Tragedy at Silent Hill

[Berris 587]

Love the picture  Merry Christmas!

[spellcast 983]

Kinda curious but I tried to destroy abandon buildings set up by players that haven't played in years a long time ago and could not do it even as mayor. Reading about this incident I went and checked again and still can't destroy buildings I don't hold the writ to on deed. Is there something I'm missing in settings to let the mayor clean house or is this a fluke?

 

You should be able to destroy buildings on deed as mayor, since all settings are always enabled for a mayor, HOWEVER.... are you premium with >21 body str?  because that's a requirement to bash anything in wurm, deed or not. 

[Zorrent 8]

Just a tiny bandage fix for a large wound bleeding out. Thanks Devs.

 

In a sense, I think that's exactly what it is- temporary "first aid" while they work on a more permanent fix. No need to be so hard on Code Club (let's not forget Enki posted here on their behalf). Just to make sure it's clear to posters (like "bootyliciousvip") who are just arriving and haven't read the entire thread, the permission explainations look to have been recently changed (in response to this very thread, no less). Also, just to be clear- I'm not blaming anyone for seeing thirteen pages (with many of the posts looking like spirited persuasive essays) as a little daunting to read.

[Audrel 2,223]

Not to mention CC is on Christmas break.

[Dairuka 888]

Really sad to see such griefing happen. It does clearly show that the current deed setting system isn't clear enough, and that it could probably use more settings too. For example, this would likely never have happened if there were several destroy settings:

- Destroy fences

- Destroy furniture (lamps, etc)

- Destroy house walls - writ restricted

- Destroy house walls - all

- Lockpicking

 

Instead it's all been thrown into one setting. It's stuff like that where the current deed setting system leaves a lot of room for improvement.

 

I don't think this problem is going to go away by itself. The perpetrators are still out there, and still buying accounts for the expressed purpose of stealing other people's things.

 

This change needs to happen before anybody else gets scammed.

Edited December 25, 2014 by Dairuka

[Fairyshine 3,183]

Really sad to see such griefing happen. It does clearly show that the current deed setting system isn't clear enough, and that it could probably use more settings too. For example, this would likely never have happened if there were several destroy settings:

- Destroy fences

- Destroy furniture (lamps, etc)

- Destroy house walls - writ restricted

- Destroy house walls - all

- Lockpicking

 

Instead it's all been thrown into one setting. It's stuff like that where the current deed setting system leaves a lot of room for improvement.

As many people make arched walls and put fences inside them to keep people out, it is important that there should be two Destroy fences on the destroy options list as well:  

 

Destroy Fences not attached to a house

Destroy fences - all

 

Perhaps we should also think about the pass fences/gates permissions.  For example, is a portcullis seen as a gate if it leads into a house, or not?  I know palisade gates remain gates, not doors, so do all gates we can currently place inside arched walls, so be careful if you think these allow you keep people out.  If a portcullis is a gate, we need this to be changed so it becomes a proper house door and won't let randoms through if you just have pass fences/gates options ticked.  Also, just changing it so you have gates/fences directly attached to a building as a separate option for passing, as opposed to gates/fences surrounded by other gates/fences, we can effectively make houses with open doors but certain areas sealed off from general public if they are locked and placed inside the house itself. 

[Mordraug 2,542]

At this rate it's gonna be easier to write actual clear rules and enforcing them than all this recoding to keep any resemblance of functionality while actually allowing legitimate players to enjoy the game without being easy pickings for the unscrupulous.... 

 

 

... 

 

... 

 

*rereads own comment*  OMG I'M A GENIUS!! 

[Miretta 1,415]

At this rate it's gonna be easier to write actual clear rules and enforcing them than all this recoding to keep any resemblance of functionality while actually allowing legitimate players to enjoy the game without being easy pickings for the unscrupulous.... 

 

 

... 

 

... 

 

*rereads own comment*  OMG I'M A GENIUS!! 

"rewriting" something into something how it's working with everything else? "writ settings ALWAYS above deed settings" seems to me, like that destroy setting is the exception in the code

[Minobu Tetsuhara 50]

Let's see... Stealing stuff worth likely multiple thousands of dollars in RL money and then offering to "ransom" it back via an auction site?  Tell me again how the culprits have not committed a felony crime?  How about tell me all about how offline they are actually nice people who can be trusted to know that the door to my home is not locked while I am away at the grocery store and they can just walk right in and steal my gun collection?  Since you think they are such nice people offline how about you let me tell you about this great bridge I can sell you.

 

In any game I've ever played this is a deed that should rightly be stomped on with combat boots by the GMs.  And then the names and IPs of the guilty published on the forums for all to know so that other games can see it and give them the boot too.  I don't want to hear any of that no guts moral ambivalence in this regard.

 

As others have said... please PM  me the names of those you believe involved so I can KOS them on the two deeds I control as well as 2 more I am caretaking... and perhaps a few more as I talk to people.

 

These names should be known... and KOS should happen to them on every deed on every server.

 

Now as for myself, reading all this really brings up those trust issues.  I am in an Alliance.. sort of... since most all of them ran off to Xanadu.  Let me just say here that Xanadu sucks, but I digress.  I have stayed in this largely dead Alliance because I saw no real reason to leave since the other Alliance I might have joined has either gone idle or also run off to Xanadu.

 

Remember previously where it was said that in the past some of this style of theft was done by person or persons who are now part of the staff?  Well, in this Alliance of mine, are persons who are part of the staff.  And on my deed I had set things so Alliance members could drop by, get some sleep, raid me for a meal, etc. as needed.  Now there I suppose is a trust issue.

 

Another member of this Alliance who previously quit the Alliance, due to another Alliance member bragging about all the rares he was getting and selling, such that this first member, a long time player with a known name, came to believe he was exploiting to get them.  Since this rares guy was, ah... staff also, this first guy was having a real problem with that.  He especially had a problem with apparently getting rares to sell through apparent exploiting since he had personally made 500 pickaxes and imped them all to 90 without once getting the damned rare pickaxe he was after.

 

And now that I read about how an Alliance member or villager can use that membership to raid my deed... bash my walls... change permissions on it... add villagers... and even REMOVE ME AS MAYOR AND DISBAND MY DEED despite it being MINE and I AM THE MAYOR?  Yeah, now that's a trust issue right there.

 

So somebody that could possibly be of a raiding frame of mind who ran off to Xanadu but is still in the Alliance on Indy could conceivably come on over and do all that to me.  I'm not saying someone would, but that someone CAN if they wanted to.  Or just someone who just sold their toon for that matter.  And then GMs who might well be his pals would tell me sorry, my stuff is gone?  And the deed, if I even got it back will be 5x5, no money in the coffer, and not the deed the size of Texas that it was before I got robbed?  And my horse herd that I spent the past 3 YEARS of my life breeding up slain in the bargain?  That happens to me, somebody just took 1-3 thousand US dollars right out of my wallet plus time spent from the limited amount of years I am going to live that I will never get back wasted by the destruction.  Yep.  Trust issue.

 

Sorry, other Alliance members who read this and might know of the incident I spoke of.  While my concern is likely entirely unfounded in this regard, I have just decided that the risk of such griefing requires me to leave the Alliance and turn back into a hermit even though it means I won't get to say hi in Alliance chat anymore when you are back on Indy now and then.  That's a hole the size of Kansas in deed security that I didn't read any indication of it getting fixed any time soon and that just won't do.  I don't do PVP because I play to have fun, not to be robbed, pissed off and wronged in the name of someone else's evil version of fun and then be told I'll just have to live with it.

[Minobu Tetsuhara 50]

And does this deed exploit stuff also extent to people on the friends list?  Just a little food for thought there.

[Raybarg 437]

And does this deed exploit stuff also extent to people on the friends list?  Just a little food for thought there.

 

This is a valid question, not really about role permissions, but more about the carts and ships you might own. Think about that you might have randomly encountered that JohnDoe three years ago and you agreed on putting yourselves on friends lists. Then those years pass and you no longer even remember this person, yet he is still in your friends list. Along the years you also allowed your friends to command your ships and your carts. Then it turns out JohnDoe is now in possession of either same person or new owner, with the intention to roam around, with very old toon with very fat friends list... and proceed to "get everything that has not been nailed down".

[Miretta 1,415]

i think the deed stealing issue was happening due to having a democracy   but not certainly sure how that specific case went. And i think it's sad, if people are starting to even more have single-man deeds, just because they have to be afraid to be robbed like on a pvp server 

 

i just hope for the sake of our small community, that there will be changes incoming for such things to not happen again and that in the future we will have rules that allow punishing of culprits 

[Mordraug 2,542]

Thing with deed setting priorities... I think it's become a case of "i before e except after c", with exceptions like:

beige, cleidoic, codeine, conscience, deify, deity, deign, dreidel, eider, eight, either, feign, feint, feisty, foreign, forfeit, freight, leization, gneiss, greige, greisen, heifer, heigh-ho, height, heinous, heir, heist, leitmotiv, neigh, neighbor, neither, peignoir, rescient, rein, science, seiche, seidel, seine, seismic, seize, sheik, society, sovereign, surfeit, teiid, veil, vein, weight, weir, weird, caffeine, casein, codeine, deil (Scots, devil), disseize, either, geisha, inveigle, keister (slang, buttocks), keister, leisure, onteith, neither, obeisance, phenolphthalein, phthalein, protein, seizin, sheila (Australian slang for "girl", not capitalized),

specie, species, sheila (Australian slang for "girl", not capitalized), specie, species, all plural forms of words ending with "cy" .....................................................................

And it seems like people are supposed to figure them out on the go, through trial and error, and getting "legally" robbed... and inb4 the "theifs r kul" crowd, no, that's not cool.   Would be sort of .. SORT OF.. ok if every instance of the Wurm logo in the websites and game had a big "BETA" on it and cost accordingly.

Edited December 25, 2014 by Mordraug

[Cecci 1,609]

The deed was stolen because someone trusted had let a skilled toon rights on her deed, don't know why,
and then this toon could go to the other deed, add himself and more toons to village and declare democracy.
And in the moment a new mayor was elected the deed form disapeared. After that they kicked out owner from deed.
Luckily they did not kick out all villagers (all were toons of deed owner) so he could do a few things on token.

Edited December 25, 2014 by Cecci

[Aeris 3,751]

And does this deed exploit stuff also extent to people on the friends list?  Just a little food for thought there.

 

Unless they fixed the lockpicking bug (which I reported in June) then yes there is a deed exploit regarding people on your friends list. The lockpicking setting did absolutely nothing last time I tried. If a person is on the writ to the house AND on your friends list they can lockpick your items even though they do not have the "lockpicking permission" on the deed (they do in fact not even have to be part of the deed). So there is a lot of ambiguity in the permissions and also a lot of cases where the writ overrides everything which makes it even more confusing that it doesn't in the case of the destroying permission.

 

(Edit: http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/103761-lockpicking-settings-on-deed-not-working/ for more detailed information)

Edited December 25, 2014 by Aeris

[nosfirebird 193]

The deed was stolen because someone trusted had let a skilled toon rights on her deed, don't know why,

and then this toon could go to the deed token(that he was apart of), add himself (already was in deed)and more toons to village and declare democracy.

And in the moment a new mayor was elected the deed form disapeared. After that they kicked out owner from deed.

Luckily they did not kick out all villagers (all were toons of deed owner) so he could do a few things on token(there was no toons kicked out).

fixed it for you

you cant add people to a deed that you are not in. you also are unable to kick anyone when its a democracy.(unless original mayor i believe i dunno)

 

edit: once i get more time ill comment on all the other misinformation but fam just got here.

Edited December 25, 2014 by nosfirebird

[Westfold 14]

fixed it for you

you cant add people to a deed that you are not in. you also are unable to kick anyone when its a democracy.(unless original mayor i believe i dunno)

 

edit: once i get more time ill comment on all the other misinformation but fam just got here.

 

I bet you mommy is proud of you.

[Audrel 2,223]

fixed it for you

you cant add people to a deed that you are not in. you also are unable to kick anyone when its a democracy.(unless original mayor i believe i dunno)

 

edit: once i get more time ill comment on all the other misinformation but fam just got here.

 

I don't know what is more insulting... what you have been doing, you coming to this thread, or you still being allowed in Wurm Online at all.

[Mordraug 2,542]

All I can say is that this is making CodeClub look reaaally..... mediocre (it's xmas so i'll be nice).

[Zorrent 8]

I bet you mommy is proud of you.

I don't know what is more insulting... what you have been doing, you coming to this thread, or you still being allowed in Wurm Online at all.

 

Remember, don't feed the trolls ;3 Seriously, the guy's clearly an attention grabber. Auctioning off the alt named as soon as this becomes a huge issue? No question he's wallowing at its center >.> But as strange as it sounds, it's hardly about him at this point; it's more about the issue he exploited and the lack of rules to deal with his sort.

 

All I can say is that this is making CodeClub look reaaally..... mediocre (it's xmas so i'll be nice).

As far as looking mediocre, I hate to say this, but it would look mediocre to throw their own rules aside just to satisfy the desire to see someone's head on a stick. And don't get me wrong- I don't just want to see the individual(s) banned; I know a ban would certainly protect players from future abuse of similar faults. Granted, I stick by having said the fears of corrupt CA's/CM's is still well-founded, but I guess what's also well founded and worth pointing out is that Code Club may be struggling to enforce their rules with integrity.

Edited December 25, 2014 by Zorrent

[LorenaMontana 3,008]

U folks can also look it in a different way: ppl like this filter out a lot of the flaws in the system, so they are actually some sort of bugtester in a nasty way. In the long run stuff like this won't happen anymore, coz of lessons in the past. and this is a perfect example of a lesson.

[Mordraug 2,542]

Not touching the "corruption" part with a 10-foot pole, Zorrent.... the near-unexistent flawed as hell set of rules combined with poorly-explained (possibly even poorly-understood by wurm's staff) permissions' priority mechanics (and/or bugged)... That's bigtime what's making CodeClub mediocre.  Allows for a majority of players to be harassed by a douchey minority which, morality aside, is a baaad business move... that is unless nosfey and his sorts can afford to fund Wurm by themselves, in which case it would be fair to tell the other players that they're no longer needed to run Wurm so they can make informed decisions regarding their money.

 

 

 As far as looking mediocre, I hate to say this, but it would look mediocre to throw their own rules aside just to satisfy the desire to see someone's head on a stick. 

 

If I may counterpoint that comment, it's been done before, and for way shoddier reasons than stopping a genuine, confirmed thief and nuisance.  Besides... really.. what rules to throw aside?  If anything CC would be FINALLY making actual rules where at very bloody least thieves are forced to try to hide their actions, not flaunt them in everyone's face because of potential... gasp... consequences.

[Dairuka 888]

Justice: http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/116116-the-naughty-of-1045/#entry1186923

 

We still need to get the word out about the hazards though. Many people don't read the forums, so spread the word in chat as well. Refer to my signature.

Edited December 25, 2014 by Dairuka

[Firestarter 1,210]

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/116116-the-naughty-of-1045/

[Kegan 3,926]

Well looks like they were banned now lets hope you get back some of your items too. 

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/116116-the-naughty-of-1045/