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Constructive Discussion on Shield of the Gone

Changes to Shield of the Gone  

192 members have voted

  1. 1. If Shield of the Gone is nerfed, what do you feel is an appropriate change?

    • 30% Passive Damage Reduction
      6
    • 25% Passive Damage Reduction
      30
    • 20% Passive Damage Reduction
      17
    • 15% Passive Damage Reduction
      5
    • 10% Passive Damage Reduction
      9
    • Activated Ability - Please post how long the activation period, and cooldown.
      18
    • Other
      8
    • No Change
      99


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Also to clear up - level 11 love is 1.5x healing bonuses, not 2x (LT might be double tho, everything else is 1.5), I believe the level up message states "double healing" but the ingame tool tip says 1.5 and I have only experienced 1.5.

 

Maybe our testing is different but when I had level 11 love, the double healing was clearly double.  I think the best wound I bandaged was almost 30 dmg with 99ql cotton and 70 first aid

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Speaking as strictly a Wurm non-pvper, it seems to me that the meditation abilities make the rather common (in Wurm only) mistake of trying to balance combat and non-combat abilities. It would make a LOT of sense to me to strip down all the paths and rework them so that at each tier they each get one non-combat perk (each comparable to the other) and one combat perk (again, each comparable to each other). These things need to have similar mechanics such that if the level X ability one is constant and passive, it is the same on all. At level Y everybody gets a 1x/day activated combat buff. Level Z gives an ability that procs when something external happens to you etc.


 


I know a lot of people think the asymmetry of the med/priest mechanics in Wurm is part of the fun (and it very well could be if done right) but it is also the source of why the game is so horribly unbalanced. At the very least using the same functional template would mean that level 7 of this path isn't better than level 10 of the other or that one path or the other is useless in a pure pvp/pure non-pvp environment.


 


edit: pre-tea grammar


Edited by Othob Rithol

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In reply to Kagrenac:

 

What is your point?  If you have higher skill you are better at using that skill, what is the problem?  Seriously, you are playing the wrong game if you see a problem with that.  

 

Gone, Saint, Vibrant Light, Enlightened, and Free all require 70 skill. 70 = 70 = 70 = 70 = 70. The difference here is that one is vastly superior to all the others.

 

If you had 90 in the skill weaponless fighting because you want to be some kind of Bruce Lee, would you complain about the other accounts that had 90 in the longsword skill that were more powerful than you in pvp?

 

90 longsword skill doesn't give you insane damage reduction, it just boosts your ability to use that specific weapon. A guy with an axe can still have a fighting chance against someone with a sword. Gone vs. non-gone is a huge difference. 90 longsword vs. 90 large axe isn't. No one runs from a group because they have someone with 99 in any combat related skill

(any weapon, archery, fighting, etc.). People don't even run from groups that have people with have 70+ body. People run from groups with gone.

 

You could argue that gone discourages PvP in the same way mine hops, gate hops, etc. did. People just run because they won't bother fighting against something that is so broken.

 

My point of view is strictly from playing on Chaos.  If SOTG is a problem on Epic then amend your suggestions to changing the rules on Epic only please.

 

It has nothing to do with server/cluster choice. Gone is overpowered regardless. It's arguably more overpowered on Chaos because of the dominant strategies regarding Valrei buff and artifact stacking, although that is a much bigger issue.

 

In reply to Gavin:

 

Where does it say that meditation must create diversity and its wrong if more players pick one path over another if those players are enjoying the same facet of the game?  

 

Where does it say any of this is right or wrong? This is a game balance issue, which is more common sense than written rules. What's wrong with it is when it is a clearly superior option instead of a situational or subjectively more useful choice.

 

SOTG is powerful, yes, anything that takes a minimum of 190 days should be.  How is it overpowered when others can still attain it?  We have no problem killing players with shield of the gone, they just take different tactics and a few extra hits.  Chaos is not about your ability to 1v1 someone, it's about your ability to improve your kingdom.

 

There is no justification for something to be overpowered. Allowing everyone to attain is irrelevant to whether or not it is overpowered. If everyone could attain the ability to insta-kill, does that prevent it from being overpowered? No. It just means that even more people have overpowered abilities. Slowing the time-to-kill against another player in any PvP scenario, regardless of the game, by 50% is horribly broken and overpowered. It effectively gives them the health of two players. That is something that can't even be argued with.

 

Overpowered is an account that took advantage of exploits and/or several years worth of "windows of opportunity" that newer players will never have the chance to do, that is overpowered.

 

Once again, no. Exploiting is cheating and is supposed to be dealt with by GMs. Windows of opportunity are unfair and often create imbalance, but they don't necessarily make features overpowered. Overpowered is an issue of practical game mechanics and player developed strategies, not acts that break the EULA or poor patch implementations.

 

Shield of the gone had/has a window of opportunity on Freedom/Chaos where people got it through enlightening before the changes. I don't think anyone on Epic got it that way under the old system because no one had met the 90 meditation requirement to enlighten from 10 to 11.

 

 

Reducing the bonus at all will just cause hate (with its easily-acquired 50% damage bonus and far more useful secondary abilities) to become the dominant choice. And putting it on a timer won't do anything in most cases, because most people don't PvP frequently enough for it to matter. It's a lose-lose.

 

This.

 

Honestly id like best if all meditation was just removed from the game (probably the only one with this opinion), creates too many stupid arguments about this being op and that being op, but then of course i also want all priest abilities removed as well, guess im just the type of person that doesn't like too much fantasy stuff. 

 

Actually, I think a lot of people would prefer going back to having no meditation (and karma). I would. Priests should stay, but need a rework, which would be a lot easier without meditation. Unfortunately, Rolf isn't just going to remove a broken feature when we have had it for four-ish years now.

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I don't get the whole "they will/wont run from this or that group" nonsense, gone doesn't make someone scary, or champs either. When half/most the people that champed did it, we'd laugh and talk about how we'd get everyone without slayer of champions the title.  Or tonygreen champing for the 57th time to only dechamp in under a day.  


 


I'm more scared of a capable fighter that knows what he's doing and very good at it than some random guy with gone/champ or whatever, and you'll find most people that have been pvping a long time and know what's up think the same way


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Or tonygreen champing for the 57th time 

 

Holy... I didn't realize his stamina was THAT low.

 

People do decide whether they will fight based on the strengths and weaknesses of their enemies, including shield of the gone. That's just the latest example, previously people wouldn't fight BL on boats because of the spells, people wouldn't fight BL on land because of axe-wielding zombie champ trolls, before that it was...

 

People use gone as a deciding factor. It's not the only deciding factor, but it is a big one because of the effect. It's the same concept Propheteer argued against barded horses - it's an additional health bar. You effectively have to kill that person twice. Maybe they only have the damage output of one person, but they have the health of two. While you're busy killing that conjoined twin, everyone else on his side is killing your normally formed people. Of course you kill the gone last, but you run out of non-gone when a large part of the enemy's force is gone.

 

I'm not really sure if anyone really thinks about what these nicknames for different groups mean, but they usually denote some kind of notability. JK had the "Gank Squad/Zerglings", MR has the "Gone Squad", BL had the "BL Navy". All three of these represented some kind of tactic or mechanic that raised question or controversy - numbers, shield of the gone, and spell spam, respectively. People didn't/don't like to fight any of these, hence the nickname. Sure, they aren't parts of the game code, but it does mean something when the community of a given server or cluster comes up with things like these.

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I'm not really sure if anyone really thinks about what these nicknames for different groups mean, but they usually denote some kind of notability. JK had the "Gank Squad/Zerglings", MR has the "Gone Squad", BL had the "BL Navy". All three of these represented some kind of tactic or mechanic that raised question or controversy - numbers, shield of the gone, and spell spam, respectively. People didn't/don't like to fight any of these, hence the nickname. Sure, they aren't parts of the game code, but it does mean something when the community of a given server or cluster comes up with things like these.

 

People look at it and laugh at how dumb they are.  Since I'm MR, it's gone squad that we're called, which reminds me of how everyone is apparently assumed to have gone in MR, despite them even dying to the same people which clearly would show they don't have it.  MR only has like 3 active people with gone in one time zone range, and 2 in a different time zone range.  It's not like we have 10 gones ready to login and wreck people, even 5 would be an extreme that doesn't happen often at all

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Math is completely objective and has no argument against it. Turbonerd incoming.
 
To point out the high effectiveness of shield of the gone compared to non-gone players, I have used some known damage modifiers and assumed damage values to calculate how much damage players using specific armor sets with and without gone would receive. The "assumed damage values" represent amounts of damage across a wide scale that players wearing 85ql steel plate without shield of the gone may suffer after damage reduction. These values were used with the known damage modifiers to calculate the damage that other combinations would receive. The assumed values are 10, 20, 35, 50, and 100. For instance, a player in 85ql steel plate without shield of the gone may take 10 damage, and the goal is to find out how much damage a player with a different combination of armor set and gone/non-gone would take from that same hit.
 
Each combination is representative of what one might expect to find in a normal PvP scenario. All armors are assumed to be 85ql for consistency. Final values are rounded to the nearest ten thousandth. Magranon damage bonus is 25% extra damage with a multiplier of 1.25. Level 7 hate damage bonus is 50% extra damage with a multiplier of 1.5. The purple values under combinations that include shield of the gone also represent the damage that would be dealt to a player with shield of the gone if the passive damage reduction was nerfed to 25% instead of the current 50%.
 
The bold dark green values represent the assumed damage values. The final damage values follow, formatted as:
 
damage | damage from enemy with Magranon priest damage bonus | damage from enemy with level 7 path of hate damage bonus
 
The assumed value of 100 was chosen to show the health of a player with a given combination has when a player using 85ql steel plate has been killed with exactly 100.0000 points of damage.
 
85ql Steel Plate/Drake 


68.5375% damage reduction
0.314625 damage multiplier
 
10        10.0000 | 12.5000 | 15.0000
20        20.0000 | 25.0000 | 30.0000
35        35.0000 | 43.7500 | 52.5000
50        50.0000 | 62.5000 | 75.0000
100      100.0000 | 125.0000 | 150.0000


 
85ql Steel Plate/Drake + Shield of the Gone


84.26875% damage reduction
0.1273125 damage multiplier
 
10        5.0000 | 6.2500 | 7.5000
20        10.0000 | 12.5000 | 15.0000
35        17.5000 | 21.8750 | 26.2500
50        25.0000 | 31.2500 | 37.5000
100      50.0000 | 62.5000 | 75.0000


 
85ql Adamantine Plate/Scale


73.425% damage reduction
0.26575 damage multiplier
 
10        8.4466 | 10.5583 | 12.6699
20        16.8931 | 21.1164 | 25.3397
35        29.5630 | 36.9537 | 34.3445
50        42.2328 | 52.7910 | 63.3492
100      84.4656 | 105.5820 | 126.6985


 
85ql Adamantine Plate/Scale + Shield of the Gone


86.7125% damage reduction
0.132875 damage multiplier
 
10        4.2233 | 5.2791 | 6.3349
20        8.4466 | 10.5582 | 12.6698
35        14.7815 | 18.4769 | 22.1722
50        21.1164 | 26.3955 | 31.6746
100      42.3328 | 52.7910 | 63.3492


 
85ql Glimmersteel/Seryll Plate


78.3125% damage reduction
0.2168 damage modifier
 
10        6.8907 | 8.6134 | 10.3361
20        13.7815 | 17.2269 | 20.6722
35        24.1176 | 30.1470 | 36.1764
50        34.4537 | 43.0671 | 51.6806
100      68.9074 | 86.1343 | 103.3011


 
85ql Glimmersteel/Seryll Plate + Shield of the Gone


89.16% damage reduction
0.1084 damage multiplier
 
10        3.4454 | 4.3067 | 5.1681
20        6.8907 | 8.6134 | 10.3361
35        12.0588 | 15.0735 | 18.0882
50        17.2269 | 21.5336 | 25.8403
100      34.4537 | 43.0671 | 51.6806


 
Now for the (barely) subjective part:
 
According to these calculations, a player with 85ql glimmersteel plate and shield of the gone is at about two thirds of his maximum health while a player with 85ql steel plate without shield of the gone is dead with exactly 100.0000 points of damage. This is nothing short of outlandish and blatantly overpowered.

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Except you're not just talking SoTG here now you are throwing in outside influences which have nothing to do with meditation to try and inflate it into something it isn't and make it look worse to serve your own cause, there are many players that have gone and no one considers not to fight them because they are bad at pvp so its not a deciding factor at all.

Perhaps you would like to make a new thread about stacked bonuses Nintendo if that is your beef but it doesn't really have a place here.

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Except you're not just talking SoTG here now you are throwing in outside influences which have nothing to do with meditation to try and inflate it into something it isn't and make it look worse to serve your own cause, there are many players that have gone and no one considers not to fight them because they are bad at pvp so its not a deciding factor at all.

Perhaps you would like to make a new thread about stacked bonuses Nintendo if that is your beef but it doesn't really have a place here.

 

Unless people are now PvPing in the nude, armor has to be calculated with it. I chose those three armors because they are common; I thought about studded leather + gone, but it seemed just a bit irrelevant.

 

I'd say that a mathematical or otherwise factual basis for anyone's opinion is more constructive and relevant than the unsupported speculations that we all have been posting, and I also think that calling it "self-serving" could be seen as an act of hypocrisy considering your choice of meditation path and your level on that path. Regardless, the amount of people using moon metal armor of some sort (especially helms) opens up this kind of argument. 

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Regardless, the amount of people using moon metal armor of some sort (especially helms) opens up this kind of argument. 

 

So when do we see threads asking to nerf glimmer/seryll armor especially considering that rare and above are almost the same damage reduction as gone alone compared to normal plate?

 

Exactly, you won't, nor does it have anything to do with gone, or this constructive discussion

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Except that Im not being dramatic to make any points of my own attempting to sway things in any direction, just pointing out yours so this 'act of hypocrisy' simply does not exist buddy


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So when do we see threads asking to nerf glimmer/seryll armor especially considering that rare and above are almost the same damage reduction as gone alone compared to normal plate?

Not really, saying that moonmetal plate is almost the same as gone when compared to normal plate is like saying if gone was nerfed to 25% it would be almost the same as it is now.

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Yes, gone and glimmer/seryll plate are stacked, but so are gone and steel plate. It's not that one is overpowered and the other isn't, it's that one is more overpowered than the other (effectively two health bars vs. three) because of a common factor (gone).


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So basically SoTG_is_OP wants SOTG nerfed, Kagrenac is backing him up. Most others say no. Hmm.. i really liked those numbers and i really loved how it is compared to Path of Hate... Heh, makes me laugh specially knowing the first thread which started with " i wanted to buy a SoTG account, but i could not, so please nerf!".


 


I dont think Champ or SoTG is OP. Pvp is rarely 1v1 and if you are out hunting with just a friend who has SoTG you cannot take on 4 ppl with same skills. It does not work. That is what you are saying, but that is no like that. Have seen Champ lose 1v1 and champ been killed 2 people. Same with SoTG. There was SoTG players who teled around and tried to get some kills, but mainly the kills came from experience and overall better skills (including wep, shield and FS), not from SoTG only. And in the end they got killed by 1 or 2 guys. Hek, JK bought Fevfev - SoTG account with good stats and he dies pretty much every time he gets involved. MR is the biggest kingdom and most of our members are not SoTG, but we still fight SoTG and Champs.


 


Instead of complaining and asking for a nerf, go out there and play. Enjoy.  Really don´t understand the statment about common sense.. Youre common sense is not the same as the persons who is next to you.


I hope devs go thru this and see that most of people don´t want the change and understand that it was alot of complaints from a few players, not from a lot of players. Pretty sure mainly complaining was the SoTG_is_OP and and some people who blaim their deaths on others instead of fighting as a team.


Edited by Argustin
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I hope devs go thru this and see that most of people don´t want the change and understand that it was alot of complaints from a few players, not from a lot of players. Pretty sure mainly complaining was the SoTG_is_OP and and some people who blaim their deaths on others instead of fighting as a team.

Every discussion about SoTG has been almost equal every time. Relying on the player base to make a fair discussion about an ability like this is not going to be simple because a lot of players want to change it for their own gain, especially for a game where you can legitimately make real life money from the change. I'd like the devs to analyse other games that offer passive damage reduction so they can see that very few offer anything as silly as 50% for the main combat style.

There doesn't need to be a big discussion on it because the proof has been shown in other games, passive damage reductions very rarely get tweaked upwards, it's generally always tweaked downwards to make it more balanced. You can not argue 'Wurm is not the same as other games' to justify the strength of SoTG. Passive reduction bonuses in other games are generally okay because there is usually different ways you can deal damage that is not covered by the ability but in Wurm, SoTG covers everything (Rolf claims certain things are covered but from my personal testing all physical and spell combat damage is reduced). There is no counter for SoTG, nothing to make you more vulnerable for the massive perk you have gained other than become a mag priest to attempt to get close to equalling it out.

Personally I don't believe the developers have looked into all the stackable buffs you can have to make yourself overpowered. I feel armour and weapons are okay other than the fact glimmersteel makes 3 second swing timer weapons pointless and the arrow glance rate change to plate not affecting drake/scale.

Feels as if the Devs think of a new ability to make you more powerful without looking at what it can stack with until later down the line. With very little method of de-buffing buffed players (only) it makes those who have the ability to stack all the bonuses the more dominant force. Wurm is already a numbers game and unless you can get more number than your enemy, or throw more super buffed players at the front of the fight than the enemy team you pretty much automatically lose unless to some unfortunate issue (bugs)

The only 'debuff' spell I actually know of is 'despell' which only affects casted abilities.

I find the game was much more enjoyable when it was more simple.

Another issue I find is with the valrei items, the initial release of them were good (I think if you had them all, you were 5% weaker in all areas with the perk of having all abilities) now I believe this was changed so you're overall 5% stronger in all areas ONTOP of having all these abilities. I also find it disheartening that the most powerful valrei abilities come with powerful damage reduction buffs too, while the worst abilities have the worst debuffs (bad ability + take more damage to a common damage type). But this is another story.

Edited by MetalDragon
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Pvp is rarely 1v1 That's correct. However, having 2-3 times as much health as another player because of a meditation path is broken.

 

There was SoTG players who teled around and tried to get some kills, but mainly the kills came from experience and overall better skills (including wep, shield and FS), not from SoTG only. And in the end they got killed by 1 or 2 guys.  This is an obvious reference to a single event - an MR SotG died to two JK non-gone. The MR was in plate, and JK were in drake. PvP is a lot easier when you are faster than your opponent. 

 

MR is the biggest kingdom and most of our members are not SoTG, but we still fight SoTG and Champs. When you can outnumber 30-50 to 10, gone doesn't matter on the smaller side. It does matter in the large side because their fighters become even harder to kill (once again, 2-3 health bars). 

 

Instead of complaining and asking for a nerf, go out there and play. Enjoy.  Really don´t understand the statment about common sense.. Youre common sense is not the same as the persons who is next to you. It is common sense that this game should be balanced for everyone, not made to favor people in a specific kingdom or who have a specific buff.

 

This entire thread is a bunch of sensible people arguing against something that is objectively overpowered; the math proves it. The rest are people who have gone or are aided by it in some way that don't want to have to actually try to fight, but fall back on a crutch.

 

Also, most others did not say no. Roughly 44% agreed to a nerf of some kind, with about 51% disagreeing. Of those 51% most gone players are in there voting for their self-interests instead of the benefit of the game. We're trying to make PvP easier and more fun to get into, not backward into an even more elitist "experience".

 

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/115025-to-pve-why-dont-you-pvp/?mode=show

 

PvP seems broken: 73 votes (73 > 52)

It doesn't state what is broken, but it means there is a problem. The shield of the gone "whining" as you may call it has been going on for a long time now and has just a bit more support than your average "nerf this cuz i died" thread. That's a good indicator that there is a problem. There are a lot of those indicators, but they are all being ignored.

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Also, most others did not say no. Roughly 44% agreed to a nerf of some kind, with about 51% disagreeing. Of those 51% most gone players are in there voting for their self-interests instead of the benefit of the game. We're trying to make PvP easier and more fun to get into, not backward into an even more elitist "experience".

 

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/115025-to-pve-why-dont-you-pvp/?mode=show

 

PvP seems broken: 73 votes (73 > 52)

 

That poll has been up since Dec 6th (approximately 24 days and counting), has 18 options you can select with the ability to select multiple options, and has 280 votes cast (and counting).

 

This poll has been up since Dec 24th (approximately 6 days and counting), has 8 options you can select without the option to select multiple answers, and has 101 votes cast (and counting).

 

Comparing them like you just did is not only wrong, its deliberately attempting to alter data in order to fit your bias opinion. A crime you just accused most of this thread of doing. What this thread has been proving that is the majority of people think something is wrong with PvP balance. But many (approximately 50% of them) do not think nerfing Shield of the Gone is a solution and a wider look at the mechanics is necessary. You obviously want SotG rebalanced, but what this thread (as a majority) is saying is that just nerfing SotG is not a solution and should not be taken as its only harming a small portion of the PvP playerbase and not addressing the real issue.

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But many (approximately 50% of them) do not think nerfing Shield of the Gone is a solution and a wider look at the mechanics is necessary. You obviously want SotG rebalanced, but what this thread (as a majority) is saying is that just nerfing SotG is not a solution and should not be taken as its only harming a small portion of the PvP playerbase and not addressing the real issue.

50% is not really much of a majority,and SoTG is broken because of HOW the mechanics work.

People say things like body stats matter, armor also gives op damage reduction etc.

SoTG doubles the bonus any of that gives you.

 

People also tend to ignore facts and say things like love is viable too, when loves lvl 11 ability is automatically included in SoTG (except better because you get 2x hp, the 2x lt (as half wounds+normal lt=2x lt), and effectively 2x self healing with cotton instead of 1.5, the only place love has an advantage is in healing others.)

 

Really the only arguments I have seen against nerfing it is that "it is hard to get, so it is ok that it gives an insane bonus", or other power is also just as good(except no one uses it, while gone is what almost everyone with 70 meditating chooses.)

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Really the only arguments I have seen against nerfing it is that "it is hard to get, so it is ok that it gives an insane bonus", or other power is also just as good(except no one uses it, while gone is what almost everyone with 70 meditating chooses.)

 

I originally created this thread with the opinion that maybe 10% of the voters would select 'No Change'. I expected the votes to fall within the percentage rebalances and for a discussion to grow about just how much of a rebalance was needed to SotG. However, I was surprised to find out that a majority (as defined as 50% of the whole or greater) felt reducing the Damage Reduction percentage for Shield of the Gone was not something they wanted.

 

The burden of proof is obviously not "how should SotG be rebalanced" but "should SotG be rebalanced". You should not be saying "I have not heard any good arguments against nerfing", you should be saying "The arguments against nerfing are not convincing people it needs to be nerfed". Its quite obvious to me, now, that most players don't think SotG should be nerfed. Where previously it felt like only a small minority really felt it should go unchanged. I went into this accepting that SotG was overwhelmingly in negative opinion and a reduction was upcoming. That is not the case.

 

One thing I have noticed immensely, is that almost everyone arguing for a SotG change has not stated what they feel would be a good rebalance. If you really don't like SotG as it currently stands then please, tell me exactly what you think would be the best option to fix it. So far the overall voice of opposition I'm hearing is 'its broken'. And not 'its broken and this is how it should be fixed'.

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I originally created this thread with the opinion that maybe 10% of the voters would select 'No Change'.

That is very surprising to me, considering previous threads on the matter.

They generally go ~50% nerf ~50% stay the same.

 

 

The burden of proof is obviously not "how should SotG be rebalanced" but "should SotG be rebalanced". You should not be saying "I have not heard any good arguments against nerfing", you should be saying "The arguments against nerfing are not convincing people it needs to be nerfed". Its quite obvious to me, now, that most players don't think SotG should be nerfed. Where previously it felt like only a small minority really felt it should go unchanged. I went into this accepting that SotG was overwhelmingly in negative opinion and a reduction was upcoming. That is not the case.

It is rather difficult to convince people that posses something overpowered that it should be changed.

People feel that they worked to get it, so anyone can do so, and if anyone can get an ability it cant be overpowered.

Of course that isn't at all true, but that seems to be the reasoning for a lot of people voting that SoTG should stay as it is.

 

Saying that it is obvious that most people don't think it should be nerfed is a strange statement, since it is a pretty even split between people who think it should be and shouldn't be.

 

 

One thing I have noticed immensely, is that almost everyone arguing for a SotG change has not stated what they feel would be a good rebalance. If you really don't like SotG as it currently stands then please, tell me exactly what you think would be the best option to fix it. So far the overall voice of opposition I'm hearing is 'its broken'. And not 'its broken and this is how it should be fixed'.

 

Reducing the % so it isn't such a huge bonus is a common suggestion for rebalance, making the downside actually matter is another.

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One thing I have noticed immensely, is that almost everyone arguing for a SotG change has not stated what they feel would be a good rebalance. If you really don't like SotG as it currently stands then please, tell me exactly what you think would be the best option to fix it. So far the overall voice of opposition I'm hearing is 'its broken'. And not 'its broken and this is how it should be fixed'.

You must not have read the many previous discussions for suggestions, regardless of that you provided suggestions in the poll so isny needed to explain unless selecting 'other'

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That poll has been up since Dec 6th (approximately 24 days and counting), has 18 options you can select with the ability to select multiple options, and has 280 votes cast (and counting).

 

This poll has been up since Dec 24th (approximately 6 days and counting), has 8 options you can select without the option to select multiple answers, and has 101 votes cast (and counting).

 

Comparing them like you just did is not only wrong, its deliberately attempting to alter data in order to fit your bias opinion. A crime you just accused most of this thread of doing. What this thread has been proving that is the majority of people think something is wrong with PvP balance. But many (approximately 50% of them) do not think nerfing Shield of the Gone is a solution and a wider look at the mechanics is necessary. You obviously want SotG rebalanced, but what this thread (as a majority) is saying is that just nerfing SotG is not a solution and should not be taken as its only harming a small portion of the PvP playerbase and not addressing the real issue.

 

 

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/115025-to-pve-why-dont-you-pvp/?mode=show

 

PvP seems broken: 73 votes (73 > 52)

It doesn't state what is broken, but it means there is a problem. The shield of the gone "whining" as you may call it has been going on for a long time now and has just a bit more support than your average "nerf this cuz i died" thread. That's a good indicator that there is a problem. There are a lot of those indicators, but they are all being ignored.

 

Gone is just one broken aspect. Don't worry, I haven't forgotten about priests, buff-stacking, karma, weapon usefulness/balance, archery, casting RNG (for gear replacement), horse shoe and arrow creation/improvement, Valrei and Valrei mobs, equipped zombie trolls, hell horses, variety and viability of gear (armor, weapons, bows), the rest of the meditation system, etc.

 

Addressing other arguments:

 

1. The abuse of "self-serving" as a buzz word: Players who want gone to stay are ones making self-serving arguments. The ones who want it nerfed are thinking about the benefit of the game in the long run. The sheer power and usefulness of shield of the gone combined with its nonexistent downsides do nothing but hurt the PvP side of the game. Gone makes it even harder for newbies to get into PvP and only benefits veterans who have put over a year into meditation or people who have bought an account. 

 

2. It took a long time, so it should be OP: No. There is no justification for overpowered. This is the epitome of a self-serving argument.

 

3. Argument against damage (reduction) values including armor with gone: No one goes out nude, with or without gone. Including the armor shows what you would normally expect. Including other buffs would be a biased argument because not everyone has or uses them. Everyone wears armor.

 

4. I or someone I know died with gone, so it's not OP: No one is completely invincible. Gone increases your life span in any engagement by a factor of 2-3. This increases your potential damage output for the given scenario by the same value, allows you to take more hits than any other player based on one ability, thus giving your allies (usually also gone, as gone is usually targeted last), more time to attack or retreat, and makes you a monster at a mine/gate hop. You can die, but it is much harder and time consuming to kill you.

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