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Constructive Discussion on Shield of the Gone

Changes to Shield of the Gone  

192 members have voted

  1. 1. If Shield of the Gone is nerfed, what do you feel is an appropriate change?

    • 30% Passive Damage Reduction
      6
    • 25% Passive Damage Reduction
      30
    • 20% Passive Damage Reduction
      17
    • 15% Passive Damage Reduction
      5
    • 10% Passive Damage Reduction
      9
    • Activated Ability - Please post how long the activation period, and cooldown.
      18
    • Other
      8
    • No Change
      99


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Its OP, OP enough that i dropped hate to get it. So ye, OP. Did i say its OP already? 


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Give path of hate permanent damage buff, so that players get to choose whether to be defensive style players (SOTG) or offensive (path of hate), also do something about path of power, thats it, everything else is fine

Wait i said it already on this thread or some other, yes give permanent 100% damage increase to path of hate, why? because SOTG gives double health. 
Make choosing meditation path stratergical, not just going for one path because its obviously the choice you have to take.

Edited by Hashirama

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Again, no need to nerf SOTG, Buff Hate and path of power!!!!! Srsly rolf, do it.


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Give path of hate permanent damage buff, so that players get to choose whether to be defensive style players (SOTG) or offensive (path of hate), also do something about path of power, thats it, everything else is fine

Wait i said it already on this thread or some other, yes give permanent 100% damage increase to path of hate, why? because SOTG gives double health. 

Make choosing meditation path stratergical, not just going for one path because its obviously the choice you have to take.

So lets make it completely impossible for any new players to pvp?

 

 

Dont change it, people who work hard for the skill deserve the power that comes with it ! 

 

and if its unbalanced boost the other level 11 powers as was said earlier in the post.

 

Buffing meditation is really the wrong way to go about balancing, it just creates a massive real time wall for any new players, in addition to the many grind based walls.

Edited by Kagrenac
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5 pages in this thread alone, not to mention the dozen others threads/areas this dead horse has been kicked in, and you broadly claim that everything against your own view points on the matter are baseless opinions? I'm not sure what makes your views so golden-arrowed compared to the opposite views, besides your opinion that they are. That is one of the most nieve sentences I've ever seen.

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Shield of the gone is, in fact, unbalanced and therefore broken. This is something that cannot be disputed because it is backed up by fact. Go read the David Sirlin article; I posted it for a reason. There he gives a very valid and relevant definition of balance, under which shield of the gone undoubtedly falls. You can also find similar definitions elsewhere if you care to look outside these forums for common principles of proper game design, which also state that "It doesn't have to be balanced," is an equally invalid argument.

 

You can argue against an opinion, you cannot argue against fact.

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I don't get why you try to shove path of power or anything else that we say is comparable down the drain.  I have king cr bonus, king gear, rare moon metal armor, rare weapon/shield, gone, and I sparred Nahjo who has less but comparable stats/skills with just basic gear and vibrant light, and we sparred for like 7 minutes I think it was, and he won.  I even had web armor slowing his aims down and I was trying to counter his aims to prevent special move spam, and he didn't even use elemental immunity to block my fa

Spars are funky, they really don't seem to work the same as normal combat. And he didn't say power was bad, he said power was good in 1v1s, which it can be.

 

As for paths compared to gone

Love=1.5x healing with cotton/hands (gone effectively gets 2x for selfheals). Refresh

Hate=Immunity to direct target spells, which are rarely used. 50% temp damage bonus

Power=Able to special move spam(which is only really good for MR), Temporary up to 25% DR vs weapons with fa/fb(vs gones 50%), temp immunity to some pillars.

 

So love is almost worthless, hate is not that great, and power is good if you have good special moves to spam+ are not wounded at a rate that your health limited stamina is lower than it would be draining normally.

Edited by Kagrenac

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The only thing i can think of is to restructure all the paths. The only part i understand about every path being "overpowered" (lets be honest its not just PoI) is that you get a sudden buff. The paths would need some "balancing". What i suggest would be this:


 


Inanity:


Level 3 you get 10% physical immunity


Level 5 you get 20% physical immunity


Level 7 you get 30% physical immunity


Level 9 you get 40% physical immunity


Lvel 11 you get the full 50% physical immunity.


 


Hate:


Level 3 you get 10% increased damage (Change: ALWAYS ACTIVE)


Level 5 you get 20% increased damage (Change: ALWAYS ACTIVE)


Level 7 you get 30% increased damage (Change: ALWAYS ACTIVE)


Level 9 you get 40% increased damage (Change: ALWAYS ACTIVE)


Level 11 you get 50% increased damage (Change: ALWAYS ACTIVE)


 


Knowledge:


Level 3 you get 5% increased skill gain


Level 5 you get 10% increased skill gain


Level 7 you get 15% increased skill gain


Level 9 you get 20% increased skill gain


Level 11 you get the full 25% increased skill gain


 


Etc you get the idea. 


 


Hate would gain something different at level 7, maybe a CR buff. This is the only way i can see all paths being balanced, where you dont get a sudden increase in "Op-ness"(?), and where its easy for everyone to get some of the end ability whilst being on the path.


 


Food for thought anyway. Other then what i said above, thats the only way i see a need to change, otherwise leave it how it is.


Edited by Redd
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The only thing you are doing is forcing your opinion on everyone else as fact.  All you ever do is read or listen to what someone else says and act as if you now know the manual to Wurm.  Whether its posting it on forums or in the wiki, it's pretty evident.  Especially when you've barely ever set foot into the pvp world using "1fps waa" as some excuse.  Balance is pure opinion based, there's nothing around that.  Someone can argue that fireheart doing 1.5 dmg before buff was balanced, someone else can say "you're insane, 1.5 dmg isn't even worth casting and that's a fact!" well both are opinions, do you not see that? 

 

It's not an opinion when one is more effective than the other. You may enjoy doing it as a player of a game, but that isn't a balance issue. Effectiveness is, which is mostly objective. If two people with equal stats and equal skills fight (not spar/duel, they're broken and bugged) numerous times and one person comes out on top a majority of the time with one different factor between them, that factor is the cause and should be looked at overall. Broken is subjective, balance is objective.

 

That "you don't PvP NintendoJoe" argument has nothing to do with this. I am not an active PvP player, but I have been a part of it more than you (or anyone else) gives credit for. Assuming I am a "newbie" to this, who better to give suggestions than someone who has been involved but isn't the most experienced? Who better than someone who can bridge the gap between veterans and complete newbies?

 

There is no correlation between broken and balance.  What may very well be broken is this supposed healing nerf for gone, but without Rolf telling us what it's supposed to be, we can't argue anything about it.  I'm not really for forcing a noticable nerf for a level 11 ability, because simply put, this isn't sorcery or anything like that, no other meditating ability gives a negative effect to your account

 

That's not entirely true. Just because something is broken does not mean it's unbalanced. However, if something is unbalanced, at least in a scenario like this, it is broken. Nerfing gone isn't putting a negative effect on your account. It's reducing a positive one to a reasonable level.

 

I don't get why you try to shove path of power or anything else that we say is comparable down the drain.  I have king cr bonus, king gear, rare moon metal armor, rare weapon/shield, gone, and I sparred Nahjo who has less but comparable stats/skills with just basic gear and vibrant light, and we sparred for like 7 minutes I think it was, and he won.  I even had web armor slowing his aims down and I was trying to counter his aims to prevent special move spam, and he didn't even use elemental immunity to block my fa

 

First off, spars suck for this. Right click > target for real results. Secondly, this is a single trial under Wurm's whacked RNG. Assuming the above is true, everything in combat uses stamina in some amount (swing, movement, aim, focus, block, etc.), so he had half drain while your damage reduction was insane. Even so, repeatedly aiming drains stamina, albeit slowly. I'd like to see this repeated several times without spar/duel, possibly recorded for some kind of practical evidence that might actually lead somewhere. This is what is actually useful.

 

So from this:

 

1v1: Vibrant Light > Gone > Everything Else

 

Group Fights: Gone > All

 

Either way, gone is the best for group fights and second best for 1v1, with vibrant light taking the cake for 1v1. Considering the rarity of actual 1v1 engagements between enemies, this should be balanced around group fights, where there is an obvious problem. If you could survive seven minutes in a 1v1, try it against a group of 5. Time to kill is still going to be absurdly long.

 

Love, Hate, and Knowledge aren't anywhere near this because they are terrible for PvP at level 11. That is an imbalance. Even if knowledge were left strictly as a PvE-oriented path, there would be four viable options as opposed to 1-2, which is much more balanced. You could buff meditation to achieve balance, but it's not going to fix the problem with new players joining at a massive disadvantage.

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dont nerf it! i almost got it! (i was PoH before, but 50% damage reduction is just too good to pass up on, which in my eyes are just wrong)


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dont nerf it! i almost got it! (i was PoH before, but 50% damage reduction is just too good to pass up on, which in my eyes are just wrong)

 

If he does nerf it, he could give a free path switch to everyone via a chat command or something in a similar fashion to past events. The removal of Libila on Wild/Chaos gave everyone a /convert to use once. He also did something similar to switch skills when he nerfed the steel staff.

 

While I think that gone is blatantly overpowered and definitely should be nerfed, it's pretty well established that the entire system needs to be overhauled. Nerfing gone would by no means fix meditation as a whole, but it would definitely be a huge advancement in overall PvP balance. 

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Anyone can be shield of the gone therefore it is not overpowered.  If you elect to not go for it, the rest of those who have should not be nerfed.  

 

Are you complaining because you do not want to have to get 70 meditation?  Who said that meditation has to be balanced across the entire game and that each path has to be viable in every and all pvp situations?  Is it possible that some paths are more effective in pvp and some are not and that is OK?  One could think of SOTG as a pvp meditation path sort of like shields and shield bashing are more useful pvp skills than in pve. 

 

On Chaos, which is a kingdom vs kingdom server, several paths are utilized by players to some degree depending on their play style and account choices.  There are those who stand in the front lines who need to be able to withstand the few extra hits that shield of the gone affords them and there are those that use other paths with great success behind the front lines.  Path of love is great for those who like to heal during a prolonged battle.  POK is very handy in tower caps when you can't find the guards.  Hate gives players with less than 70 meditation the ability to do some extra damage.  From a pure pvp perspective you have the ability to progress from a new player with 20 in each stat to a damage dealer to a tank with the help of meditation if you are dedicated to advancing your account's skills.  

 

If you want instant gratification and a completely balanced playing field you are playing the wrong game.  Wurm is a grind and those who work at it should enjoy the abilities they spend countless hours unlocking.  The closest to your ideal is the new challenged server, you might want to give that a try before you implore that your version of balance is better for every server.

 

 

Worst arguement ever. When Iwas a fo champ with 4 second heals everyone could get it too but everyone could agree it was OP... Mainly because their werent to many fo champs at the time to whine about their personal nerf to achieve better balance in the game and a better game environment overall. lol

 

Edited by Youngsoldier

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Dont change it, people who work hard for the skill deserve the power that comes with it ! 

 

and if its unbalanced boost the other level 11 powers as was said earlier in the post.

 

Give me back my old lib priest Rolf ruined when he screwed chaos, I worked hard for that.

 

Give me back my 4 second heals I worked hard for that.

 

Give me back fountain pan satchels do you know how hardit was to figure out how to make them?

 

What do you call hard work? Logging in every 30 minutes to meditate while you play other games in themeantime so you can be OP in a year?

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Can anyone mention a mmo game with pvp where you get permanent 50% damage reduction ie: double health... ?


 


I'd like to see the comprehensive list since every other mmo is apparently getting it wrong but wurm has it right if your listening to the gonesquad tell it.


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Worst arguement ever. When Iwas a fo champ with 4 second heals everyone could get it too but everyone could agree it was OP... Mainly because their werent to many fo champs at the time to whine about their personal nerf to achieve better balance in the game and a better game environment overall. lol

 

Actually... your argument is the worst possible, While SotG is achievable by everyone - becoming FO priest was possible only for whitelighters and recently becoming FO champion is possible only for JK, While JK might be a synonym of "everyone" for you, it clearly isn't for anyone brigh enough to realise it's not the only faction in wurm. BTW i wonder where all of recent "balance fighters" where all this years HotS struggled to get any viable ability to help them out... like strongwall(so they didnt need to buy orbs for 5s) like genesis so breading horses do not take few months, like nimbleness so they do not need to keep vynoras in caves etc... Prolly were playing on their mag/fo champs.

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Actually... your argument is the worst possible, While SotG is achievable by everyone - becoming FO priest was possible only for whitelighters and recently becoming FO champion is possible only for JK, While JK might be a synonym of "everyone" for you, it clearly isn't for anyone brigh enough to realise it's not the only faction in wurm. BTW i wonder where all of recent "balance fighters" where all this years HotS struggled to get any viable ability to help them out... like strongwall(so they didnt need to buy orbs for 5s) like genesis so breading horses do not take few months, like nimbleness so they do not need to keep vynoras in caves etc... Prolly were playing on their mag/fo champs.

 

To be fair, each kingdom, god, and priest, each has its own unique abilities. They are supposed to be kept balanced but different, which is difficult but still possible. Currently, a lot of systems have unbalanced mechanics, including religion and meditation. Gone is the most powerful and versatile with no down side. 

 

"Anyone can get it" really falls through when you consider that anyone can theoretically get anything in almost any game. Wurm is a time sink, not a skill requirement (on the part of the player). It isn't balanced just because anyone can get it. It just makes something the most desired or even a requirement when something is so powerful, which is bad. People play games the way they want. They don't want to be told how to play or be inferior.

 

"It doesn't have to be balanced" is invalid; no one wants to play an unbalanced game except those who are on top.

Edited by SotG_is_OP
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Can anyone mention a mmo game with pvp where you get permanent 50% damage reduction ie: double health... ?

 

I'd like to see the comprehensive list since every other mmo is apparently getting it wrong but wurm has it right if your listening to the gonesquad tell it.

 

I recall witnessing this trap in the past, there are no other games like wurm so when asked to find something to compare it may always be refused as an example for not being the right kind of game.

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I recall witnessing this trap in the past, there are no other games like wurm so when asked to find something to compare it may always be refused as an example for not being the right kind of game.

Based off of population %99.9 of gamers feel it is not the right kind of game

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I recall witnessing this trap in the past, there are no other games like wurm so when asked to find something to compare it may always be refused as an example for not being the right kind of game.

 

Were talkin PVP aspect of the OP nature of SOTG not wurm as a whole... But yeah dodge that with yer 70 body control.

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soo... can we remove the spell casting restriction when using plate? i mean... everyone can be a priest so this should be no problem


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