Remove Lye From The Concrete Creation Process

[Aetherwalker 1,863]

Change the NS requirement to Masonry skill, would make this much more friendly

[Depends 220]

From an older thread on the difficulty of making concrete: 

 

Not including the sand/clay digging and assuming no failures, that would be 220 actions just to fix one accidental mine_down. Considering the damage that a griefer, new player or even an accident can cause to a mine, the amount of work involved to repair the damage is excessive.
I still have a lot of tunnels that the bugs screwed up that I'd love to fix and use again but it would just take too much work to do it.
Also there is still a random slope when mining straight that can cause parallel tunnels to be off quite a bit when they meet. I've had tunnels that start at the same level and only run 30-40 tiles but end up with a 10-15 slope difference at the far end.

[ShadowRonin 407]

+1 on this.

 

At least streamlining the process would help.  Possibly something that would yield greater quantities of ash, or impable campfires to help grind that firemaking skill.  A good use for woodscraps finally?

[Uberknot 327]

Not that hard to make so they should not remove it.

Edited January 7, 2015 by Uberknot

[Booskii 379]

+1 on this.

 

  Possibly something that would yield greater quantities of ash

 Coal piles!!!!

[Eobersig 1,006]

-1

 

Don't see any reason to make the game easier.

[ShadowRonin 407]

 Coal piles!!!!

 

Haha, yeah, I forgot to mention coal piles.  They do an alright job, and if you have good coal making they give a nice yield of ash, but the amount of time it takes to produce is a bit too long for my liking.

[Ayes 3,715]

What is the harm in making it easier to fix mistakes?

 

Exactly! Concrete was specifically designed and implemented for the purpose of repairing mine floors. Any players that take their own game time to repair damage caused by other careless players should not be punished by a creation process that takes 10 or probably more times to repair that damage than it does to cause it.

 

The concrete creation process is poorly thought out without taking this into consideration, especially with the careless addition of lye not effectively evaluated as an additional ingredient. Now whoever dreamt this up, no need to lye about it.

 

 

 

=Ayes=

[hankrearden 144]

A big -1 to this.  I do not believe any item creation or crafting should be made easier.  Most other games on the market cater more towards an instant gratification reward mechanism, including some notable sandbox games.  Wurm is unique in that it relies more on a sense of accomplishment reward mechanism.  If a good sense of accomplishment does not get you off, there is a whole internet of games tailored for you, please let us have a few of our own.

[Ayes 3,715]

A big -1 to this.  I do not believe any item creation or crafting should be made easier.  Most other games on the market cater more towards an instant gratification reward mechanism, including some notable sandbox games.  Wurm is unique in that it relies more on a sense of accomplishment reward mechanism.  If a good sense of accomplishment does not get you off, there is a whole internet of games tailored for you, please let us have a few of our own.

 

I am referring to this specific process of creating concrete, not adjusting Wurm into becoming an instant gratification game; but no, I don't get any sense of accomplishment from creating concrete with this process, just a grudging sense of frustration that a useful product has been turned into a taunting task.

 

Now since the "us" that you refer to who enjoy this game includes me, I would say that I should express my opinions as to what parts of it that I don't find to me so much that. I am highly unlikely to give up playing Wurm just because of concrete creation, only more likely not to use it for the reasons that I have stated.

 

Wurm does go to the extreme at times in time consuming process and this is a prime example of one of them. So stop the lye, says I.

 

=Ayes=

[Depends 220]

A big -1 to this.  I do not believe any item creation or crafting should be made easier.  Most other games on the market cater more towards an instant gratification reward mechanism, including some notable sandbox games.  Wurm is unique in that it relies more on a sense of accomplishment reward mechanism.  If a good sense of accomplishment does not get you off, there is a whole internet of games tailored for you, please let us have a few of our own.

 

I know nothing gives me a greater sense of accomplishment than spending an hour to fix a 3 second mistake. Reducing tedium isn't the same thing as making the game easier and the ability to power through annoying game design choices shouldn't be the defining characteristic of the wurm community.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Depends

[zMole 12]

The amount of lye should be reduced, instead of 1.5kg per concrete, make it 0.5kg

Edited January 8, 2015 by zMole

[Miniroll 544]

Just a reflection;

 

You can reinforce the floor with support beam to prevent the most new of newbies to ruin it.

 

http://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php/Support_beam

Problem with reinforced floors is that if you walk into the tile border wrong or you have slight lag and you bump into a reinforced wall next to a reinforced floor, it will suffocate you...

Source: My deed has killed more of my people than all of the other kingdoms in the last year...

 

 

While I would love to see concrete easier to make, removing lye from the proves removes one of the very few uses of Lye. If it were to be made really easily then it should be something only possible on PvE servers. The use of it on pvp servers would create the new 'standard' in deed defences, even if it's capped at 90 steep.

Purely concreting is capped at 26, as it flows down past that.

[eyerobot 202]

It is a rediculous amount of work just to fix a mine floor.  Just like surface mining is unrealistic.  Their picks don't work as well outdoors as in the mine?

[lpleroylp 59]

Change the NS requirement to Masonry skill, would make this much more friendly

Remove the lye no but this suggestionni like it makes more sence anyway as concrete is a sort of mortar so why not change it fron ns to masonry

[MetalDragon 1,630]

Purely concreting is capped at 26, as it flows down past that.

Where there's a will there's a way, raise it then surface mine to bring it to 90 steep or however big the cap is.

[Propheteer 7,139]

people who never had to make 500-1000 concrete because of someone elses mistake are the people -1ing

 

#mountainlifeproblems

Edited January 10, 2015 by Propheteer

[SotG_is_OP 357]

+1

 

Concrete sucks. Ever made slate floors?

[Radni 1,089]

-1 I have no mag priest and am not elitist. Lye is infinitely easier than sand and rock. Fountain and kindlings..

[LaRue 251]

How about a better way to make ash? Currently, if you're not a coalmaker, the only way to make decent QL ash is to spam hundreds of campfires, one on each tile, and that's stupid: not only are you covering your deed in lagtastic eyesores, but the QL is dependent on firemaking skill and flint&steel QL, both of which are difficult or uncommon to improve.

 

Maybe make campfires act like coal piles, and allow them to create ash over time. They shouldn't be infinite, but we at least could use a way to get more than 0.1 kg at a time. Maybe make the ash or campfire QL dependent on the QL of fuel you put in it, so we don't have infinite high QL ash without at least using some resources.

Edited January 10, 2015 by LaRue

[silakka 2,360]

concrete is easy with enough skill

[As_I_Decay 1,592]

concrete is easy with enough skill

You people keep saying that... but with 90 NS, it would still take you more that a half an hour to fix a mess up that it took someone else 5 minutes to make.

The work far outweighs the reward.

[Archaed 2,280]

You people keep saying that... but with 90 NS, it would still take you more that a half an hour to fix a mess up that it took someone else 5 minutes to make.

The work far outweighs the reward.

No it wouldnt, if its too bad, collapse the tile.

 

Mines aren't like land above ground, I know some must have their mine floors flat, but it's not an absolute requirement, and when it is, the work can be done.

 

the work may outweigh the reward in most cases, but for some the reward is worth it

[Ayes 3,715]

concrete is easy with enough skill

 

Creating anything is *easier* with enough (higher) skill. The point made concerning creating concrete is the time factor involved, of which the need to use lye is the most significant portion (time factor).

 

Also, although creating lye is under the natural substances skill, I would think that the creation of concrete would be better suited to the masonry skill. Then some few highly skilled dye makers or healing cover producers would not have a further advantage in the final production phase. Not only does the masonry skill seem more applicable to the product but it is one more commonly held by the general building populous, under which category repairing mine floors seems to more closely resemble.

 

=Ayes=

[As_I_Decay 1,592]

No it wouldnt, if its too bad, collapse the tile.

 

Mines aren't like land above ground, I know some must have their mine floors flat, but it's not an absolute requirement, and when it is, the work can be done.

 

the work may outweigh the reward in most cases, but for some the reward is worth it

Collapsing requires a separate microtransaction or a mag priest. Either way, you're now talking about using money to fix a common problem that happened without the need to spend any (additional) money in the first place.

We have silly rules against terraforming roadwork, aka highways, because of "griefing"... yet it's quicker to dump dirt into a pit than it is to dig it out. Why is it that game rules are put in place to prevent people from "griefing" my dirt work (that's easy to fix), but not for my mine work? Not that I would want such rules, but why is there a seperation of viewpoint? Why must there be some kind of difficulty or timesink to it?

Personally, I'd like concrete to remain as is, and used as a future ingredient for crafting (higher end masonry items). I'd like to see a change to mine floors, requiring mortar and rockshard to fix.

Edited January 11, 2015 by As_I_Decay