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Constructive Discussion on Shield of the Gone

Changes to Shield of the Gone  

192 members have voted

  1. 1. If Shield of the Gone is nerfed, what do you feel is an appropriate change?

    • 30% Passive Damage Reduction
      6
    • 25% Passive Damage Reduction
      30
    • 20% Passive Damage Reduction
      17
    • 15% Passive Damage Reduction
      5
    • 10% Passive Damage Reduction
      9
    • Activated Ability - Please post how long the activation period, and cooldown.
      18
    • Other
      8
    • No Change
      99


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"Quit the arrogance and childish forum profile and get your game on." (forum is more broken than SotG D: )


 


I am not being arrogant, I am considering facts as they are presented by people who know what they are talking about (developers, designers, professional gamers, etc.). I am not joining the side that isn't considering facts, isn't considering the long run of the game as a whole, and I am not backing down to those who call me self-centered and intolerant of "opinions" while they whine away about allowing a feature that defies the definition of balance in a game that both the players and developers (appear to) want to be balanced.


 


The game as a whole is not supposed to be tailored solely around the elites and their associates. Newbies need a chance, and adding a year and a half of mindless crap (which is constantly being reduced, I might add) to be PvP ready is not helping the game. Obviously, experienced players should have an advantage, and they already do and always have with their superior knowledge of game mechanics and tactics. With the way account buying works, account strength isn't really a solid factor here. Leadership makes a huge difference, and that leader is not playing every account in an engagement. Regardless, players with superior knowledge are at a disadvantage if they choose anything other than gone.


 


Remember when Posteh rekt kids on Hellfang? Remember when he sold it and rekt kids on Kings? It's because he has superior knowledge and is a good leader, not because of his account. Shield of the gone is a direct unidirectional counter to leadership because it has no counter. Leadership relies on finding and exploiting a weakness in your enemies using a counter (ie. counter hell horses with archery, counter archery by facing shield arm to enemy, etc.), which is then communicated to the rest of the group. Shield of the gone has no counter, so nothing can be done against it but tolerate it, which is a fundamentally broken design choice.


 


EDIT @Horsch Please learn how to use multi-quote instead of posting an entire novel over multiple posts. 


 


LoL makes those changes to reduce the power of certain champs to increase the viability of others. They inadvertently make others OP through these changes, then the process repeats. The developers aren't even trying anything in this case, they are remaining passive. On the contrary, LoL has a much larger dev team to accomplish stuff. It is a commonly known fact that more customization options results in increased difficulty of proper balancing. That factor is at play here.


 


Light of Fo itself isn't overpowered. It is inconsistent. The effects can be either overpowered (full heals) or underpowered (small heals) because it full heals five random wounds all at once. These can be large wounds (leading to full/large heal) or smaller wounds (leading to very little benefit). Each result is unfair to one side or the other.


Edited by SotG_is_OP

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Buff love. Make it heal more than one wound as well as double healing. That way its well worth having.

Buff hate. Make it last longer than 15 minutes.

Buff power. Make the elemental immunity apply to all major elements in all dmg variations.

Knowledge is fine.

Insanity is the long run of ###### to get a nice buff.

Quit the arrogance and childish forum profile and get your game on.

Or rather than messing around with every other meditation path to keep SOTG the same, maybe restructure the whole of insanity and leave everything else? Lol

No, just restructure the whole system instead.

@Mrgary

That's a very poor method of deciding things, sure you can just care what Rolf and the player base want but that doesn't get you very far, you cater for the small portion of players the world has to offer and is very silly.

If you are foolish enough to not even look at other successful games then you are not going to progress very far. Sure we don't want to make wurm a carbon copy of other games but in order to stay fun systems should be balanced so everyone has fair chance of beating their opponent and that argument should apply to every game. The only time it shouldn't be like this is if you know you have a portion of your player base who enjoy losing which barely exist.

I am not saying readjusting sotg will bring in millions of players but if there's hundreds of games that don't offer absurd buffs (with no drawbacks) there is an actual reason behind it.

Edited by MetalDragon
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gone is not the only factor cause you get a reduction from wearing ada/seryl  over 90ql and a couple of tomes  and you could be having 85% dmg reduction.


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gone is not the only factor cause you get a reduction from wearing ada/seryl  over 90ql and a couple of tomes  and you could be having 85% dmg reduction.

 

Damn close to 90% with 90ql glimmer/seryll plate and gone (89.625%), but I'm trying to keep the other stuff out of it for now. This isn't a buff stacking argument, it's about gone and the argument considers the use of armor because no one goes out in the nude. People do go out without Valrei and other buffs.

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I also believe a good system is how that article describes the "Yomi Layer 3"

A move that has a counter but there is a move that can counter the counter and a method of beating that move too while mixing it in with multiple ways of countering each.

The only mechanical way of beating sotg is to gank the said person. My other option would be to use LT but if a player is: mag priest using sotg with LT weapons and has AoSP armour you have so many things on your player to counter all possible enemy counters other than player numbers

While saying that, people say the ability is balanced because EVERYONE CAN GET IT, but if you take the above into account, one reason why it ISNT balanced is because ANYBODY CAN GET IT. The ability stacks!! with everything you can do to counter it. It's not like LT or AoSP does not work if you have SoTG. Anything you can do, SoTG can do it better.

Someone suggested buffing Love (as I'm on it), as much as I would love for you to change the system to heal large wounds first, or multiple wounds for the desired total amount that should have been healed) that would make this ability crazy OP too. I have managed to heal 35 damage in 1 swing of a weapon with level 11 love using Magranon's hammer and a weak mob. At present it is useful in situations but is instantly countered using AoSP or partially countered if you use FA/FB

Edited by MetalDragon
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Level 11 Knowledge turns you into a supergrinder.  Level 11 Power turns you into a superworker.  Level 11 Insanity turns you into a superfighter.  Being permanent buffs that require dedication and time to reach, level 11 abilities are obviously intended to be transformative and change your character in some significant, supernatural way.  I do not see a problem with any of this, outside of Hate and Love's ultimate abilities being lackluster.

 

I would think that Hate needs a boost more than Insanity needs a nerf.  If Insanity is supposed to make you much more resilient, then perhaps Hate 11 should be retooled into a permanent offensive ability on par with Insanity 11, so that PVPers have more choice in how they want to build their characters.

hate doesn't really need a buff it needs the 70 skill to give damage bonus all the time instead of giving it at a lower level for a time limit

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Interesting. Nerf gone to 25% and move rage level 2 to level 11. Both cancel each other out and would be more fair because gone would be better balanced, and a level 11 would be canceling another level 11 instead of 7 canceling 11 (which would be broken).


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yes, LoL does gave OP champs, all the time. you just have to find them. they constantly change things which cause certain champs to be OP.

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Interesting. Nerf gone to 25% and move rage level 2 to level 11. Both cancel each other out and would be more fair because gone would be better balanced, and a level 11 would be canceling another level 11 instead of 7 canceling 11 (which would be broken).

This would in turn make one of the main incentives of being a magranon priest - pointless

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Gary, why is it that you switched from love to insanity? Was level 11 path of love not a viable option?

This kind of comment is what annoys me. Obviously people have preferences, Gary is a pvper, and insanity is obviously the best for PvP. You can't blame him for switching. But what does that have to do with providing a valid reason for nerfing SoTG? Path of love is not intended to be as viable for PVP. Insanity is.

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Unsleep, your example of attempted logic is not a label you can invoke to justify stupidity. It's not a badge that you can whip out and claim victory.
You have to actually have good thinking and a reasoned arguement to do that, not just random ideas spewed in defense of piss poor thinking... Of course he chose it, he fancies himself a PVPer and it is OP as hell... A free life bar...

There is no other ability that is close in this "sandbox".
When more than half the people who voted around the world speak up and ask for a change there is a reason...

 

Lets face it Rolf made up meditation on a whim by himself. the current dev team has taken a more rock scissors paper approach to balance and game mechanics, as it should be in a sandbox. Meditation as it stands is a primordial tail Rolf created and instituted the same time he thought wishing wells were a great idea...

Lets not forget in his first implementation you could get to 70 in a day... do you really think he thought out all of the possibilities and ramifications or do you think he made a place holder system in game (like most crap he codes)  that was meant to be balanced at some point?

 

It should be reworked and balanced since we are now supposedly at wurm 1.0...These kinds of embarrassing and game breaking imbalances should not exist in "1.0"

Edited by Youngsoldier

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Yawn.


 


Obviously just looks like 1 or a small group of people cant be arsed to level to 70 meditating so they can bring down everyone else to their level.


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Yawn.

 

Obviously just looks like 1 or a small group of people cant be arsed to level to 70 meditating so they can bring down everyone else to their level.

Haven't you made this post like 3 times now - the exact same message which contributes nothing to this 'constructive discussion' topic. You'll find multiple here with the required skill wishing for change.

If you're tired of reading the discussion please do us all a favour and not read it lol it's easy.

Edited by MetalDragon
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Gary, why is it that you switched from love to insanity? Was level 11 path of love not a viable option?

 

After pushing for it to be buffed to something that wasn't invisible/useless, we got an amazing ability and I was pretty happy with it.  But, it didn't take long to see how it was stunted by healing mechanics (healing the most recent wound only), which has absolutely nothing to do with meditating paths.  I didn't see this mechanic being changed for a very long time if at all, so I switched to something that worked as advertised and not hurt by game mechanics

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Bunch of crap that proves i have no idea what im talking about

 

You're one to talk about having a reasoned argument. Not a single time have i seen you provide a single valid way that it is op. Why complain about it being op anyway? Its available to everyone, so do what the people that have it did and work for it instead of complain about something you're too lazy to get. 

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-1


 


-It's balanced because the rest of the path of insanity abilities are next to useless, and it take a year of disciplined meditation to get it.


 


-You shouldn't try and bring down the people who already put in the hard work.  


 


-This is one of the only things you can do yourself, without the help of a large group, without having to be one of the elite.  Anybody can get it in time, unlike dragon/elite mob stuff, relics, sorcery, champion/kingdom titles, glimmersteel and player made kingdoms.  Meditation is the one thing a man or woman alone has to give them a leg up.


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This would in turn make one of the main incentives of being a magranon priest - pointless

 

Woops. I didn't realize there were any incentives left.

 

This kind of comment is what annoys me. Obviously people have preferences, Gary is a pvper, and insanity is obviously the best for PvP. You can't blame him for switching. But what does that have to do with providing a valid reason for nerfing SoTG? Path of love is not intended to be as viable for PVP. Insanity is.

 

Thank you. It only took 10 pages for someone to admit it. Gone is overpowered - confirmed.

 

I didn't see this mechanic being changed for a very long time if at all, so I switched to something that worked as advertised and not hurt by game mechanics

 

Wurm Online accurately described in one sentence. Pure genius.

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how about just taking fo priest healing abilities away, mag priest passive dmg bonus away, vyn priest skills bonus away, give them actual spells.


 


put all those bonus's into paths, oh wait, they already are. make all paths skill gain, at low lvls, like requires only 30 and under meditation to attain the bonus's like 25pc dmg increase from path of hate, 25pc dmg reduction from path of insanity, 50pc increased healing from path of love, 10pc increase in path of knowledge, all 30 meditation lvls. and those are passives. give actual spells, of higher bonus's that cancel out those passives when activated at higher lvls.


 


like, path lvl 11 is double for all of those, as a spell, that lasts lets say an hour, and the cd is 12 hours.


 


sounds like a plan to me.


real suggestion here btw.


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maybe after path lvl 11, it raises by 5pc each lvl, along with the current abilities you get. 


sounds good to me! only lasts an hour, cd is 12 hours. and you get a passive, and thats on such a low scale, so everyone pretty much gets it.


 


current sotg players, still have the ability at 50pc dmg reduction, for an hour with a 12 hour cd. other paths become viable because its taken away from priests.


 


:)


Edited by Horsch

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After pushing for it to be buffed to something that wasn't invisible/useless, we got an amazing ability and I was pretty happy with it.  But, it didn't take long to see how it was stunted by healing mechanics (healing the most recent wound only), which has absolutely nothing to do with meditating paths. I didn't see this mechanic being changed for a very long time if at all, so I switched to something that worked as advertised and not hurt by game mechanics

Except you really didn't get it buffed compared to gone.

Gone effectively has the double lt, and gets better selfheals (2x vs 1.5) than healing hands.

The only thing healing hands is better for is healing others, which really isn't going to be a big advantage most of the time.

 

Sure its better than it was before, but it isn't even close to amazing compared to gone.

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Except you really didn't get it buffed compared to gone.

Gone effectively has the double lt, and gets better selfheals (2x vs 1.5) than healing hands.

The only thing healing hands is better for is healing others, which really isn't going to be a big advantage most of the time.

 

Sure its better than it was before, but it isn't even close to amazing compared to gone.

 

I don't really think the 1.5x thing is correct, or the patch notes were incorrect.  Wouldn't be the first time the status effect bar had things wrong, such as excel showing as true strike description, or nolocate saying it has a chance to hide you when it's clearly 100% block

 

http://wurmpedia.com/index.php/Wurm_Server_Release_Notes_2013

130710 Anti-lag and anti-griefing

  • Love path level 11 now have Healing Hands effect and heals and treats wounds double as well, and life transfer is double

It really feels more like people just trying to down talk other abilities just to make gone look more imbalanced.  It's really silly to think healing hands is just 'better than it was before' and ignoring the massive potential it has if healing mechanics were changed

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I don't really think the 1.5x thing is correct, or the patch notes were incorrect.  Wouldn't be the first time the status effect bar had things wrong, such as excel showing as true strike description, or nolocate saying it has a chance to hide you when it's clearly 100% block

Even if it is 2x, that is just as good as gone for healing, instead of worse.

It really feels more like people just trying to down talk other abilities just to make gone look more imbalanced.  It's really silly to think healing hands is just 'better than it was before' and ignoring the massive potential it has if healing mechanics were changed

The thing is, gone would have the exact same potential, no matter how the mechanics were changed.

 

Healing goes to largest wound, it works the same.

Heals wounds and anything over flows into the next wound, it would be the same.

 

I don't get why people shouldn't be allowed to point out how other abilities are inferior to gone when people keep trying to go the other way, saying that there are other viable options (thus gone is not op).

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Really level 9 power would have the biggest LT bonus because they can ignore frost brand and flaming aura. Someone with gone, saint, or no path at all effectively have the same benefit from LT when they are trying to heal a shield bash, FB/FA, or AoSP wound. Power negates one of those factors, the others do not.


 


Even so, LT requires a hit to heal after damage has been dealt. Gone reduces damage, then LT can heal it. If you are at low health and take a huge hit, you might die, meaning LT won't help you. Power (9) might reduce the damage enough to live (if FB/FA was used) and possibly heal with LT, and gone will reduce all damage by 50%, which then can be healed if you aren't dead.


 


FB/FA counters LT and thus saint, RT counters level 9 power (you still deal more damage because it isn't reduced, and LT might not heal it all), and gone's counter is... none.


 


With that said, RT is still inferior to FB/FA unless you are fighting someone who is level 9 or higher on power, which is a very narrow range of uses compared to others. Not many use it because of that.


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