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Constructive Discussion on Shield of the Gone

Changes to Shield of the Gone  

192 members have voted

  1. 1. If Shield of the Gone is nerfed, what do you feel is an appropriate change?

    • 30% Passive Damage Reduction
      6
    • 25% Passive Damage Reduction
      30
    • 20% Passive Damage Reduction
      17
    • 15% Passive Damage Reduction
      5
    • 10% Passive Damage Reduction
      9
    • Activated Ability - Please post how long the activation period, and cooldown.
      18
    • Other
      8
    • No Change
      99


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Shouldn't require a team to do it frandster

 

player with better stats/items > sotg player.

 

just grind better stats.

 

if a FO priest with sotg fought a player another player that isn't a fo priest with sotg, fo priest with sotg would win.

 

player with sotg fights player without sotg, gonna win.

 

theres one thing after another, that will have a factor in winning vs another player.

 

yes, sotg helps alot, but its obtainable by anyone.

 

everyone has the arguement that SOTG is too OP, and theres no counter.

 

ok, well seryll is OP, adamantine is OP, artifacts are OP, champs are OP.

 

like seriously, there are ways to counter a player with SOTG, its called grind!

 

heres a few ways to counter just SOTG,

 

get better stats then that player.

get better items then that player.

use the terrain to your advantage.

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I still just dont see whats wrong with having 1 end game ability that people will work for, so what if other meditation paths arent as good? Just pick insanity and you wont have to worry about it, no reason not to. And its not like its hard to get, just takes time, separates the lazy from the hard working.

So someone that does the actually hard work of grinding stats and skills should have to do the timesink rng work of meditation, and have to pick insanity, or they are automatically going to be putting themselves at a disadvantage.

And they also should have to deal with the fact that the timesink rng grind is going to give them much more of a benefit than all of their actual hard grinding.

 

 

 

 

if a FO priest with sotg fought a player another player that isn't a fo priest with sotg, fo priest with sotg would win.

 

player with sotg fights player without sotg, gonna win.

So you are supporting the fact that SoTG is op.

(and i have no clue what you are talking about with the fo priest bit, fo is really not a good priest in 1v1s)

 

 

player with better stats/items > sotg player.

 

get better stats then that player.

get better items then that player.

use the terrain to your advantage.

Not really true at all.

 

Steel plate+SoTG>Glimmer/seryll plate.

 

And even if it wasn't, how do you force your enemies to have worse gear than you.

If someone has glimmer plate and SoTG, how do you get better gear than them.

 

And if you say "use artifacts" why should you have to use artifacts to fight someone with SoTG. (and how do you use them if the SoTG player is using them)

 

 

Someone with 50 body and SoTG, better than someone with 70 without it.

 

 

Use the terrain is just nonsense, height advantage is not going to do much against SoTG, and if you mean something like use pits, good luck with that.

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So someone that does the actually hard work of grinding stats and skills should have to do the timesink rng work of meditation, and have to pick insanity, or they are automatically going to be putting themselves at a disadvantage.

And they also should have to deal with the fact that the timesink rng grind is going to give them much more of a benefit than all of their actual hard grinding.

 

 

 

 

So you are supporting the fact that SoTG is op.

(and i have no clue what you are talking about with the fo priest bit, fo is really not a good priest in 1v1s)

 

 

Not really true at all.

 

Steel plate+SoTG>Glimmer/seryll plate.

 

And even if it wasn't, how do you force your enemies to have worse gear than you.

If someone has glimmer plate and SoTG, how do you get better gear than them.

 

And if you say "use artifacts" why should you have to use artifacts to fight someone with SoTG. (and how do you use them if the SoTG player is using them)

 

 

Someone with 50 body and SoTG, better than someone with 70 without it.

 

 

Use the terrain is just nonsense, height advantage is not going to do much against SoTG, and if you mean something like use pits, good luck with that.

 

show me that fight please.

 

what the fs and weapon ql and armor and weapon type and any sorcery buffs/debuffs? enchants on items. what enchants on each player?

 

it all factors in!

 

not just 1 thing.

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Pretty sure a 50% damage bonus against a 50% damage reduction is a strategy.

That being said there's no point arguing, apparently your opinion is more important than others.

 

1.5 * 0.5 = 0.75

 

Using hate bonus against gone, the gone player is still only taking 75% damage negating armor differences.

 

Really hate bonus and gone are both overpowered. Gone is just more overpowered. If meditation were to be completely overhauled, both of these should be removed. However, Rolf already refused to do this, so my preferred fix would be to move hate bonus to level 11, and nerf gone to 25% damage reduction. They would cancel each other out, and they would both be level 11, thus removing the imbalance that would be caused by allowing level 7 to cancel level 11.

 

Both would still be very powerful. Really, damage reduction and bonuses should be avoided wherever possible, but the current development trends show the opposite, which is unfortunate.

 

Nothing about sandboxes... there's nothing that can apply to a sandbox game, because sandboxes don't control enviroment where/when/how/how much/and between who pvp happens just like themeparks do, the only way to balance sandbox game is by ensuring everyone can  get anything the game offers on the same conditions, So wurm as a KvsKvsK game can be really unbalanced only in part where it limits certain options to players in different kingdoms like specific WL/BLonly spells and abbilities or between priests and crafters.

 

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/universal?searchDictCode=all

 

There is no specified genre of games that these apply to because they are universal. There is a reason that these principles are explained in terms of many different games (card games, board games, FPS, RPG, fighting, etc.). They are applicable to all games, not just the ones you want them to be to avoid actually balancing this game.

 

By your logic, sandbox games should have no balance whatsoever. That is a highly flawed thought process that would be the downfall of any game designer and his or her creations.

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1.5 * 0.5 = 0.75

 

Using hate bonus against gone, the gone player is still only taking 75% damage negating armor differences.

 

Really hate bonus and gone are both overpowered. Gone is just more overpowered. If meditation were to be completely overhauled, both of these should be removed. However, Rolf already refused to do this, so my preferred fix would be to move hate bonus to level 11, and nerf gone to 25% damage reduction. They would cancel each other out, and they would both be level 11, thus removing the imbalance that would be caused by allowing level 7 to cancel level 11.

 

Both would still be very powerful. Really, damage reduction and bonuses should be avoided wherever possible, but the current development trends show the opposite, which is unfortunate.

 

 

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/universal?searchDictCode=all

 

There is no specified genre of games that these apply to because they are universal. There is a reason that these principles are explained in terms of many different games (card games, board games, FPS, RPG, fighting, etc.). They are applicable to all games, not just the ones you want them to be to avoid actually balancing this game.

 

By your logic, sandbox games should have no balance whatsoever. That is a highly flawed thought process that would be the downfall of any game designer and his or her creations.

 

 

drake, scale, seryll, adamantine,glimmer armors need to be reduced in dmg reduction some too, its too OP. 

 

too much of a difference for players without it. its not fair. just like sotg compared to players without it.

 

sotg all players atleast have a chance at it....

 

those special armors... only way for a player to obtain those are to beat the stronger/older players which isn't possible since they already have those special armors.

 

please nerf those armors as well if sotg is going to be nerfed.

 

 

its only fair. 

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drake, scale, seryll, adamantine,glimmer armors need to be reduced in dmg reduction some too, its too OP. 

too much of a difference for players without it. its not fair. just like sotg compared to players without it.

 

sotg all players atleast have a chance at it....

 

those special armors... only way for a player to obtain those are to beat the stronger/older players which isn't possible since they already have those special armors.

 

please nerf those armors as well if sotg is going to be nerfed.

 

its only fair. 

Except those armors are nowhere near as large of an advantage.

20 dam hit

Plate/drake, goes to 6.6 dam.

ada/scale, goes to 5.6

Glim/seryll goes to 4.6

 

That is at 80 ql, in a more realistic situation ada/glimmer/seryll plate is probably not going to be as high ql as normal plate.

So again

20 dam hit

80ql plate/drake 6.6

70ql ada/scale 6.4

70ql glim/seryll 5.4

 

And gear is MUCH more obtainable than any ability that requires you to invest at least a year in getting it, you can make it yourself, and if you kill someone with it, you can take it from them.

 

Going with what you said earlier, "counter" those older/stronger players having it by having more people/grinding more.

Edited by Kagrenac

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If I had a 70/70/70 fighter with 70 mining, I could just walk out to the 3 volcanoes on Elevation twice a day and farm a total of .6 kg of adamantine a day. I could also butcher Valrei mobs for seryll or get glimmer from scenario endings. I am putting myself at risk, but I am not required to fight anyone (as you claim).


 


Given enough time, I could make my own moon metal gear and not have to fight a single player for these. They are still less of a benefit by themselves than a player in steel plate with gone. The time it would take to do this is still a fraction of what it would take to get shield of the gone. I still have to leave deed to get these and there is a chance I could be killed. Meditation can be ground on a home server deed with no risk (just log off if you get raided, which probably won't happen unless you have an open token anyway).


 


If I PvP, I can kill other players and steal their moon metal gear as well. Going as a group increases my odds. I can't steal shield of the gone and remove it from an enemy's possession. 


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Except those armors are nowhere near as large of an advantage.

20 dam hit

Plate/drake, goes to 6.6 dam.

ada/scale, goes to 5.6

Glim/seryll goes to 4.6

 

That is at 80 ql, in a more realistic situation ada/glimmer/seryll plate is probably not going to be as high ql as normal plate.

So again

20 dam hit

80ql plate/drake 6.6

70ql ada/scale 6.4

70ql glim/seryll 5.4

 

And gear is MUCH more obtainable than any ability that requires you to invest at least a year in getting it, you can make it yourself, and if you kill someone with it, you can take it from them.

 

Going with what you said earlier, "counter" those older/stronger players having it by having more people/grinding more.

 

 

who do you know with those equipment that low?

 

plate is normally 85-90+ ql, steel

drake i've always seen 90ql

ada i've always seen 90ql

seryll i've always seen 80-85ql.

 

please reevaluate your dmg amounts. thanks.

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who do you know with those equipment that low?

 

plate is normally 85-90+ ql, steel

drake i've always seen 90ql

ada i've always seen 90ql

seryll i've always seen 80-85ql.

 

please reevaluate your dmg amounts. thanks.

 

Plate is normally 70-80ql

Drake is usually imped to 80-85ql, might be different now that everyone gets free imping pieces often enough, but not a lot even use it

90ql ada or glimmer?  lol, with how costly weapons/armor get, most don't do 90ql unless it's a lot of boulder lumps.  Certainly isn't coming from hota wins

Seryll seems to be capped at around 74-75ql from butchered stuff, I have high butchering and use rare things to butcher and never even got 75ql exact.  Only lumps higher are legacy rewards and there aren't a whole lot of those

 

 

Something that people seem to be missing when comparing low stats with gone to high stats, those with higher stats are going to hit a lot harder.  Using an axe, I killed Tahj (50+ stats iirc, and gone) alone in 12 hits.  So while lower stats with gone may be similar to higher stats without gone, the guy without gone is going to win most likely because he just hits harder.  Yes that higher stat guy can get gone too but then it's just evident the only reason it's strong is because the account it's on is stronger than everyone else

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Yeah, but it was gone vs. gone, which effectively negates the bonus on both sides. Now it's down to your account's strength (which everyone knows is much better than that of Tahj) and that the axe you usually use is a rare adamantine, as well as knowledge of mechanics.


 


I highly doubt the difference between his reduction and your bonuses (strength, addy) would cancel each other out, and his total damage reduction would still be higher than yours if you didn't have gone.


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Yes it would be higher, assuming no moon armor, but the point is that I'm still going to be dealing more damage than he would


 


It's what i keep trying to say, gone is just a buff like any other to make an account stronger but it depends on the accounts initial strength, and the only "problem" that exists is the ability to make strong stronger which seems fine to me in a grind based sandbox


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Where are all these 1v1 fights happening. Bring some friends.


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Wow, I don't know when Gary and tahj had this 1vs1. I have owned the account for about a month. I am curious as to what all tahj was using during a fight with the king of MR. I can only imagine what advantages Gary had other then his supreme characteristics. (Sarcasm)

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My point is its not necessarily a fair test to be used to decide on sotg being op or not.

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My point is its not necessarily a fair test to be used to decide on sotg being op or not.

 

My guess is you completely misunderstood the point I was making, and yes it was the previous owner

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Why not just make it like this?


Keep the ability for PvE and change it's ability when fighting vs. PvP-based creatures.


 


example:


50% Damage Reduction Vs. PvE


Includes: Uniques, Trolls, Wolves, etc.


 


25% Damage Reduction Vs. PvP


Includes: Players, Spirit Templars, Tower Guards, Enemy Pets.


 


That way there isn't much fuss about the reduction being too much in PvP and the people who have it on PvE servers can still enjoy it's benefit.


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I get what your saying. I feel sotg isn't op. A player could grind body stats and PvP related skills and could take on a toon with OK body and PvP skills with sotg

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I get what your saying. I feel sotg isn't op. A player could grind body stats and PvP related skills and could take on a toon with OK body and PvP skills with sotg

 

 

yes, i just did a test. i have a character with slightly better body/mind stats, less fs, used a small maul with LT, and i tested with plate against a character with slightly less body/mind stats, except this char had better body stam, sickle with LT and used seryll and SOTG

 

 

NO SOTG was at 90pc hp and SOTG was at 50pc HP then the stamina ran out.... then the no sotg character lost after a minute.

 

if the no sotg character had higher body stamina, the no sotg character would have won the fight. easily.

 

if anyone wants proof, i'll make a video, i'll make a few video's.

 

it all comes down to characteristics. and buffs. but i had no buffs going. so, SOTG is no OP.

 

infact, because of this test, i'm now not going to use my SOTG character, and use the path of hate character, even though i did not use the hate bonus during this testing phase.

 

BODY STAMINA = OP!

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Honestly if I didn't have to wait the timer I'd switch to level 11 Power in a heart beat.


 


Gone is fine as is.


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I don't think the people arguing against sotg have ever noticed that there is very rarely a 1v1 on wurm and in a big group fight there is far more variables to think about, a group fight will never be 'balanced'.

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I don't think the people arguing against sotg have ever noticed that there is very rarely a 1v1 on wurm and in a big group fight there is far more variables to think about, a group fight will never be 'balanced'.

Except a group fight is where it really shines.

People have to "kill" two of you for you to actually die.

 

"focus x priest so he cant cast, focus x guy because he calls shots, focus x because he has ability/item y"

Gone lets you last twice as long.

And Gone helps you by making people less likely to focus you too, people will generally go for people they don't have to spend as long killing.

 

 

Sure, a group fight will never be balanced, but when you have players you pretty much have to kill twice, that is going to have a huge effect on the battle.

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I do believe Ive finally lost count of the number of old threads around the very same subject. :P


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Sure, a group fight will never be balanced, but when you have players you pretty much have to kill twice, that is going to have a huge effect on the battle.

 

When you talk group fights, then a group of fo/lib priests that can effectively spam light of fo/scorn of lib has an even larger effect since it heals horses and the whole group within range, whether or not its a good/lucky cast is another debate, but we've clearly seen how both spells can be a massive game changer when used effectively

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Like gary said, there are mechanics put in place to help you win fights.

Use them more effectively.

If there was no sotg you would probably start crying about people who have 70+ body because its 'unfair' that they put tons of hard work in, or you would cry that drake/scale is OP because you can move faster and is a limited commodity... etc

If you think sotg is so influential why not go get it for yourself? Oh yeah thats right your just a lazy who wants everything handed to you on a platter.

The meditation paths are a play style. Pick one and go with it, have some fun!

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