Tragedy at Silent Hill

[Chiron 1]

 Also to all the pvp people who are on epic and think this is ok jest tell me have you ever heard of someone joining a settlement and i dont know disbaning it or drain its coffers with hiring guards

[JudusX 199]

What was done was an exploit of the game mechanics. Code club hands out bans for that.

[Asciana 303]

Aeris, if you can get over to Xanadu I can donate a free supreme forge to you.

[Jaz 2,665]

I cannot say how much I sorry about the loss. Indeed it is a real world crime in most civilized countries and punishable by real world laws. This is theft just like talking in yourself in to a real world house with some made up story and steal all the valuables. I see no difference. On PVP I would say what a clever although unethical tactic - PVE is way different on its INTENDED ruleset.

Being usure about permissions and implicated effects I would never let any unknown toon be citizen on my deed, with all my best intention I would only let them join my secondary deed (which has nothing just woods with all settings revoked ).

Would you need any help, I'm in as well.

[Firestarter 1,210]

 Also to all the pvp people who are on epic and think this is ok jest tell me have you ever heard of someone joining a settlement and i dont know disbaning it or drain its coffers with hiring guards

[Jaz 2,665]

I'll be unpopular but - no trading of accounts please. I've been completely surprised when joined Wurm seeing it is allowed, on the long run it ruins the game too as lessens the natural atritition rate of highly qualified toons making the (econcomic) life of late starters much harder.

At least there should be a mandatory -perhaps with a fee also- name change on sold toons IMHO.

 

Might make botting less impressive as well?

Edited December 23, 2014 by Jaz

[LorenaMontana 3,008]

I am on Epic, and have seen first hand what Nos is like, and am in no way jesting you whatsoever, I am shocked and appalled that he would be so cowardly

[Firestarter 1,210]

I lived with nos in 2 deeds, he never harmed anyone or stole anything from me and my bros, so let's not blame nos here untill there is evidence, i know this bro as a loyal, funny but weird man. But aren't we all weird in our way?

Never stole from you guys, lets apply that to this situation, he has stolen a few hundred euros worth of items from them, he is a coward

[Heboric 808]

I lived with nos in 2 deeds, he never harmed anyone or stole anything from me and my bros, so let's not blame nos here untill there is evidence,

 

Lorena - he admitted it himself at the beginning of this thread. He wasn't accused, he just came right in and admitted it.

 

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/115969-tragedy-at-silent-hill/page-4#entry1185190

 

there is no items up on playerauctions and never will be i never posted anything on any website about playerauctions.

edit: i dont even have a account with that site

 

 

One of the people who helped him started baiting them in chat about buying their stuff back on playerauctions, and he freely responded to that accusation. No one else brought his name in - he did it himself.

[Dorian 865]

Got this when logging in today..  I sincerely hope that the guys who robbed us get a little more than a frown.

 

[Alec 728]

Got this when logging in today..  I sincerely hope that the guys who robbed us get a little more than a frown.

 

 

 

He won't, that's how Wurm works.

[Milosanx 716]

One instance of this happening is bad enough and yes something of a delicate situation, but 3 times and nearly 4?

Cista, I can see where u are coming from, bye after silent hill, Brandon's, dels and nearly gp's? Sorry to say but I'm all for bring the pitch forks.

Now I think about it, perhaps the same person put the guards on my pet scorpions.

What happened at silent hill was bad enough, but the others affected our alliance, in our own backyard.

[Nappy 1,369]

Asciana:

 

If Aeries wants the Supreme Forge but can't do the sail then I am willing to do the delivery. No charge and the supreme forge gets delivered to Aeris, no where else.

 

~Nappy

[Nsu 14]

Hi Aeris,

Sorry to hear that you too have been taken advantage of in this game that seems to be taken over by hooligans.  Please send me the name and the names of any alts you know he owns Aeris so i can kos them immediately from all of my deeds. Maybe when enough of us get so fed up that we start showing our dismay using our wallets (like I already have a bit) Rolf will finally put an end to this pure utter crap.

Nsu

[Valdor 1,426]

It has been stated in this thread that any punishments - if awarded - should not be retroactive. Perhaps that's true. The cases from the past are closed and done with. But the current cases - the one of Aeris and several other players who have been taken for a ride - are open and still under review. I hope the GMs rule in their favor.

 

If the perpetrators get away with this act then what we as a game are saying is this: If you are clever enough to find a way to use the code to your benefit, you are welcome to the spoils.

 

I hardly believe that was the intent behind Wurm when it started and I would be surprised if the developers didn't cringe at the idea themselves. Yes, it is our job to understand the deed permissions. But the deed permissions are something akin to the Enigma code at this particular time. Even at a first glance I was never comfortable with checking any box on that list. Now that I know that some permissions allow other - unknown - effects, like what happened to Aeris or my friend who lost his deed, I am simply terrified of them. I turned everything off. I am also terrified of inviting someone to the village, even if I met them before, because who knows if the account of my former in-game acquaintance has not been bought by someone with a friendly smile on their face pretending to be the former owner, but with a malicious intent of robbing me blind. Isn't this destroying the very foundation of village living - one of the primary features of Wurm?

 

And what's causing this fear? Deed permissions, yes, but more importantly the game rules. The deed permissions are a very complex beast and I have no illusion that they are even more complex from the programming perspective. I believe they should be modernized but I also know that given their complexity, there will always be a potential for abuse. This is where the game rules come in. In most instances, they protect us. However, in this case, they seem to favor the perpetrators. It's clear that this is one of those times when we have to sit down and modernize the rules themselves. Everything evolves. Wurm must as well.

 

On Chaos or Epic, when a player finds a way to do a job on your deed, you have the option of picking up arms and doing the same back to him. It's not easy, but in theory that option exists. On Freedom, you have no such option. You were swindled and it's over. You set something wrong in the deed rules, because you don't have the seemingly required PhD in game mechanics and that's it. I bet no one here can tell me EXACTLY how every deed setting works and how it correlates to one another. Actually, I take it back. There is someone. A small group of players who have just used them to their full potential, thus showing us the true magnitude of that code.

 

And this is a group that deliberately targets deeds and players for the sole purpose of screwing them out of game fun. They don't even put up a pretense about it. They are not in Wurm to play the game. They are here to find a way to abuse it. Such groups also exist in real life and we have a defense against them. We call that defense - police.

 

As we hopefully have a closer look at deed permissions to make them more accessible to an average gamer's mind, let's not forget to have an even closer look at how the rules now must adapt to this new development. And most of all, let's not forget the players who were victimized. Their only crime was checking a box on a long list of permissions that looked quite safe.

 

It could have been you.

Edited December 23, 2014 by Valdor

[bootyliciousvip 47]

"It could've been you" It did happen to me. 
What'd gm's say? "Sorry, you invited them to the village. It sucks but there's nothing we can do!" The exact same thing ought to be said here, unless we want to bring up literally 100's of other cases where this happened and nothing was done.  it doesn't take a phd in permissions to prevent this. I don't get how so many people are claiming trouble with permission. 

[Aeris 3,750]

I don't get how so many people are claiming trouble with permission.

Because this is the only instance I know of where one of the other settings overrule the writ. The problem is that before it was abused we had NO IDEA that it did, and many others with us didn't either. All other settings are inferior to the writ settings unless you're the mayor.

Who knew about this? A handful of people yes, but it wasn't announced anywhere and it certainly wasn't intuitive. The griefers knew about this and they also knew that others did NOT know, which is what allowed them to abuse this permission workaround.

Why the heck are we even paying for deeds when living in an offdeed house is a lot safer? If someone manages to crack open a wall in an offdeed house by using a workaround it would be a clear case of abuse. Now because we were abused on a deed a handful of people are blaming us. WE did not ask for them to bash our walls, we were fully confident that the writs were superior because how on Earth would people otherwise be able to work on their own houses in a village?

[Jaz 2,665]

Again, one of the main issues is that your yesterday good friend could be sold today - even to a malicious unknown player.

Do the old friend remove al friends from him upon selling? Hopefully. Can you be sure of? Nope. Should I remove all my firends? Don't want to...

 

One thing is sure, my chars Jaz and Zaj will remain in my sole possession for eternity, will never be sold - too much a part of my "real life" me to expose... when I'll leave Wurm they'll go into their possibly eternal sleep and that's it.

[Heboric 808]

"It could've been you" It did happen to me. 

What'd gm's say? "Sorry, you invited them to the village. It sucks but there's nothing we can do!" The exact same thing ought to be said here, unless we want to bring up literally 100's of other cases where this happened and nothing was done. 

 

Why? Most laws/rules are created in answer to activities that while at the time were *maybe* legal, were definitely undesired. It's impossible sometimes to predict how people can behave, so impossible to really control until they do.

 

Tbh - some of the reactions here that appear to condone this game play just make me feel somewhat sad and disgusted. Have people really lost their inward perception of decency to this extent?

 

It's like finding someones wallet on the ground with money, credit cards, and a home address inside. Do you take it back, or start using the cards as fast as you can before they get blocked?

 

It's a moral choice, and that choice reveals someones true nature.

 

Everyone knows theft is wrong. This is theft.

 

It's wrong.

 

In the UK the real world has specific terms for exactly what this is- "breaking and entering", and "robbery". In this game these are actions that are supposed to be confined to PvP servers.

Edited December 24, 2014 by Heboric

[JudusX 199]

It has to do with how writs and deed permission negate each other. Owners of the writ should be safe other than by the mayor. As what has been said before, an off deed house is safer than on deed houses. That does not sound right does it? No, and its up to the person to report the exploit or suffer the consequence as defined in the rules.

[LorenaMontana 3,008]

It's impossible sometimes to predict how people can behave, so impossible to really control until they do.

some ppl play as a character and see gamin and life completely seperate, being a nasty in a game and in between the rules can be a hobby for some ppl. They like the way they play it, and we all love a different way of playin. thats why we love wurm.

[bootyliciousvip 47]

Because this is the only instance I know of where one of the other settings overrule the writ. The problem is that before it was abused we had NO IDEA that it did, and many others with us didn't either. All other settings are inferior to the writ settings unless you're the mayor.

Who knew about this? A handful of people yes, but it wasn't announced anywhere and it certainly wasn't intuitive. The griefers knew about this and they also knew that others did NOT know, which is what allowed them to abuse this permission workaround.

Why the heck are we even paying for deeds when living in an offdeed house is a lot safer? If someone manages to crack open a wall in an offdeed house by using a workaround it would be a clear case of abuse. Now because we were abused on a deed a handful of people are blaming us. WE did not ask for them to bash our walls, we were fully confident that the writs were superior because how on Earth would people otherwise be able to work on their own houses in a village?

I

In the permissions it says bash gives permission to bash houses. Sorry, there aren't that many permissions. I'm not condoning this, but failure to read permissions and setting them to brand new people is on your end. 

 

It specifically says

Destroy houses, fences or walls or removing lamp posts or signs.

How on earth can you claim that is in any way buggy, or unclearly? DESTROY HOUSES. Right at the very front.

Edited December 24, 2014 by bootyliciousvip

[Archaed 2,280]

"It could've been you" It did happen to me. 

What'd gm's say? "Sorry, you invited them to the village. It sucks but there's nothing we can do!" The exact same thing ought to be said here, unless we want to bring up literally 100's of other cases where this happened and nothing was done.  it doesn't take a phd in permissions to prevent this. I don't get how so many people are claiming trouble with permission. 

 

I'm sorry, but the argument of "it happened to me so dont cry if it happened to you" is ridiculous. Clearly we can all see a way in which there is an abuse of the system and we all want it stopped.

 

This isnt about who it happened to in the past, this is about making sure it doesnt happen to anyone in the future.

[Aeris 3,750]

In the permissions it says bash gives permission to bash houses. Sorry, there aren't that many permissions. I'm not condoning this, but failure to read permissions and setting them to brand new people is on your end.

 

It specifically says

Destroy houses, fences or walls or removing lamp posts or signs.

How on earth can you claim that is in any way buggy, or unclearly? DESTROY HOUSES. Right at the very front.

It is NOT stated in the settings that it overrides the Writ permissions. It says that on the Settlement form perhaps, but co-mayors handle the settings via the token - Not the form. Though I have to say that last time I checked the Settlement form it did not state it anywhere on that either.

Edited December 24, 2014 by Aeris

[bootyliciousvip 47]

It does NOT says that in the settings. It says that on the Settlement form perhaps, but co-mayors handle the settings via the token, not the form.

Looking at my deed right now. Would you like a screenshot?