Sign in to follow this  
Maxthx

Constructive Discussion on Shield of the Gone

Changes to Shield of the Gone  

192 members have voted

  1. 1. If Shield of the Gone is nerfed, what do you feel is an appropriate change?

    • 30% Passive Damage Reduction
      6
    • 25% Passive Damage Reduction
      30
    • 20% Passive Damage Reduction
      17
    • 15% Passive Damage Reduction
      5
    • 10% Passive Damage Reduction
      9
    • Activated Ability - Please post how long the activation period, and cooldown.
      18
    • Other
      8
    • No Change
      99


Recommended Posts

I honestly think all high level meditation abilities should either have no fighting benefits or be deactivated on pvp servers.  I personally wont grind meditation to that level, and don't like the 'idea' (even if exaggerated) that i will be gimped hard in pvp because of it.  If the pvp community is okay with less people than fine, i can handle xanadu.  Also i think i only speak of epic, leave chaos to be whatever it wants.

 

More people on PvP agree with this than you think.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Argustin - and still 2 pages later you try and bury this discussion with the same argument that one person is pushing for this the loudest in hopes it gets changed - I can make the same negative styled posts about you.

I have no interest in the guy telling everyone else is wrong, it doesn't matter to anyone that they're being told they're wrong if you're posting something to support your point, but over the many posts he has given, he has provided a lot of points why it's not balanced, where a lot of other players are basing their whole argument against it is because the "anyone can get it" and "slightly more than 50% of people don't agree" then other people backing up these statements suggesting others are too lazy to get it.

Because anyone can get something doesn't mean it's balanced, developers shouldn't take voting statistics as 100% proof due to the fact the player base want generally their abilities to be over powered and others want the abilities they don't have underpowered.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well my post was removed, so ill put it again in nicer terms.


 


I voted no change, and no, i do not have gone, I just feel that those who have worked for it should get the benefit worthy of their time. 


 


Either way, the argument needs to end. It will never have one side that so outweighs the other that rolf will feel obligated to change something. All you're doing is spitting hot air because you dont want to put in the time that many of the players who have gone have. And I dont care at all about the gap between new and old players. There should be a gap, and it should be a big one. Why should someone just starting even have a chance against someone whos put years of time and effort into the game? I believe the way gone is now motivates players to continue playing in order to achieve such a desired perk. But no, i do not believe it is op. The only time you can notice a huge difference is in 1v1's or maybe very small group fights. And even then, its more based off of the rest of the accounts skills. Obviously the person with gone has an advantage, but theyve worked for it therefore they should be allowed to such an advantage. 


  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dunno about you but I see plenty of posts that argue both for and against it if you filter through the useless posts.  And honestly I'm seeing a lot of those posts just like yours that pretty much only send the 'you're selfish' argument as the last sentence you said states, and sorry but suggesting things like it be 10% reduction instead so it can still be 'powerful' is absolutely ridiculous.  I'm not sure if you've done the math yet or not, but 10% reduction on a normal 10 dmg wound is a whopping 1 dmg, wooo so strong.   Please tell me why you think it should be so much weaker than level 11 love's potential, or level 9 power.  At the very least if it's changed at all, to remain inline with other paths it should be no less than ~33-40% but that isn't going to change much.

 

While some like to argue that 'lol u just want to keep ur op game breaking ability', I'm also seeing that a lot of these gone complaints never happened until the enemy started getting it.  As said before, JK epic never complained about gone when agentusp got it, or cobb, or trollface, or naabs...  But once cornchips and I switched from love to insanity and got gone suddenly it's an issue.  The only viable complaint I've seen about enemy getting gone is when some people were able to use enlightenment before the change to get gone while having very low meditating skill, and I am all for nerfing that so the skill is required for gone to work

Edited by MetalDragon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 you dont want to put in the time that many of the players who have gone have. And I dont care at all about the gap between new and old players. There should be a gap, and it should be a big one. Why should someone just starting even have a chance against someone whos put years of time and effort into the game?

This is a valid argument for the chaos server.  Epic however was billed as viable pvp without long term grinding requirements, So it does deserve discussion and possible change.  Also someone starting out (3 months) should have a chance in pvp, for player retention purposes (for epic at least).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a valid argument for the chaos server.  Epic however was billed as viable pvp without long term grinding requirements, So it does deserve discussion and possible change.  Also someone starting out (3 months) should have a chance in pvp, for player retention purposes (for epic at least).

 

The problem is, I agree entirely with drastic changes if that's how it was from the start, and how it should be.  But as it is now, Epic is full of all meditating paths, sorcery, adamantine, glimmersteel, seryll, rare+ items, etc.  None of it should have been in from the start as we saw how even on challenge that sort of stuff created those gaps on a 30 day long server.  Body stats were supposed to be much less effective on Epic, but we also saw that this is clearly not the case, but we cant suddenly say hey we know you grinded for years and have 60-70 body stats, but we're going to make them cap at 30 effective.  It's clear though that the game vision has effort/abilities being strong on the mind and that goes for all clusters, and I for one like that

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are still things being missed. You can't compare body stats or fight skill to meditation because the latter has five options, two of which are good enough to have any sort of practical use in PvP, one of which being the single best. Other skills/stats really have no options to balance, so it's not a matter of account skill at all.


 


10% for gone is too low for a level 11 ability, but 33% is still too high for any universal damage reduction value applied as a passive buff.


 


@ the "I have a right to my opinion" crowd: Everyone has a right to his or her opinion, but anything that conflicts with universal game design standards is irrelevant for a PvP balance discussion. It doesn't bother me if you think one thing or another, but uninformed opinions should not be a basis for a delicate subject like game balance. The facts prove that you are wrong. If you disagree, go find some valid and relevant information to prove your case. If you can't find anything to support your claim, then I guess the experts in the gaming industry don't agree with you (see Sirlin article).


Edited by SotG_is_OP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are simply incapable of accepting that there is another perfectly legitimate side.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are still things being missed. You can't compare body stats or fight skill to meditation because the latter has five options, two of which are good enough to have any sort of practical use in PvP, one of which being the single best. Other skills/stats really have no options to balance, so it's not a matter of account skill at all.

 

10% for gone is too low for a level 11 ability, but 33% is still too high for any universal damage reduction value applied as a passive buff.

 

@ the "I have a right to my opinion" crowd: Everyone has a right to his or her opinion, but anything that conflicts with universal game design standards is irrelevant for a PvP balance discussion. It doesn't bother me if you think one thing or another, but uninformed opinions should not be a basis for a delicate subject like game balance. The facts prove that you are wrong. If you disagree, go find some valid and relevant information to prove your case. If you can't find anything to support your claim, then I guess the experts in the gaming industry don't agree with you (see Sirlin article).

 

if certain percentages are too much, then give all lvl 11 abilities +25pc dmg reduction and +25pc dmg buff passive abilities. for both path of insanity and path of hate.

 

problem solved.

 

the issue here is, for a lvl 11 ability, that takes atleast a year, should have some benefit over a player that started just 3-6 months ago. people dont want their time spent and dedication to the game, to go unrewarded. taking away the current abilities, will do just that. take away their time spent and dedication they put into the game over players that have only been playing 3 months.

 

YOU want to put players on the same playing field, well players who have spent FOREVER on wurm, dont want that. 

I'm a newer player myself, been playing only since April. I don't want that.

 

i would in no way want, any game that i play, to allow newer players, the ability to get on the same playing field as me instantly considering it takes FOREVER just to grind skills in this game.

 

this game is NOT like other games. this game takes forever just to gain skills. this game takes forever just to attain good sets of items. this game takes TIME and DEDICATION to have good things in this game. thats how it should be.

 

CHALLENGE is a perfect example of just how being given pretty much everything, gets boring after awhile.

 

have you ever used god mode in a game? or played test server? where you can just not die or spawn any item you pretty much want? whats the point of that?

 

if you took away the grind from wurm, and gave players everything they wanted, it would just be a game for designing things and thats it. people would only compete on who can design the best house, and even right now, in wurm, theres not many different ways to design. yeah, you can plan a layout differently, but adventually, it all looks the same.

 

point is, wurm is not like other games, no need to try to make it like other games by saying we should go with META and not have any abilities that provide more then 30pc dmg reduction.

 

WURM is WURM.

 

not that other crap.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are still things being missed. You can't compare body stats or fight skill to meditation because the latter has five options, two of which are good enough to have any sort of practical use in PvP, one of which being the single best. Other skills/stats really have no options to balance, so it's not a matter of account skill at all.

 

10% for gone is too low for a level 11 ability, but 33% is still too high for any universal damage reduction value applied as a passive buff.

 

@ the "I have a right to my opinion" crowd: Everyone has a right to his or her opinion, but anything that conflicts with universal game design standards is irrelevant for a PvP balance discussion. It doesn't bother me if you think one thing or another, but uninformed opinions should not be a basis for a delicate subject like game balance. The facts prove that you are wrong. If you disagree, go find some valid and relevant information to prove your case. If you can't find anything to support your claim, then I guess the experts in the gaming industry don't agree with you (see Sirlin article).

 

 

also, i dont know if you've ever played LoL, but games dont always have to go with the current META, players all the time go against META. if theres a will, theres a way.

 

you need to think outside the box. dont stay in it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

you need to think outside the box. dont stay in it.

It's easy to say you have to think out of the box which is what I would agree with other games. There is no outside of the box with sotg other than get more players than them or make everyone become a mag priest to get 50% of the way to break even in giving equal damage to the buff but that can be even more difficult because you can have sotg with mag damage bonus.

The game lacks ways of thinking out of the box unless you have ideas that will counter said abilities and you have mentioned you're relatively new, if you haven't figured out already thinking outside the box is generally something that's an exploit as the developers fail to inform people of the mechanics and 'hidden mechanics'

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's easy to say you have to think out of the box which is what I would agree with other games. There is no outside of the box with sotg other than get more players than them or make everyone become a mag priest to get 50% of the way to break even in giving equal damage to the buff but that can be even more difficult because you can have sotg with mag damage bonus.

The game lacks ways of thinking out of the box unless you have ideas that will counter said abilities and you have mentioned you're relatively new, if you haven't figured out already thinking outside the box is generally something that's an exploit as the developers fail to inform people of the mechanics and 'hidden mechanics'

 

 

if theres a will to defeat someone, there is a way. are you telling me that you cant possibly beat someone with your capabilities? can you give me an example of something that is unbeatable in every situation?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

wall o' text

 

1. Wurm is subject to the same universal game design principles as any other game. 

 

2. Shield of the gone is not a skill. Meditation is a skill. The fact is that there is one obviously superior option, one lesser but viable alternative, and three that are practically useless in comparison, all of which are available at the same skill level.

 

3. Shield of the gone is closer to your so-called "god mode" than non-gone, and even that is a clear exaggeration.

 

4. Experienced players will always have an advantage. They will have a skill advantage in terms of player knowledge and account strength. Shield of the gone only increases that to make it a huge advantage against other experienced players, some with much more experience, just because they did not choose shield of the gone. If you have this advantage, you should be able to kill the newbie without having gone. If you can't, then that's on you.

 

Another argument is that no one complained that this or that player had it. This is because it wasn't a proliferation issue then. No one complained when one BL priest casted rotting gut, no one complained when one person had dragon armor, no one complained when someone had one rare piece of gear. It's the same as farwalkers. People who didn't have them bought them to catch up. People who didn't buy them were at a huge disadvantage. Dragon armor is the same on Chaos, it would be on Epic too if the drops weren't reduced from the Freedom values. Gone is the same.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

also, i dont know if you've ever played LoL, but games dont always have to go with the current META, players all the time go against META. if theres a will, theres a way.

 

you need to think outside the box. dont stay in it.

LoL has actual viable options, wurm really does not.

Champions are not flat out better than others by a massive degree, and if they are better they are nerfed.

If you want to have twice the health via armor/health bonuses, you give up damage potential or utility, in wurm there is no tradeoff to picking gone.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sometimes having a brain in PvP also helps.

If a Gone player doesnt have a brain, it doesnt mean ######.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@ the "I have a right to my opinion" crowd: Everyone has a right to his or her opinion, but anything that conflicts with universal game design standards is irrelevant for a PvP balance discussion. It doesn't bother me if you think one thing or another, but uninformed opinions should not be a basis for a delicate subject like game balance. The facts prove that you are wrong. If you disagree, go find some valid and relevant information to prove your case. If you can't find anything to support your claim, then I guess the experts in the gaming industry don't agree with you (see Sirlin article).

Edited by MrGARY

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ok?

That is like saying if someone is in fantastic glimmer plate and doesn't have a brain, it doesn't mean ######.

It doesnt. It just means the people with a brain can get the fantastic glimmer plate ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But you can't take gone from someone unlike champion status, armour etc. the only other permanent buff is sorcery but that has a negative aspect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't care what "experts in the gaming industry" agree with or don't agree with.  I don't care what other games offer, if I did, I'd probably be playing them.  What matters is what Rolf thinks, and the players think, and buddy, Rolf wants players to be able to have an advantage as he stated in the Q&A, and half the players voting flatout said no to changing gone at all.  

 

Gary, why is it that you switched from love to insanity? Was level 11 path of love not a viable option?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gary, why is it that you switched from love to insanity? Was level 11 path of love not a viable option?

Buff love. Make it heal more than one wound as well as double healing. That way its well worth having.

Buff hate. Make it last longer than 15 minutes.

Buff power. Make the elemental immunity apply to all major elements in all dmg variations.

Knowledge is fine.

Insanity is the long run of to get a nice buff.

Quit the arrogance and childish forum profile and get your game on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've never followed a path, but from what I've seen - don't change shield of the gone, but change the other paths to make them equal in overall benefit.


  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LoL has actual viable options, wurm really does not.

Champions are not flat out better than others by a massive degree, and if they are better they are nerfed.

If you want to have twice the health via armor/health bonuses, you give up damage potential or utility, in wurm there is no tradeoff to picking gone.

 

yes, LoL does gave OP champs, all the time. you just have to find them. they constantly change things which cause certain champs to be OP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

should turn shield of the gone passive into a spell for Libila, take it away from path 11 of insanity, make it a 70 faith spell of libila only. it lasts 10 minutes and the cooldown of the spell is 10 minutes.


 


WL has priests that can have passive dmg bonus's and priests with OP healing capabilities, give BL SOTG as a spell. simple fix. :)


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this