can be done" and "Ways to protect yourself" sections.


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I lean towards no. Those that want to steal can, generally, find their way in doing so just fine.

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Technically speaking people agree to having read the rules already when signing into the game so if they don't do that and later claim to have not been aware of them they're not likely to read the tutorial boxes either. I think adding a tutorial for the purpose would be like shouting at a deaf person's back - You might feel like you're doing something but very little will actually come out of it.


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Not sure exactly what it would cover.


 


Would it be like nos's "this is how the reputation system works" guide?

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It could vary dramatically depending on what people seem to want to know, hence my questions in that regard. Offhand it could consist of skillgain tips, factors that play a role in success or failure, ways to make oneself less of a target, etc.


 


For example the ql of the container plays a role in the chances for picking the container's lock. Basically the usual "Bigger is better".


 


One could get into tactics, a particular favorite of mine was taking advantage of the more loud-mouthed idiots  by framing them with my own thefts. Various ways of doing that: using their signed locks, leaving rowboats nearby changed to their name, and so on.


 


And aye sometimes the wiki can be a little cryptic in how the /reputation system works or rather ways of gaming it. However, thats better left to the reputation wiki page, especially if its not alot of information.


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Should there be one?

 

Yes; I'm not totally positive what Aeris is on about, but it sounds like she feels it'll just go ignored by those who didn't really read the ToS. However, I honestly think people are more likely to read posts on the forum (which is generally what people are there for) than a lengthy legal document that tends to be the same from MMO to MMO.

 

What would you look for?

 

A more distilled summary of what is and isn't against in-game rules could be useful to both thieves who want to stay clear of a ban and players who feel someone who stole from them may have broken those rules. Additionally, words of wisdom as to what it can do for someone's reputation if not careful might be worth pointing out. Sharing common tactics employed by thieves may wind up helping their would-be victims more than anyone, but I guess I'm not saying that's a bad thing ;P

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Would be cool if you cound describe ways to "bend" mechanics and social engineer people in freedom to loot things from their villages. Ofcurse it should be for educational purposes to let people know how the bad guys think to help them be better at protecting themselves and their fortune.


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Would be cool if you cound describe ways to "bend" mechanics and social engineer people in freedom to loot things from their villages. Ofcurse it should be for educational purposes to let people know how the bad guys think to help them be better at protecting themselves and their fortune.

 

Ah theres actually already some excellent papers in psychology circles on that subject:

 

http://www.spring.org.uk/2010/01/the-7-psychological-principles-of-scams-protect-yourself-by-learning-the-techniques.php

 

Personally though I play on pvp servers where thieves belong imho. I personally do not condone such actions on Freedom servers for afterall a thief has to be prepared for the consequences of their actions: kill or be killed.

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Would prefer a criminal justice system, wouldnt take long for people to read and understand things. Something along the lines of if you are in violation of x rule you get x points. After x points your flagged for pvp and you can only be attacked, not attack back. Public flogging :)


Edited by sunsvortex

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+1, a guide for what ql locks/picks to use at what level, what ammo ql/volume in catas does what dmg to what ql walls, etc would be very handy


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As a reflection of RL, a wise thief concerned about limiting detection and retaining their advantages would not be sharing their methods with anyone else. Even collectives or associations with others who have this inclination further exposes one to the risk of detection or cuts into their profitable trade by giving others ideas which they would otherwise not have. A truly successful thief lives the more solitary life professionally, I would imagine.


 


Although within this game the risks and consequences are much less than out in that other world, I see little value still in exposing ones methods, other than an attempt to brag about ones cleverness. If that is the personal goal in being a thief within this game then I suppose giving tips on how to go about this would center more attention in the intended direction. Other than that, it is probably best to leave only a bemused puzzlement remaining behind to any perplexing situation of wonderment with trails cleverly obscured to conceal the methods involved.


 


So then, if only you know what you are talking about, so much the better. *said the joker to the thief*


 


Happy Trails


=Ayes=


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would be useful to mention things such as like a 90ql rowboat with a 90ql lock is harder to pick than a 90ql knarr with a 90ql lock and other things of similar note


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As a reflection of RL, a wise thief concerned about limiting detection and retaining their advantages would not be sharing their methods with anyone else. Even collectives or associations with others who have this inclination further exposes one to the risk of detection or cuts into their profitable trade by giving others ideas which they would otherwise not have. A truly successful thief lives the more solitary life professionally, I would imagine.

 

Although within this game the risks and consequences are much less than out in that other world, I see little value still in exposing ones methods, other than an attempt to brag about ones cleverness. If that is the personal goal in being a thief within this game then I suppose giving tips on how to go about this would center more attention in the intended direction. Other than that, it is probably best to leave only a bemused puzzlement remaining behind to any perplexing situation of wonderment with trails cleverly obscured to conceal the methods involved.

 

So then, if only you know what you are talking about, so much the better. *said the joker to the thief*

 

Happy Trails

=Ayes=

 

The primer is free. Advanced classes are another matter entirely  :P

 

would be useful to mention things such as like a 90ql rowboat with a 90ql lock is harder to pick than a 90ql knarr with a 90ql lock and other things of similar note

 

One of the advantages to helping when Rolf tested and revised the new Thievery code live on test is adding input. A comment was made regarding the popularity of smaller ships in pvp, and how they should be easier to break into as a sort of balance. Iirc Rolf agreed.

 

It should be the other way around, smaller ships being easier to break into.

 

Granted I havent compared a 90ql rowboat with 90ql lock to the same factors on a knarr in quite a long time. 

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Rough outline and an example chapter added to the OP.


 


Very rough early examples, so feel free to tear apart. The table for the lockpicking ql ranges isnt how it will be actually displayed, as I didnt take the time to properly writeup the BB forums code for the formatting (feh on that)


 


Little concerned the lockpicking section is a bit "wordy" personally.


 


Otherwise the usual concerns: needs more? needs less? More visual aids? etc?


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Not sure exactly what it would cover.

 

Would it be like nos's "this is how the reputation system works" guide?

 

I heard rolf bought a copy, lol

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Something players should remember, lock-picking is against the rules on Freedom.


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except its not...

 

ok mom

 

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basically extremely situational and best avoided unless you know what the hell you're doing :^)

Edited by Huntar

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Aye freedom only allows lockpicking if you placed the lock on that chest yourself, or the locked item doesnt have an apparent owner (abandoned).


 


An old workaround in case someone ever loses the key, and destroying the chest is too bothersome.


 


On pvp servers, everything goes.


Edited by Klaa

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I remember back on Independence years ago that you could lock pick any bins and gates that were not on deed tiles. There were even some comments made about this since gates in particular would relock after a short time. With bins when you picked the lock it would fall on the ground under them and they couldn't be picked up back then. So I don't remember a time really when it was announced that this was changed but apparently it has been? Not so sure...


 


=Ayes=


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Its been decided, Thievery tutorials aren't allowed. Sizzle posted one, its now gone. Rip this idea.


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69% voted yes. I make one and it gets deleted. So far there has been no response to me as why it got deleted and what rule it was violating. I'm curious to see why the moderation went against the will of 69% of this games community.


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