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Constructive Discussion on Shield of the Gone

Changes to Shield of the Gone  

192 members have voted

  1. 1. If Shield of the Gone is nerfed, what do you feel is an appropriate change?

    • 30% Passive Damage Reduction
      6
    • 25% Passive Damage Reduction
      30
    • 20% Passive Damage Reduction
      17
    • 15% Passive Damage Reduction
      5
    • 10% Passive Damage Reduction
      9
    • Activated Ability - Please post how long the activation period, and cooldown.
      18
    • Other
      8
    • No Change
      99


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The variations in the paths are what make them unique, balanced or not its like chosing different characteristics in other MMOs... you could kit yourself out to be a full on warrior, or a mage, or a crafter etc etc..


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The variations in the paths are what make them unique, balanced or not its like chosing different characteristics in other MMOs... you could kit yourself out to be a full on warrior, or a mage, or a crafter etc etc..

Warriors weak to mages

Mages weak to archers

Archers weak to warriors

Gone weak to nothing.

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Warriors weak to mages

Mages weak to archers

Archers weak to warriors

Gone weak to nothing.

 

should be nuff siad...

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Yawn.

 

Obviously just looks like 1 or a small group of people cant be arsed to level to 70 meditating so they can bring down everyone else to their level.

 

It's funny Redd, you sound just like JK when they used to say Mr can't be asked to fight for the artifacts...

you honestly don't see that huh?

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You're one to talk about having a reasoned argument. Not a single time have i seen you provide a single valid way that it is op. Why complain about it being op anyway? Its available to everyone, so do what the people that have it did and work for it instead of complain about something you're too lazy to get. 

 

Free extra health bar don't sound op to you huh?

 

The artifacts used to be available to everyone too but everyone knew the system was broken except the JK who had them at the time who said " do something to get them".

 

When impenetrable vaults became common people said they weren't OP.

 

Hell people complained to get support beams nerfed because they were too OP. SUPPORT BEAMS.

 

Surface mining they whined about? Why whine when you can fill the holes with dirt?

 

SOTG is WAY more gamebreaking than other OP crap people have whined about to get nerfed.

 

They keep it the same votes are probably equally made up of people who have it and know its OP so will defend it to the death to defend their position and people who are about to get it... lol...

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I'm nowhere near getting gone, I'm not even trying to. I'm just not someone who whines about something they're too lazy to get. They worked for it, let them have their reward. For something that takes that long to get, it should be hella good, but no. I do not think its op. There's plenty of ways to counteract it, just have to use strategy, sorry if you're imcapable of doing that TG. Just because you cant win a fight doesn't mean you blame it on the first thing that the enemy has that you don't. Work for it, or don't Idrc, just get over it and stop complaining. Even if it was op, like I said in the past, there's not enough people that think so for Rolf to change anything anyway. Guarantee you half the people that voted no change don't have gone and aren't even close, and I'm sure some that have it voted for a change as well, that's not a valid argument for whining about why people are voting no change. It's not changing, accept it and move on.

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Hey bro, just because you worked to get something OP doesn't make it less OP. Nosyt busted her ass to get over 90 small maul before all the weapon skill changes that made it easy to do, guess what? 3 second swing timers were still Op....


 


See my comments to Redd, you sound the same.


 


More than 50% think its OP bro, thats a problem, this isnt 2 people whining like you have reduced yourself to claiming....


Rolf already said they need to take a look at it so you are wrong. you have no arguement left but to make false claims and poorly thought out posts...


I'll bet you your account to $1000 it gets changed? Are you so sure boss? Put your money where your mouth is.


 


Everyone can get it does not mean it's overpowered lol... gg...


Working to get somethign does not mean it is not overpowered...


 


Your arguments have no flesh in them, and your jimmies are rustled.


 


 


It's not whining wanting game balance.  Thats all the people who use OP crap have to say to back up their Opness.


All you have left to say is "shut up its not op"... defense mechanism kicking in there... lol


 


I worked hella hard surface mining a 300 steep pit 4 rows deep as my deed defense, didnt stop JK from getting it nerfed for being OP...


Lets see full free health bar for an action spammed in 100% safety of a deed... hmmmm ok...


Elevation players 17/400


Edited by Youngsoldier

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@MrGary

I base my information on Saint being 1.5x on the information provided by a Fo Priest. Saint affects healing abilities too, where Cure light heals 10, it gets buffed to 15, and the same calculation applies to medium and serious. This was back when the tool tip showed "double healing", this was reported to developers who then changed said tool tip to 1.5x iirc.

good post fooli - simple and spot on.

 

I'm nowhere near getting gone, I'm not even trying to. I'm just not someone who whines about something they're too lazy to get. They worked for it, let them have their reward. For something that takes that long to get, it should be hella good, but no. I do not think its op. There's plenty of ways to counteract it, just have to use strategy, sorry if you're imcapable of doing that TG. Just because you cant win a fight doesn't mean you blame it on the first thing that the enemy has that you don't. Work for it, or don't Idrc, just get over it and stop complaining. Even if it was op, like I said in the past, there's not enough people that think so for Rolf to change anything anyway. Guarantee you half the people that voted no change don't have gone and aren't even close, and I'm sure some that have it voted for a change as well, that's not a valid argument for whining about why people are voting no change. It's not changing, accept it and move on.

So everyone who supports the nerf are lazy people that cba to get it? That's a poor judgement. I have level 11 in a meditating skill, I went through that grind to get to level 11 in a path, am I lazy just because I didn't pick insanity from initial inspection? or will you now decide to call me lazy for not wanting to change path to get gone (and then I would have done 2x as much work). I choose not to because I have always anticipated some sort of re-work on meditating abilities as some paths / abilities are really awful compared to others, don't work well or OP imo. I'd rather swap path when (if) the system was reworked so I can pick the path that I'd consider more beneficial to myself.

I consider the path I'm on fairly balanced (love), apart from almost all abilities having a really good use compared to other paths the "elite" ability is easily counter able and the level 9 ability is pretty handy sometimes in pve albeit a little buggy. I personally feel in order to stand a better chance in PvP you NEED to be on the path of insanity. It's the only dominant meditation ability for pvp in the game.

 

There's plenty of ways to counteract it, just have to use strategy, sorry if you're imcapable of doing that TG.

I am curious about your multiple methods of countering a gone player so I'm going to ask you to help with three methods to counter it assuming the Gone player is a standard experience player.

Keeping in mind there is generally ingame mechanics that are supposed to get you out on top and everything the player can do, the SoTG player can also do.

The only things I personally can think of lies within the smarts of the player of luring away from the group and gank or throw more people on the said people than the other group can combat against which aren't really in game mechanics to counter it. - These are my ideas in order to keep a better Kill/Death ratio in a situation. Base your methods on how to get a better K/D ratio against a player or players where their side has SoTG (1-5 people) and your side lack any.

What baffles me the most about the whole meditation ability is generally games offer the same opposing ability with a similar nerf to counter it (so 2x damage passive) where this game doesn't, not in the slightest which screams players who want to be the most successful in pvp to use that path.

Not only that, the game offers a superior styled account (champion) which can be met on par or bettered if you just select and obtain a few things and is permanent. I can turn my own account into a 'champion' without the added bonus of instant +5 in body stats and 50 in priest skills.

Obtain SoTG = +50% damage reduction

Obtain specific Valrei items = +5% additional damage reduction

Obtain other specific valrei items = 5% or 15% damage reduction from SWORDS and MAULS (with 10% debuff on the other if only one selected)

Become priest and sermon to 100 faith

Grind channeling to 70 or 90

This gives you equal or MORE damage reduction (in some cases) to your main combat style in PvP, and all the other abilities a champion gets are obtainable with some effort. There's pretty much no reason to be a champion which offers you a whole point in characteristic reduction and a temporary bonus to priest stats characteristics when the game offers exactly the same to those who chase it (minus characteristic reduction)

Whole point in a champion is not to be comparable to it to have that massive bonus over other players, but nowadays players can be more beneficial than champions, and they are not capped to 3 maximum. Where is the thought in the whole process.

Edited by MetalDragon
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There's plenty of ways to counteract it, just have to use strategy, sorry if you're imcapable of doing that TG.

Please tell me how to counter/negate someone having 2x health.

 

 

Is there some super secret way to use strategy to do double damage to gone players???

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question, does mag priest passive 25% dmg buff, and path of hate dmg buff stack together? just wondering.


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question, does mag priest passive 25% dmg buff, and path of hate dmg buff stack together? just wondering.

No

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Please tell me how to counter/negate someone having 2x health.

 

 

Is there some super secret way to use strategy to do double damage to gone players???

WL fo priest spells are very powerful ways to counter it. Tell me this, do you target someone before you kill their horse? No? can you put SoTG on a horse? No, can you put shell on a horse AND yourself? yes, why yes you can. 

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WL fo priest spells are very powerful ways to counter it. Tell me this, do you target someone before you kill their horse? No? can you put SoTG on a horse? No, can you put shell on a horse AND yourself? yes, why yes you can.

Can you put armour on yourself? Yes?

Can you put armour on a horse? Yes?

Can you put armour on yourself AND Gone? Yes?

Can you put armour on yourself, a horse AND have gone? Yes?

Fo priests have counters, armour has counters, spells have counters, what is the counter for Gone? (A viable game mechanic)

Edited by Fooligun
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Can you put armour on yourself? Yes?

Can you put armour on a horse? Yes?

Can you put armour on yourself AND Gone? Yes?

Can you put armour on yourself, a horse AND have gone? Yes?

As yet, have yet to say what the counter to Gone is?

Fo spells can be countered by attacking the player, they have cooldowns, priests are unable to craft and gain many stats, they require favor/vesseled gems in supply etc etc. They can be countered.

So what everyone is saying is that theres something wrong with being an end game pvp attribute to work for? Because thats what SoTG is. Anyone who wants to pvp should work for it, no excuses. So what if theres not much you can counter it with? It is available to everyone.  That by itself is enough to prove that SoTG is not op. Also, there have been many occasions where sotg users lose fights, just because they have no idea wtf theyre doing. Its really not that game changing, especially in larger fights, there are more important factors in combat such as armor ql and enchants, effective use of priests, taking out horses, weapon ql, everyone focusing the same person, taking out priests before anyone else, knowing who the enemy commander is and getting rid of him so once hes dead the enemy is left running around like a chicken with its head cut off. These are all way more important than which side has more SoTG users than the other, and really there arent even that many people with SoTG. Idk who started the most recent complaints about SoTG being op, but if i had to guess id say its someone who keeps losing fights to mr on elevation, and sees a few names that have gone beside them. Probably where the name "gone squad" came from. MRE has some of the most experienced pvpers on the cluster, dont you think theyre doing something else right besides having SoTG? Watch videos recorded from their perspective then look back at the way your side fought, and i guarantee you'll see more than one reason of why you lost. This goes for anyone too, not just elevation.

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It is available to everyone.  

This is actually one of the reasons why I consider it OP. It's available to everyone, and stacks with almost anything, with no drawbacks for having it (aka it's a must have for stacking bonuses)

There is no opposition for the buff, at the very least in any game there's usually a 2 way system minimum!!

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WL fo priest spells are very powerful ways to counter it. Tell me this, do you target someone before you kill their horse? No? can you put SoTG on a horse? No, can you put shell on a horse AND yourself? yes, why yes you can. 

Except that isn't a counter.

You are doing nothing to negate gone, you are doing nothing about them having gone, you are just fighting as normal.

 

 

It is available to everyone.  That by itself is enough to prove that SoTG is not op.

So if meditation had an ability that oneshots anyone you target and activate it on once you get 90 skill, that would not be op since anyone could get it.

 

 

Also, there have been many occasions where sotg users lose fights, just because they have no idea wtf theyre doing. Its really not that game changing, especially in larger fights, there are more important factors in combat such as armor ql and enchants.

Ok?

Just because something doesnt make you 100% invincible doesn't make it not imbalanced.

And gone is really more important than armor, gone+steel plate is considerably better than glimmer/seryll plate. Of course, if you do have glimmer/seryll plate it doubles the advantage you get from it.

 

 

 

everyone focusing the same person, taking out priests before anyone else, knowing who the enemy commander is and getting rid of him so once hes dead the enemy is left running around like a chicken with its head cut off.

 

Gone really does matter in group pvp too, people take twice as long to kill, they stay alive longer to focus people, if they are calling shots, they last twice as long, if they are a priest, they last twice as long.

Edited by Kagrenac

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@MrGary

I base my information on Saint being 1.5x on the information provided by a Fo Priest. Saint affects healing abilities too, where Cure light heals 10, it gets buffed to 15, and the same calculation applies to medium and serious. This was back when the tool tip showed "double healing", this was reported to developers who then changed said tool tip to 1.5x iirc.

 

I don't believe it's supposed to affect healing spells (I never tried it), it was never asked/labeled as such, and cure light can already heal 15 dmg as is

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I choose not to because I have always anticipated some sort of re-work on meditating abilities as some paths / abilities are really awful compared to others, don't work well or OP imo. I'd rather swap path when (if) the system was reworked so I can pick the path that I'd consider more beneficial to myself.

 

If/when this gets fixed, Rolf should give a free path change just like he did for pole arms and religion when Wild became Chaos.

 

So what everyone is saying is that theres something wrong with being an end game pvp attribute to work for? Elevation 16/400   Is this endgame enough for you? 

 

Because thats what SoTG is. Anyone who wants to pvp should work for it, no excuses. So what if theres not much you can counter it with? It is available to everyone.  That by itself is enough to prove that SoTG is not op. Hell horses were/are available to everyone also. So are artifacts, you just have to kill the buff-stacked super soldier carrying 3 of them first. So are Libila spells, just convert. So is literally everything in this entire game given some sort of effort. This argument is completely invalid.

 

Also, there have been many occasions where sotg users lose fights, just because they have no idea wtf theyre doing. Its really not that game changing, SotG isn't exclusive to newbies with magical pieces of plastic.

 

knowing who the enemy commander is and getting rid of him so once hes dead the enemy is left running around like a chicken with its head cut off. Except that a lot of leaders have gone and any skilled PvP group will have more than one leader and decisive players to take over in an emergency (many of whom also have gone).

 

Probably where the name "gone squad" came from. MRE has some of the most experienced pvpers on the cluster, dont you think theyre doing something else right besides having SoTG? Watch videos recorded from their perspective then look back at the way your side fought, and i guarantee you'll see more than one reason of why you lost. This goes for anyone too, not just elevation.  Really? I couldn't tell back before they had "the gone squad", they barely left deed. This goes for all kingdoms. People only leave when they think there is no risk. No one with experience wants a fight, they want a landslide in their favor or they won't even try. I really wonder why the Epic population is so much lower than it was three years ago if this system is so good... oh right, because it's terribly broken. Usually it's the same "don't nerf me" crap, then people on the winning side quit from boredom (most recently BLE).

 

By the way, 70 meditation is 70 meditation, regardless of path. The "work" (in reality, tedium) has been done. Shield of the gone is not harder to get than all of the others. It is clearly superior, however, which is obviously unbalanced. 

 

If you want to argue about effort, how about making a hate tile? Why is no one complaining about level 11 hate? Is it because it sucks against anyone but large groups of Libila priests (ironically, the same group that is allegedly needed to create hate tiles)?

Edited by SotG_is_OP

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I am of the opinion that SOTG is fine as is and the problem lies in not having other/enough "pvp meditation paths" to counter it effectively. Is SOTG better than enchanted grass in a fight? probably but SOTG also wont keep a horse alive on deed.


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Honestly theres only 2 that are halfway viable for pvp. Hate and Inanity. yes insanity is better than hate, so instead of nerf something, why not just make hate more viable? The rest are not designed for pvp so they should not be compared to SoTG. Only hate imo should be compared


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 Really? I couldn't tell back before they had "the gone squad", they barely left deed.

 

This is everything wrong with the discussion.  The typical generic 'I know you better than you do' bullcrap.  It's so easy to say 'lol the enemy never leave deed'.  It's not even worth trying to counter argue, because it's pure garbage and only degrades the discussion further.  You're wrong, it's always kingdom propaganda on each side and is not needed.

 

 

No one with experience wants a fight, they want a landslide in their favor or they won't even try.

 

No, we don't.  A lot of us do not like zergs, and when we go slaughter 8 jk with 4 of us, or go after 5 with 3/4 on blh even, it isn't really even fun either because it's not anywhere near a challenge at all, nobody ever even gets down to hurt and if they do it's from aosp.  Honestly the last time I had a rush in pvp was when I fought permo/scottius on mrh, gone or not the outcome was unknown and it was a rush and fun (and no, gone didn't save me before you say that, I wasn't even near 50% health at all).  That rush is what makes pvp fun, you don't get that from zerging or killing noobs.  There's just a difference between taking a risk, and running head first into a suicide and people don't seem to understand that

 

 

If you want to argue about effort, how about making a hate tile? Why is no one complaining about level 11 hate? Is it because it sucks against anyone but large groups of Libila priests (ironically, the same group that is allegedly needed to create hate tiles)?

 

I complain about how hard it is to maintain a hate tile (you can do it with any myc, it's just that bushes seem to bug it out and remove the myc), and if you look at my post history you'd see me offering suggestions for level 11 hate and pushing for it to be buffed

 

 

Honestly theres only 2 that are halfway viable for pvp. Hate and Inanity.

 

Imo, short term hate is better, but long term power is better than hate.

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This is everything wrong with the discussion.  The typical generic 'I know you better than you do' bullcrap.  It's so easy to say 'lol the enemy never leave deed'.  It's not even worth trying to counter argue, because it's pure garbage and only degrades the discussion further.  You're wrong, it's always kingdom propaganda on each side and is not needed.

 

 

No, we don't.  A lot of us do not like zergs, and when we go slaughter 8 jk with 4 of us, or go after 5 with 3/4 on blh even, it isn't really even fun either because it's not anywhere near a challenge at all, nobody ever even gets down to hurt and if they do it's from aosp.  Honestly the last time I had a rush in pvp was when I fought permo/scottius on mrh, gone or not the outcome was unknown and it was a rush and fun (and no, gone didn't save me before you say that, I wasn't even near 50% health at all).  That rush is what makes pvp fun, you don't get that from zerging or killing noobs.  There's just a difference between taking a risk, and running head first into a suicide and people don't seem to understand that

 

 

I complain about how hard it is to maintain a hate tile (you can do it with any myc, it's just that bushes seem to bug it out and remove the myc), and if you look at my post history you'd see me offering suggestions for level 11 hate and pushing for it to be buffed

 

 

Imo, short term hate is better, but long term power is better than hate.

 

First, you seem to have missed the part where I said that every kingdom avoids fights. Next is that the "you don't know us" line is the equivalent of "JKV" and "tearnami", it's a kingdom specific posting trend used as a response to another kingdom's loss and/or subsequent complaints. Shield of the gone is not a kingdom specific problem, as you seem to state. The kingdom specific problem is the argument over a clearly unbalanced feature and whether the game should be balanced or left broken.

 

If going 3 vs. 5 or 4 vs. 8 isn't fun, then why do it? Glory? It sure makes SotG seem OP if you can pull off a win like that.

 

What no one seems to have thought of yet is the psychological effects on performance in any type of activity, including playing an online game. Typically, playing while you are in a good mood increases performance both in terms of execution and clarity of thought, while playing in a bad mood does the opposite. Players know that gone is overpowered, and the resulting psychological effects from something as simple as the arrival of a group containing many players abusing this obviously overpowered ability wreaks havoc on morale and leadership. Fear, realization of impending loss and subsequent negative impact, and other negative feelings diminish one's ability to perform, to execute actions and to think clearly about both the present and the future. Playing while you know you have a major advantage increases morale and gives a reassuring feeling, helping you to think more clearly and perform better. On the contrary, overconfidence often leads to demise, and those negative psychological effects may be worse in a sudden change of events, especially when failure is inevitable. This happens all the time, from being ganked or ganking others to killing a horse or having your own killed. Most of this is subconscious. THIS IS THE EXACT SAME CONCEPT BEHIND THE ADRENALINE RUSH DURING PVP.

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I am of the opinion that SOTG is fine as is and the problem lies in not having other/enough "pvp meditation paths" to counter it effectively. Is SOTG better than enchanted grass in a fight? probably but SOTG also wont keep a horse alive on deed.

What exactly would an ability that counters SoTG look like, and how would it not create a lot of other issues.

(and even more gaps between new and old players)

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What exactly would an ability that counters SoTG look like, and how would it not create a lot of other issues.

(and even more gaps between new and old players)

 

ITT 25% damage reduction is weak and meaningless.

 

Like Kag is saying, you can't just buff everything else to OP levels. Gone is unbalanced against other level 11 powers because it is far superior, but that doesn't mean buffing them all. Newer players still need to be able to compete as part of a group.The experience advantage of older players has always given Spell immunity (works on direct targets only) really does suck and isn't worthy of a level 11, and it should be buffed or just flat out changed to something useful.

 

Buffing hate to double damage to negate gone would be broken because it would be a level 7 canceling a level 11. Making LT more reliable (giving full effect) would be great in theory, but that has its problems. LT does have counters that would be removed, although they are arguably too easy to use and letting some of them block LT as they do currently and adding full effect may be the best option (leave shield bashing, since it requires input). With this done, double LT would still be somewhat situational and inconsistent due to the requirement of a hit before taking effect, something that should be compared to gone, level 9 power, and other level 11 for balancing. However, the healing amount may become too much in some cases and may significantly out-class gone in its current state. This should be tested and balanced, but left with a possibility of being a bit more powerful than gone in some cases (1v1, tanking a small group) or less powerful in others (getting ganked) because it relies on the RNG to work (getting a hit). Gone would still be highly reliable and very powerful in all cases, while saint would be less reliable, more risk vs. reward, and more situational with a decent chance of being more efficient than the choice that is "safer" and less of a gamble to use.

Edited by SotG_is_OP

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