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Constructive Discussion on Shield of the Gone

Changes to Shield of the Gone  

192 members have voted

  1. 1. If Shield of the Gone is nerfed, what do you feel is an appropriate change?

    • 30% Passive Damage Reduction
      6
    • 25% Passive Damage Reduction
      30
    • 20% Passive Damage Reduction
      17
    • 15% Passive Damage Reduction
      5
    • 10% Passive Damage Reduction
      9
    • Activated Ability - Please post how long the activation period, and cooldown.
      18
    • Other
      8
    • No Change
      99


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I've come to the conclusion that arguing anything anymore is beyond pointless now, especially with nintendojoe


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>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84vb24L0P68&list=UU6lOK2rQl5a6cHMGx46iSpg&spfreload=10

 

Just gonna leave this here as some food for thought since people keep arguing double health is such a game changer, at no point in this video does double health save or change the outcome, even without shield of the gone that 1v2 would have had the same result.

 

In other fights it makes no difference when you watch the enemy all target different people and you just laugh because they dont work together, tactics play a very large hand in how things go down.

 

If i can come out of a fight with over 50% health i know sotg didnt save me, if i can see my enemy with sotg dead i know it certainly didnt save them

 

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoesYjpzwAI&feature=youtu.be

 

One more video, this is a 4v8 except it may as well have been 3v8 thanks to boat vision issues, if they had swamped us instead of trying to scatter they would have killed at least one of us if not more, gone didnt help us wipe out twice our numbers we werent even in danger. Something like this is an example of what is not fun, sure we got kills but there was no rush no excitement because it was too easy. People think it is Shield of the Gone that is an issue when its just tactics that make the difference, I dont have a video of people with gone dying but they are not gods they are not invincible and they do die, ive certainly died with it.

 

I just dont get the point in playing wurm if we cant be allowed to be better than a new player, i dont understand people arguing that it will take some time for a new player to work towards the same thing. Why does a new player have to be balanced with an end game reward, if they do then why do we grind anything at all if we cant be better or stronger, why is it ok for lower level meditation perks to be unbalanced and drag level 11 insanity down when it has nothing of value before it and make it cancelled out by something that takes two weeks of skill to get.

 

People are scared of the bogey man under the bed but he just isnt there. We all know that a handfull of brand new accounts from the tutorial can take down a vet player, because wurm is primarily about player numbers and tactics, unfortunately not about how strong your account is.

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I feel that people trained to that ability for a reason. Their effort may have been put elsewhere had they had known it was going to change. My vote is to keep it the same as it is.


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I would like to see more input from players who have used or fought with or against SOTG accounts in pvp on a "wurm regular" basis.


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Just gonna leave this here as some food for thought since people keep arguing double health is such a game changer, at no point in this video does double health save or change the outcome, even without shield of the gone that 1v2 would have had the same result.

That video really does nothing but show how strong Garys account is (and how dumb using a huge axe is), just because gone didn't do anything in that instance doesn't make gone not imbalanced.

 

 

One more video, this is a 4v8 except it may as well have been 3v8 thanks to boat vision issues, if they had swamped us instead of trying to scatter they would have killed at least one of us if not more, gone didnt help us wipe out twice our numbers we werent even in danger. Something like this is an example of what is not fun, sure we got kills but there was no rush no excitement because it was too easy. People think it is Shield of the Gone that is an issue when its just tactics that make the difference, I dont have a video of people with gone dying but they are not gods they are not invincible and they do die, ive certainly died with it.

Yes, tactics make a difference but having gone heavily weighs the fight in your favor.

I remember a 2v2 vs you and Gary with Iorveth on MRH, where we very nearly killed you (and then I got critted and died in a couple hits). If you had had gone, we would have had no chance. (and would probably have chosen not to fight)

 

 

If i can come out of a fight with over 50% health i know sotg didnt save me, if i can see my enemy with sotg dead i know it certainly didnt save them

It can easily help you even if you didn't go under 50%, you have a much larger pool of stamina than you would without it, and simply having it deters people from targeting you over weaker targets.

 

If someone dies with it, they lasted twice as long as they would have without it and contributed much more to a fight.

 

 

 

 

I just dont get the point in playing wurm if we cant be allowed to be better than a new player, i dont understand people arguing that it will take some time for a new player to work towards the same thing. Why does a new player have to be balanced with an end game reward, if they do then why do we grind anything at all if we cant be better or stronger, why is it ok for lower level meditation perks to be unbalanced and drag level 11 insanity down when it has nothing of value before it and make it cancelled out by something that takes two weeks of skill to get.

You are already miles ahead of any new player, glimmer armor, weapons, high stats/skills.

Gone takes all the defensive aspects of that and doubles it (shield skill, shield, armor, bodystats, cr, etc).

Why do you feel you need that advantage?

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I remember a 2v2 vs you and Gary with Iorveth on MRH, where we very nearly killed you (and then I got critted and died in a couple hits). If you had had gone, we would have had no chance. (and would probably have chosen not to fight)

 

I don't remember her almost dying, but if so, is the end result not the same...?  You chose to fight but lost because we had better accounts regardless as well as the cr buff on our side, choosing not to fight would mean you wouldn't have died and we didn't have gone

 

Edit:  it also showed how stupid mine hopping is more than anything, if mine hopping wasn't a thing back then we'd have most likely killed both without an issue

Edited by MrGARY

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sotg increases your lifespan? well so does healing spells.


and sotg healing spells have less effect, so healing spells increase your lifespan the same as sotg. simple counter.


 


so, fo priest that is path of hate counters non fo priest that is sotg.


 


 


 


has any testing been done on test server with different priests vs sotg characters? without items?


 


that is the real test. if not, then there is no proof sotg is too op. do video testing please. kthanks.


Edited by Horsch

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So, are we to infer that an sotg Fo priest would be op, kek

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no, cause sotg has less healing? and fo priest with path of hate does more dmg with the path of hate?

so fo priest with path of hate > fo priest sotg.

there we go, path of hate is more op with fo priest then sotg.

case solved. go video record test that on test server.

:)

Edited by Fooligun

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Please tell me how to counter/negate someone having 2x health.

Is there some super secret way to use strategy to do double damage to gone players???

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Congrats, go figure, epic is dead.


Reason: Rolf making too many servers for a relatively small sized game in terms of players.


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Reason: no one wants to play in a rigged environment they have to pay money for to compete against OP crap.


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Reason: no one wants to play in a rigged environment they have to pay money for to compete against OP crap.

 

so, you're saying, wurm would get a massive amount of players if sotg wasn't as you say " OP" ?

 

i highly doubt that is an accurate statement. by far.

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Unless people are now PvPing in the nude, armor has to be calculated with it. I chose those three armors because they are common; I thought about studded leather + gone, but it seemed just a bit irrelevant.

 

I'd say that a mathematical or otherwise factual basis for anyone's opinion is more constructive and relevant than the unsupported speculations that we all have been posting, and I also think that calling it "self-serving" could be seen as an act of hypocrisy considering your choice of meditation path and your level on that path. Regardless, the amount of people using moon metal armor of some sort (especially helms) opens up this kind of argument. 

 

There is a difference between mathematical values, and how it translates into wurm.   I've seen many people try to predict things in Wurm using different mathematical predictions, that mostly were bogus and came nowhere to the reality of actual PvP in wurm.   In many ways its why we have such a clunky system.  

 

You started this topic just to stand on a soapbox and say that you had an open and shut case because you can predict everything, but I don't see videos of you out there using it or testing it.  Most of the responses I've seen here by people who have it or have used it don't mesh with the skewed reality you represent.    If you want to convince me or others, show us your own videos where it is so overpowered it demands you trying to bombard almost every topic on this forum you participate in in some sort of holy crusade to change it.   

 

Most of us don't want it changed, at least not in the way you want it simply because we play on Chaos and other PvP servers and don't have as big an issue with it.   I've seen many constructive comments here, and many times you just blow them off because they don't fit with your agenda, not because they are good  or bad debates.   Your own responses to almost everything is to say "I'ts not constructive." and then you try to find another straw man argument to prop up or another angle that you think you can attack from and in none of this do I see any actual experience being shown that you have actually tried any of it on the servers.   

Edited by Battlepaw

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It's unbalanced by definition, both in theory and in practice. The argument over whether or not its unbalanced really ends here. Now it's about how to balance it. "It's fine as is" has been ruled out. Severely unbalanced features should not be in game, don't even bother.


 


The evidence given by Gary/Sme has flaws, including that it is cherry picked and that it involves home server advantage on his side, thus allowing him to make the "I wasn't at half health, SotG did nothing" argument even though he had a CR advantage from fighting on his home server and his account.


 


In addition, his open statement that he uses rare moon metal plate puts his damage reduction even higher. He really would have been dead somewhere between 59-66%% of his maximum, not 50%. Damage does have a scaling negative effect on some stats, although less than it used to. Reducing this by a huge amount skews the fight, regardless of how close he was to 50%, or some other meaningless number that only supports the "I wasn't that low, therefore gone did nothing for me" argument. Gone did do something, regardless of whether or not you choose to admit it.


 


50% is not most of us, by the way.


Edited by SotG_is_OP

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I feel that people trained to that ability for a reason. Their effort may have been put elsewhere had they had known it was going to change. My vote is to keep it the same as it is.

 

Rolf has managed to save people time in other 'changes' by offering a free transfer. This has been applied to the religion system once or twice now so there's really no reason to vote against it when developers have the methods to make the time spend getting somewhere not lost.

 

sotg increases your lifespan? well so does healing spells.

and sotg healing spells have less effect, so healing spells increase your lifespan the same as sotg. simple counter.

 

so, fo priest that is path of hate counters non fo priest that is sotg.

FWIW: healing spells have no different effect on SoTG players, they affect them just as much as they would after. As far as I'm aware the only healing SoTG negatively affects is Natural healing - by making healing ticks take twice as long? or a reduces heal per tick. Cotton healing, LT healing and other methods of healing are all normal.

Edited by MetalDragon

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It's unbalanced by definition, both in theory and in practice. The argument over whether or not its unbalanced really ends here. Now it's about how to balance it. "It's fine as is" has been ruled out. Severely unbalanced features should not be in game, don't even bother.

 

The evidence given by Gary/Sme has flaws, including that it is cherry picked and that it involves home server advantage on his side, thus allowing him to make the "I wasn't at half health, SotG did nothing" argument even though he had a CR advantage from fighting on his home server and his account.

 

In addition, his open statement%

 

I dont think you understand the meaning of "opinion".

 

All because you have one, it doesnt make it more valuable than others.

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Reason: people like TG feed negative outlooks of the game that are completely incorrect and based completely off of personal flaws and butthurt from defeat. Causing new players to lose interest in the game and quit. If you have nothing positive to say about the game then leave, we're not holding you here.

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It's unbalanced by definition, both in theory and in practice. The argument over whether or not its unbalanced really ends here. Now it's about how to balance it. "It's fine as is" has been ruled out. Severely unbalanced features should not be in game, don't even bother.

 

The evidence given by Gary/Sme has flaws, including that it is cherry picked and that it involves home server advantage on his side, thus allowing him to make the "I wasn't at half health, SotG did nothing" argument even though he had a CR advantage from fighting on his home server and his account.

 

In addition, his open statement that he uses rare moon metal plate puts his damage reduction even higher. He really would have been dead somewhere between 59-66%% of his maximum, not 50%. Damage does have a scaling negative effect on some stats, although less than it used to. Reducing this by a huge amount skews the fight, regardless of how close he was to 50%, or some other meaningless number that only supports the "I wasn't that low, therefore gone did nothing for me" argument. Gone did do something, regardless of whether or not you choose to admit it.

 

50% is not most of us, by the way.

 

I see you describing a lot of theory, but no actual situations where you could apply your own theories and either enforce their validity or disprove them and try something a bit more in touch with reality.  You can't say something is "unbalanced by definition" if it clearly doesn't work the way you are defining it.   I've seen very little of what your going on about actually apply to any of the fights or spars I've been in vs SOTG people.   If anything the weapon and tactics used make the single largest difference.   

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@Sotg_is_op you are preaching here all the time that gone is op but whats about all the other things like drake armour/moon metal amour/valrei items/artefacts and so on?

If i take your oppinion correct every item or skill or whatever you cant get is op?

Easiest way to DESTROY your arguements are artifacts...they are stronger than any weapon you can craft and they are even limited so what now? Should everyone gets his favorite artifact?

You just talking nonsense. If you want nice perk switch your medi path and it will be ok...you cant get everything in that game without afford!!!

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Weapon and tactics make no difference. Be honest with yourself, the most effective tactic is numbers and as scary as this playerbase is if you think anyone is walking into a fight outmatched your nuts. SOTG users by nature are even more cautious than someone without it. SOTG is their ace of spades.


 


An actual situation?


 


DOUBLE HEALTH BAR, for free, for running back and forth between two tiles ten tiles apart on deed for 7 months.


 


NO NEGATIVE TO GETTING IT, everything else in wurm has a system of checks and balances.


 


Imagine if the president had double the power of other branches of government,,,


 


It works very simply the way we are defining it. YOU  GET DOUBLE HEALTH BAR FOR RUNNING BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN TWO TILES FOR 7 MONTHS. WOOO HOO LETS GO COMPETE.


 


If it wasnt so OP their wouldnt be so many people saying it is and so many people saying there is no problem.


 


See MR/JK artifact threads through the years before Rolf finally admitted was flawed... gg...


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@Sotg_is_op you are preaching here all the time that gone is op but whats about all the other things like drake armour/moon metal amour/valrei items/artefacts and so on?

If i take your oppinion correct every item or skill or whatever you cant get is op?

Easiest way to DESTROY your arguements are artifacts...they are stronger than any weapon you can craft and they are even limited so what now? Should everyone gets his favorite artifact?

You just talking nonsense. If you want nice perk switch your medi path and it will be ok...you cant get everything in that game without afford!!!

 

No you are reading wrong bud. Every item is not OP. The OP crap is a double health bar for running back and forth on deed for 7 months hiding...

 

Artifacts? They have a system of checks and balances. you have to take risk to get them and keep them.

 

No risk for SOTG bud. Just pure free OP double health bar.

 

If we took your advice small mauls with their OP 3 second swing timers would have never been balanced and everyone in wurm would be pvping with small mauls only....

Edited by Youngsoldier

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Reason: people like TG feed negative outlooks of the game that are completely incorrect and based completely off of personal flaws and butthurt from defeat. Causing new players to lose interest in the game and quit. If you have nothing positive to say about the game then leave, we're not holding you here.

 

Plenty of positive to the game, SOTG is not one of them, it is a detriment, as well as the many players with poor attitudes like yourself.

Now your arguement is if I don't like SOTG then I shouldn't be playing? K.

 

Elevation players 15/400

 

How many more players do you want to quit since that is your solution to this?

Edited by Youngsoldier

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