Trading System

[sunsvortex 599]

Wurm has always needed a true trading system. It allready has the vast majority of infrastucture and they now have the devs to do it. So I think its time to invest some time to getting one going. Heres my opinion on what a good trading system should do.

 

Goals

1. Foster and Support Local Economies ( Local economies should be the back bone of a good trading system. It is at this level the individual can start to make a name for themselves as a trader and where everyone begins)

 

1.5 Work Completely on the rules of Supply and Demand

 

2. Be Player Driven - not Player Dependent (Right now WURM is player dependent, that is, if the only high level weaponsmith is offline and his merchant is in BFE it can be pretty hard to find out if this person has the items your looking for on thier merchant or even where that merchant is. More often than not, one needs to catch this person online and place any orders for items you need. This type of setup is completely player dependent ie trade doesnt happen unless the right players are online at the time you need them. Even with merchants, many times these players do not stock items in bulk due to any number of reasons. Now if the player quits the game then everything goes downhill even more. Players should be able to find anything they need without a lynchpin player, while preserving an individuals ability to make a name for themselves as a well known crafter.)

 

3. Use Exisiting Infrastructure As Much As Possible ( the less the devs need to add to make it work the faster it will be to implement, the less complex it will be to implement, the cheaper it will be to implement, the more bang for your developer buck ie ROI)

 

4. Allow All Players Regardless of Skill To Participate ( This is crucial as trading should be available to all players, not a select few at very high skill levels)

 

5 Foster and Support Cross Server Trade ( While players can go to other servers to buy goods, there are rarely any cases where this becomes feasable. This should be a daily occurance with large profit margins.)

 

6. Integrate PvE with PvP ( Right now WURM has a HUGE divide between the PvE and PvP playerbases. Everyone that reads the forums can attest to this, the threads are everywhere. Neither shall the two meet without some type of eventual conflict. Trade should be used to bridge that gap. It should allow a way for everyone to participate in pvp, even if only indirectly as well as pvp should be buying tons of resources from the safer lands providing a good profit for the PvE'ers. )

 

So what would such a system look like in Wurm?

 

A few rules of the thread

 

1. If you dont like the concept just say so, no need to explain why, just say so, no need to make up stuff to support your position.( If you cant prove it, then dont post it)

2. Feel free to post an alternative way that you think it should be built. Add goals as you see fit - but take none away.

 

First you have to have something to trade. Any item that has value to another player clearly can and should be traded. So In WURM we have an enormous amount of items that can be traded but for purposes of this thread im going to stick mainly with bulk items, food, building materials ect ect ect.

 

The Trading Post

 

This would need to be a critical piece of infrastructure and should be preplaced by devs and marked on the map. Players do not create them nor can they buy and place them. They are the place where trade takes place, they are stable and always available. They represent a  trade hub of a local economy. Players that have deeds within its "area of influence" aka (AOI) have an icon that they can click on to open up the trading post. Within the trading post window one would see all the goods people have listed for sale, the names of the people that have them for sale, and its all local. If you do not own a deed OR are not a villager of said deed, within the area of influence of the Trading Post you may not place items for sale, but you may buy those items. (More on this later) will be charged an import tax on top of your sale price. The tax will be a variable % determined by players in the AOI of the trading post ranging from say 0 to 10% as an example. Taxes from the sale of imports are held in the Trading Post and can be used to buy policies(buffs) that affect the deeds located within the local Trading Posts AOI.

 

Selling Your Goods

Selling starts with packaging.In this example im going to use a packaging item called a Packaging Crate or PC for short. PC's are nothing more than regular small and large crates that have been stamped as a PC. So we would need an option to Stamp a crate to make it a packaging crate. It may not even be nessisary to use this concept and just sell using normal crates, but im going to put it in for now. Items in the packaging crate cannot be used untill they are unloaded into some other container. They can however be instantly resold without having to transfer the items to a different PC.

 

Once you get your goods packaged, you then must transport them to the Trading Post. To sell them just ride right up in whatever vehicle your using and click on the Trading Post to make sure it is the active target, Open whatever inventory your goods are located in and select the PC you wish to add. Enter in the price you want to sell it for and your done. The PC is loaded into the trading Posts inventory and listed on the market. If the item is sold you will recieve your money via current mail system. All Trading Posts should have a mailbox so you can use it as a mailbox as well.

 

How to Buy Goods, Browse Goods, and Check Availability of Goods

A new piece of infrastructure is needed at this time to facitate trade. We need a Window we can open that allows us to browse our local markets, server markets and global markets. When it first opens we should see a listing of all the items on our local market, the prices and amount for sale as well as quality of said items. There could be any other related data such as name of creator or any other type of information that may be useful. At the bottom we would have a search button and the ability to pick between local only server wide and globally. We have allready seached by local market by simply opening the market screen and have all the normal functions of searching a list of objects / items (Sort by). If we tick the Local Server option we increase our search range to all local markets on the current server. Items listed will have the name of the Local trading post listed. then if we want to increase our search range we can instead tick Global. Which searches all the markets in the game that are accessible by you. Ie if your in freedom you cant search the PVP servers except chaos because you can get there with some way of transporting goods.

 

Assuming you have found the goods you are looking for you then need to purchase them. Purchasing can be done remotely through your market screen and your items will be at the Trading post you purchased them from. You have say....two weeks... to pick them up and if you do not pick them up they are destroyed and cannot ever be picked up. If you were selling an item and it was sold the money will be delivered via the current mail system. All trading posts should have a high QL High Cast mailbox so you could use thiers if you dont have your own. When you pick up the items you simply pull up next to the trading post in whatever transport vehicle your using, click on the trading post and "Recieve Items". Those PC's will be placed on the ground in front of you, ready to be loaded into your ship or wagon or cart or whatever.

 

Now we need a tad bit more infrastructure in the form of a new skill called , what else but , "Trading". You gain points in this skill as you perform trading actions. Any number of things can be considered trading actions but for now and for this example its enough to say well need it.  The trading skill controls how many slots you have available to sell your wares in. The higher the trading skill the higher the number of slots available.For this example im going to say that every 10 points you get 1 extra slot and everyone starts with a single slot so that its possible to have 1 to 11 slots. If you fill a PC with max items, say 300 as in a large crate that gives a lot of items one can have on the market at one time. Its a super simplified way to do it, but for now itll work.

 

Buy Orders

Players should also be able to place buy orders on the trading post for items they wish to purchace.

 

Example (im just going to basicly use the way EVE does it because I know it works)

 

You open up your trading post window, click a buy order tab and switch to the buy order window.

You are presented with all the players buy orders that are local. Again as before you can increase the range to server wide or global.

You have a button that says PLACE BUY ORDER. If you clcik this you can put in what you want to buy. IE lets say 10000 mortar.

You then put in the item and amount you want to buy, the price at which you are buying and the minimum QL you will accept.

After putting in your infoprmation you can push a button that says PLACE ORDER.

When you place an order all the money needed to buy it is taken from your bank account and held for distribution to pay for the items.

 

If you want to fill a buy order, say the 10000 mortar, it can be done all at once or piecemeal. If you have 5000 mortar you navigate to the buy orders window (note you must be at the location where the buy order is listed. ie if the buy order is at Trading post x you must be at trading post x to fill it.) Right click the buy order you wish to fill and the the PC's are taken from whatever inventory its held in and placed into the Trading Post and you are paid.

 

As a variant Posted by Othob

 

Example: Trade Depot A has 1000 bricks at 9i each and 5000 more at 10i. Trade depot B has buy orders for 500 bricks at 9i and 5000 at 10i. A player moves enough "cargo" from A to B for 1000 bricks (priced 9i) to move. the order for 500@9 is filled, and the order for 5000@10 buys the remaining 500@9. the player makes another trip and can move 5x as many cargoes this time. 4500 bricks move to fill the last buy order (4500@10) and the remaining cargo (worth 500 bricks) is either lost or is 'saved'  to instantly fill the next orders. Now that there is nothing more bought at B sold at A, B will no longer pay for cargo from A. Another player was too slow and has a stack of cargo from A. He could move on and try to sell it at C if he wanted. If he doesn't find a buyer, the cargo will decay away.

 

 

 

So now we have a base infrastructure

We have a way to see everything thats available locally, server wide and globally.

 

We can purchase those items and do not have all the extra logistics involved of is the player online, are they going to be online when I arrive, what happens if I cant make it there in x amount of time. Your items are instantly available and ready for pickup at your leisure.

 

Items that are sold can be done so while the seller is offline and no one is completely dependent on who is online at any given time.

 

We have permanent places of trade, not dependent on players, but highly player driven. These trading posts will always be avaiable and always have the same location. Stability for planning.

 

We have only created 2 things that must be developed - A super mailbox (Trading Post), and a way to package bulk items. and yet now have an infrastructure that can be built upon to facilitate a good trading system.

 

A special note on AOI

AOI can be as easy as saying -when you place your deed the closest Trading post will be your Local trading post. If you happen to place your deed token the same distance from 2 Trading Posts then youll get a choice between the two. Again this is determined at deed placement.

 

Fleshing Out Trade (Input Output)

A trade system works by supply and demand. If supply is too high and demand is low prices drop, If supply is low and demand is high prices go up. A standard price for everything is what we have now, and I must say I hate it with an unbridled passion. Prices should always fluctuate given supply and demand. Since WURM has no such concept in play we have an oversupply of nearly everything. So it falls to reason that in order to have a properly functioning trade system you need to be able to affect both supply and demand of bulk items.

 

 We have lots of ways raw materials and processed /crafted items are put into existence, what we dont have are enough ways to take them out of the system. IM going to categorize some things here just for the ease of discussion.

Raw Goods - Raw Unsmelted Ores, Logs, Felled Trees, Sprouts, Clay, Sand, Dirt, ect ect ect

Construction Materials -Stone Bricks, Planks, Nails, Shingles, ect ect ect

Farmed Goods - Crops, Meat, Juices, ect ect ect.

 

Raw goods are greatly in oversupply and need to be a lot more limited in volume. Because there are so many different types of Raw Goods one sink wont fit them all so there will need to be several sinks in order to keep things balanced.

 

Construction Materials I think are fine for an initial implementation of a trade system as its the closest thing in WURM working under the supply and demad rules. So those should be fine for the initial implementation.

 

Farmed goods need tons of work and the area which I will offer the most as far as what I think needs to be done. Farmed Goods need to have a lot more meaning than what they have now. Thier only real use is to feed priests. You can forage for enough to feed yourself and any animals you have may require a bit of farming to feed them just depends. SO they really have little to no meaning. This needs to be changed. IM going to go with some rather large changes as thats whatI think would be needed to balance everything out.

The WInter

 

Every winter a random check is made on every server and this could result in 3 things. Mild Winter (Crop growth Bonus, low chance of animal death) Avg Winter (no crop bonuses or nerfs) Harsh Winter ( 75% less yield to all farmed tiles. Animals have a very high chance of dying. They need x 4 the normal amount of special feed.)

 

Only certain crops grow during the winter, Winter wheat, Winter squash are the first 2 that come to mind. But i certainly wouldnt go for more than 3 or perhaps 4 tops crops that could grow in the winter.

 

Single Season

 

Plant in the spring harvest in the fall - self explanatory and really whallops the amount of farmed goods one can have.

 

Foraging is not possible during the winter (Removed as too issue laden for new players)

 

Wurmians consume twice to 4 times as much during the winter. IE when you do eat you go through the meals very very fast regardless of QL. (Removed as too ineffeicient as a sink)

 

Animals must be fed a special feed in the winter to help them live through it. This feed is a high concentration of a number of farmed grains and vegetables that can be stockpiled over the regular growing season, then crafted into the animal feed. If animals are not fed this feed they have a high chance of freezing to death during the winter season.

 

Disease - starting in spring and running through fall every WURM Month your Local Trading Posts AOI is checked for disease. If your area is hit with a disease all crops produce only 25% to 50% of thier normal yield with a 0 result possible for all surviving tiles. A minimum 75% of all farmed tiles will instantly be turned to weeds.It is possible to have a 100% loss of your farmed tiles. Immediately removing the weeds and harvesting whatever is left will be your best bet as if you do not harvest the disease will rapidly spread to other tiles turning them to weeds. Keeping your farmed tiles raked and in good shape should count as a modifier to disease prevention.

 

Special Note -Disease lasts the entire month it hits so any crops planted may be diseased during this time.

 

The goal here is to ensure that there will be lean times. Food should be scarce and you should have to other areas to purchace goods. If multiple areas of your server have been hit with disease adn followed by a harsh winter it will be required that you need to go to another server to get the food stocks you need. Hard times are hard times. Stockpiles may get you though some of the lean times, but they dont last long and must be constantly restocked.

 

Now once something along those lines are in you will start to have a good market for farmed goods that encourages server wide and cross server trade for those goods. If setup correctly one should also be able to barter just as well as buy the needed goods. There are a lot of sinks there and with proper balance it should be able to take out of the system just as much as can be put in.

 

Trade Guilds

 

An optional addition would be to tie in the voting system to make a local trade guild. Once you reach say 80 skill in Trading you are allowed to vote in the trade guild on policies that would affect your local area trade. If you are the mayor of a deed then you can vote in the Local Trade Guild on policies that would affect all deeds in the local trading posts AOI. For instance You could vote to allow people from other tradingposts AOI to sell items in your local AOI and add an import tax to everything they sell. You could vote to install a monopoly on an item, say Stone Bricks. What this would do is auto set the price for stone bricks for everyone that sells them in your local Trading Post. Maybe you could vote to install an export tax for locals that sell thier goods elsewhere, so that when it is sold that tax is either eaten up By CC or distributed back into the local system. there are all kinds of possibilities using policies to create very interesting trading setups. Taxes gained through policies are available to the trade guild to purchase buffs that affect all deeds in the local AOI. They last 3 months and must be voted in and funded using taxes gained through trade. Funding must be voted in and applied every 3 months or the buff is removed.

 

Part 2 Inc.

Edited December 30, 2014 by sunsvortex

[Griffith 362]

Eject was working on something that i think could be integrated into the game somehow.

i dont know how far he is into it, but anyway an ingame auction house

integrated to the mail system i think is the way to go. forum trading is

not ideal in my opinion. 

 

this is eject's auction house http://woah.wurmonline.info/

 

and his other goodies http://www.wurmonline.info/

[Onyr 185]

This is well thought out.  Some sort of trading post would be very interesting.

 

The farming and animal impact sounds similar to Don't Starve.  It would increase the difficulty to beginning players, and greatly increase the assistance offered by settlements. 

 

I believe something should be forage capable, or perhaps the Winter debuff increases forage timers, and wool clothing would counteract it.

 

New players would need a buff to help with the first winter.  You are blessed with <Inner Fire>  You feel strong enough to survive winter without much struggle.

[sunsvortex 599]

This is well thought out.  Some sort of trading post would be very interesting.

 

The farming and animal impact sounds similar to Don't Starve.  It would increase the difficulty to beginning players, and greatly increase the assistance offered by settlements. 

 

I believe something should be forage capable, or perhaps the Winter debuff increases forage timers, and wool clothing would counteract it.

 

New players would need a buff to help with the first winter.  You are blessed with <Inner Fire>  You feel strong enough to survive winter without much struggle.

Sure, all of those are just sinks and should be adjusted to get the balance between difficulty of play and supply. Wool would be a great one as if say you were wearing all wool clothes you would mitigate the eating debuff to a degree.

Edited December 18, 2014 by sunsvortex

[Othob Rithol 700]

I'd love just the pve elements you've suggested to drive up demand of goods, even without the trading system. All in all, well thought out. I'd prefer it without the added skill and I'd also simplify the trade posts a bit (AOI is irrelevant, wherever you take the goods to is where they can be bought) and I'd be against any way to move goods between trading posts remotely.without actually moving them. If the system is liquid enough price differentials between areas of abundance and areas of scarcity will emerge and players so interested can do the work for whatever margin there is.

[lawurm 337]

+1 some great concepts in there.

 

This would be a suitable replacement for traders and merchants i think too.

[sunsvortex 599]

Part 2

 

So now that we have a base trading infrastructure we need to do a couple more things to really tie everything up with a bow.

 

1. We need a way to handle Individual Item sales

2. we need a way to tie in the PVP side

3. Some better cross server logic -ie why go cross server.

 

Individual Item Sales

 

I purposely stayed away from an auction house setting in the first part just so we could explore getting a very basic and fundamental system in place and look to see how it might function. However, individual item sales in an auction house setting I think work best for the largest majority of players in the gaming industry so ultimately it should be built in. Since nearly every MMo' in existence has an auction house I dont think it needs any explanation except to say it should not need any packaging to place it on the Auction house and those items bought must be picked up at the trading post in which they were bought, meaning if you are in Trading post x and you purchase an item from trading post y then you need to travel to trading post y to pick it up....no auto mailing. Ok so why no automailing, as right now we can mail a lot of items? Because were trying to enforce and support local economies. In my setup I really want to force local economies and local professions. It could be that ultimately its better to auto mail the individual items but never ever should bulk items be auto mailed. The idea of auto mailing items is an arguable point and both sides have a fairly good argument.

 

Now since an auction house is a bit more complex coding it could wait and be done in a two phase implementation, getting the base structure in first to see how things work, and make any adjustments. Once thats done one could go in with the auctionhouse to complete the setup.

 

Tieing in the PVP Side

 

This seperation of pvp from pve is odd as hell...it always has been. Trade is definitely a way to bridge that gap as well as give the potential for more pve players participating in pvp. So in order for this to work both pve and pvp sides need something of great value to the other. Currently the pvp side has all kinds of goodies that are regularly brought over to the pve side. The same is not true for the pve side, We have nothing of value to them. The pvp side can get everything the pve side can and a lot more. So we need to address this imbalance. There needs to be a lot of valuable items that can be exported and not just limit it to towers and wagons and banners. There needs to be items unique to each server. Maybe its a food source, maybe its ores, maybe its ship styles, maybe its a construction technique. It really could be anything at all. As a start maybe make a handful of server unique items for each server that have some value to the pvp servers. Ill simply stick to saying these items can only be made upon thier respective server and leave it at that for the moment.

 

The items really need to be useful as aesthetics while maybe popular to a handful on the pvp side are not really the greatest impetus for trade. So Lets list a few possibilities and some possible effects.

 

Feast - Produced on Xanadu - gives huge boost to CR and a boost to HP and Stam. Lasts x amount of time. (Example of food based items)

Catamaran - produced on Celebration - small fast ship that only holds 2 players but can carry 5 PC's. Very high rate of speed in any wind. Very weak and can easily be demoed.(Example of ship type items)

Interlocking Stone bricks - produced on Independence - used in building walls and gives the wall x4 the normal defensive value. Wall section must be built using these exclusively. (Example of Construiction Tecnique)

 

The above are just examples but every server needs a handful of items that would be useful and valuable to the pvp side.And those items really need to be unique to that server. At this point if each server say has 5 items that are geared towards pvp then we have a very basic tie in for pve and pvp. These items can be sold at any of the local trading posts and now the pve side is now indirectly participating in pvp. If we take this a step further and gave ships a single weapon, dont care what it is, dont care how it works, just a way for a ship to attack another ship, we add in the possibility of blockades and people like me who would jump at the chance to run blockades in the aforementioned Catamarans. So now there would be yet another draw to the pvp side. It would need to be that Trading Posts areas would need to prevent pvp. No fighting in those areas. As soon as you step out of that area, game on.

 

Now lets say your just totally against the idea of the pvp guys coming into your area trying to sell thier stuff. Then if your able to vote in the trade Guild you can vote on a policy that does not allow cross server imports. Or may slap a big ole import tax on cross server merchandise. This is why the PC's. Pc's have ownership and are tied to your local trading post. The system can tell where those goods came from and now its possible to identify the server and region those good are coming from. Its really easy at that point to apply any kind of code to them to do all kinds of things.

 

One can keep expanding on this system and make it whatever anyone wants. Every time you expand on it, you are making another way to tie in pvp and pve. The pve'ers can stay out of the main fray as much or as little as they like and contribute on the level they are comfortable with. And for the pvp side they get people they would otherwise have never had participating whether indirectly or directly. It becomes a whole new world for the pvpers.

 

While none of the examples need be used in the fashion I have laid them out, the concept of having the pvp and pve communities interacting both directly and indirectly is a "PROVEN" concept and in my opinion would go a very long way in retaining players. The above examples are a very simplified view of what actually could be accomplished by implementing a trade system. The trade system in my opinion should be the absolute number one priority on the developers to do list. Without question it will open doors for WURM it has never had.

 

One last Edit and something I didnt touch on is that of all the things that were spoke about by the devs in the Q&A none of them will actually make them money directly. Putting in a real trade system, allowing Code Club to charge some sort of listing fee, would allow them to make money directly. It could be used as a sink for silver and ever so slightly, ultimately get more cash shop sales of silver.

 

So again I will state, Putting in a trade system should be the number one priority of Code Club. there are just too many benefits for everyone for it not to be put in and ASAP.

Edited January 16, 2015 by sunsvortex

[Ayes 3,715]

"A few rules of the thread

1. If you dont like the concept just say so, no need to explain why, just say so, no need to make up stuff to support your position."

 

Mmmm, what?! If a person (such as myself) doesn't like your concept for certain reasons they should not respond? If they do respond with reasons for not liking the concept they are "making things up"? If they don't like certain aspects of the concept they should not point them out and their reasoning behind this?

 

You just strive to stifle contrary input by this "rule". The forums don't function in this manner anyway. This could possibly be stated as a request but even then there is no validity to it as a "rule". Communication of various ideas, most likely even contrary to each other is the norm. Your attempt to preempt this normal dialog with this "rule" is the red herring here. Just deal with opposing opinions, as everyone else is liable for when they make some post upon these forums.

 

Maybe you can even attempt to get my response removed as "undesirable"? I fear not your retribution! Hey, hey, that's what I say!

 

=Ayes=

[sunsvortex 599]

"A few rules of the thread

1. If you dont like the concept just say so, no need to explain why, just say so, no need to make up stuff to support your position."

 

Mmmm, what?! If a person (such as myself) doesn't like your concept for certain reasons they should not respond? If they do respond with reasons for not liking the concept they are "making things up"? If they don't like certain aspects of the concept they should not point them out and their reasoning behind this?

 

You just strive to stifle contrary input by this "rule". The forums don't function in this manner anyway. This could possibly be stated as a request but even then there is no validity to it as a "rule". Communication of various ideas, most likely even contrary to each other is the norm. Your attempt to preempt this normal dialog with this "rule" is the red herring here. Just deal with opposing opinions, as everyone else is liable for when they make some post upon these forums.

 

Maybe you can even attempt to get my response removed as "undesirable"? I fear not your retribution! Hey, hey, that's what I say!

 

=Ayes=

Ayes, if you dont like the concept fine, I really dont care. Im not interested in why someone doesnt like something unless they are presenting an alternative. If people are going to Dislike it thats fine, but far too often there reasons disolve into a flame war. If you read other peoples posts they have put in things they didnt like or thought were irrealevant, but also posted things they thought would be ok. Its a discussion...not a pissing contest. I like having discussions, debating valid points or concerns and hearing other peoples points of view and then maybe coming to some sort of overall concensus about the topic.

 

People that like to come in and say, this doesnt work for x reason, and I know because im just that good,LTP, your a noob, or because I have been playing for x amount of time my perogative and my position are clearly superior to others is not constructive in any discussion. An opinion is fine, trying to bolster one with conjecture, intimidation and false claims doesnt sit well with me. If you really feel strongly that a particular item wont work, present factual evidence, show something outside of your opinion that shows imperically that said items either has real concerns or has real issues. IE ( If you cant prove it, dont post it.)

 

If you cant follow 2 simple rules then you probably cant post any information that would be deemed useful to the conversation or debate and it then becomes a troll post.

 

If you believe it wont work fine, post your thoughts, be constructive and also cite some references from something other than an opinion or "experience". Personally I just dont care about either. I do care however about facts, something I can go see for myself, something that is quantifiable, something I know is not inherantly biased. Offer a different solution, offer a differing design, offer something other than language that is disruptive or non constructive.

 

There is no threat either implied or otherwise. But if people start derailing my topic....your damn right Ill do everything I can to get thier posts removed. I didnt come in here to argue I came in here to discuss.

Edited December 20, 2014 by sunsvortex

[Ayes 3,715]

Sunsvortex, Thank you for the clarification of your position of the intent of your rules. Although I find this response to be rather dogmatic, dictatorial and preemptory for divergent opinions being expressed, I will not bother you further with my objections to this stance on your part. Some of it I find reasonable and other parts not, as well as your Trading System proposition. Hopefully something positive will be the result.

 

=Ayes=

[sunsvortex 599]

 

 

This would be a suitable replacement for traders and merchants i think too.

This post made me start thinking about if there was any real way to incorporate either traders or Merchants, and I really cant think of any ways they would be useful. I started to think well maybe people could place merchants on the trading posts grounds and each one then counts as a slot you have, but thats the same thing as buying a slot, and if everyone were allowed to buy as many slots as they liked, the high end people and whales would quickly overrun the market. So then I thought well Othob didnt want the trading skill in and thats what I was using to calculate how many slots were available, so what happens if we take out the trading skill, how do you control how many trading slots someone can get. So I came up with this -

 

Instead of using a trading skill, just do away with that and say the Trading Post also acts like a bank of sorts in that it can hold your money.(you can get it out anytime no restrictions)..but... You cannot add anything to it and the only way money is placed into this system is when you make a successful sale. You then have the option of getting the money immediately or letting it sit in there till you have enough to purchase another trade slot. Each time you buy a slot the price for them gets a little bit higher. This would stop anyone from flooding the market as in order to buy slots you need to be proficient in trade. Whats the best way to judge your proficency in trade?...by the amount of money you make from trade. So if the only way to get the coin into the trading post is by selling something, the more you sell, by default, the more successful a trader you are, and the more slots you can have. Everyone can start with a single slot, but after that you need to purchase any further slots.  This way we drop the number of developed items needed to put in a basic trade system to 2 The PC and The Trading Post and adds controls to the market to keep it from being instantly overrun.

Edited December 20, 2014 by sunsvortex

[sunsvortex 599]

 I'd also simplify the trade posts a bit (AOI is irrelevant, wherever you take the goods to is where they can be bought) and I'd be against any way to move goods between trading posts remotely.without actually moving them. If the system is liquid enough price differentials between areas of abundance and areas of scarcity will emerge and players so interested can do the work for whatever margin there is.

OK so lets do that, lets say there is no default restriction on where one can sell thier goods. Lets say instead that there is a tarrif on imported goods. The amount can be voted on by members of the local trade guild. Now this import tax is on top of the sale price and is based on the price of the item. So once the item is sold that tax is then deposited into the local trade guilds account. The voting members of the trade guild can use this money to purchase...I guess the easiest way to put it is.... buffs for the area. An example might be -

 

The voting members come to session. They can use tax funds to purchase policies that affect every deed within the trading posts AOI. this is a closed system in that the only way to get money into the taxes is by trade, no donations, nothing like that, only through taxes from trade.

 

Examples

1. Quality Development - Raises the quality of bulk goods based on the quality of the item. IE if you put a PC on the market of pumpkins, ql 10, the buff will raise the QL to a % based on the initial quality. The lower the intial quality the higher the bump, the higher the inital QL the lower the bump. A 10 QL PC may be raised to a 30 QL PC as soon as its placed for sale, while a 70 QL PC may not recieve enough to make a difference. This policy would help new people compete and assist the entire area in getting a higher QL standard for thier bulk goods.

 

Youd need to purchase this buff for x amount of coin and it only lasts say 1 quarter or 3 months. After which you must vote again on it and pay again to continue the buff.

 

2. Mining Equipment -  Decreases the mining timer for all deeds in the AOI and decreases the dmg on picks. It costs x amount of coin and lasts for the quarter after which it must be voted on again and paid for.

 

3.Farming Equipment - Decreases raking timer, lowers chance for disease and animal deaths, increases yield by x %, the more tax funds you put into it, the better the buff. Same as above, its funded for 3 months after which it must be voted on and funds allocated.

 

Its really limitless on what could be added as buffs...if you say the more tax funds you add the better the buff, you get a real thing going here as you can decide whats most important to the area. What should those tax silvers be spent on. I think this would be a very interesting system.

Edited December 20, 2014 by sunsvortex

[wipeout 1,355]

changes to trade +1

changes to rest of wurm -1 4 times consumption? do you want to drink every 5 minutes while mining and eat every 7 minutes? or the no foraging in winter what if newbies start out in winter?

now as someone else said dont make it trade resources in between trade posts automatically like there is some hidden npc that does it let actual people purchase and sell it when they notice a price difference between 2 posts so that people can make a profit if they are smart enough to catch it

the system you suggested has been suggested a few times in the past and every time i have hoped for it to be added but chances are it wont be added for a long long time sadly enough

but might i add 1 thing to your list of things

the area of trade that the trade posts have if this idea was ever implemented then rolf please make it so that if 4 posts are placed on say deli that they are posted in each corner of the map(or general region) and that it extends so far that their influence borders touch so the more trading posts the smaller their influence area  but dont limit it to say 4 posts and only the people within 200 tiles of the post that have a deed can list stuff as then itl just be a race of who can post a deed next to it the quickest :/
so either have it being restricted to local deeds only or make it so that everyone can post on those trading posts regardless of when ever they live nearby on a deed or not(sounds more fair to me)

 

now 1 thing i didnt see was the ability for a person to go to a trade post and make a listing of what they want say i want 10000 ql 70-80 iron ore id make a listing and anyone can sell any quantity of ore to my listing and help fill it and get paid and it will also check every other listing from people selling and if its in the same price range itl be used to fill said order

this also comes to  adding in the ability to set quality/price ranges as i know you want it simple but without those 2 in a game like wurm it will lead to chaos and the inability to make listings of what you want to buy
so say i can say that i want to pay 15i per ql 70 iron ore and 20i per ql 80 and i make it so that i want to buy a total of 10k ql 70 to ql 80 iron ore and i put in 20s now anyone can sell me ore within that quality range and get paid accordingly

so if someone has 10k of ql 80 iron they will make 20s if they have 10kg of ql 70 they make 15s and once i pick up my goods after the contract is done(or partly paid for) i get whats left over back into my bank


that would allow one to make a better demand on trade posts as there will be a higher demand then supply if say 1 area consists mostly of smiths with high skill but very few miners who are selling ore 
thus say trade post 32 has 20-30 orders up ranging from ql 50 iron ore to 90 and from 1k to 20k in quanity and trade post 31 has several sell orders up of ql 70 ore

I would now be able to go to trade post 31 and buy all that ore for as much money as i have then go to trade post 32 and sell it thus make a profit as well most likely thus promoting people to trade between each other and trade posts and makes it easy for people to sell bulk or buy bulk

now given all that i do hope that if we get a system like this(a properly coded one and implemented and not coded over the weekend and several 6 packs of beer) that we do keep merchants and traders as merchants are pretty much hired by people to sell specific things in a private area over a public area which if you have both a trading post and merchants would mean you could promote your merchant by selling semi decent ql at trading posts and amazing quality at merchants over at your house




1 of the things id love to see the most right now in the near future is the ability to have merchants have buy orders so that we can setup merchants that buy things that we want from people who travel around and that its implemented in such a way that there are hints of change in wurm which leads to this kind of trading system being added later on as wurm's lore changes due to the times of wurm changing and the people of wurm making this possible by working together

the last part is mostly so that it wont be an other post on a forum and no real story around it and poof magically from 1 day to the next trading posts are added but more like a small story about the desire of the people of wurm wanting to trade and a bunch of them coming together to start the trading posts(which brings me back to the idea i made several years ago about starting something like this with a group of people)

[Outlaw 697]

The main problem with Wurm as I see it, isn't that goods are tough to find or trade, but rather people don't have the need to trade as much as in other games. (I think the real money economy aspect puts a lot of players off too)

 

There are way more producers than there are buyers, for almost every bulk good. Due to the way item's 'usefulness' is tied to their quality, only highly skilled players can produce something worth selling that other people are actually in need of, such as 80ql+ weaponry and highly enchanted goods.

There is the occasional 'rare' or better item produced by low skilled players, which is the main thing they sell that others will actually pay for.

 

The only way I can see bulk goods being traded more frequently is if they were limited by region. Although very few people (myself included) actually want this, as you can no longer play solo so easily.

 

A more realistic option would be to add new items to the game that aren't integral to day-to-day life in Wurm, but can still be produced by players without 80+ skills and are region/server specific, so people actually have to trade them or at least move around to get them.

 

I would love to see an auction house system or something similar to your proposal in-game to facilitate the trade of high end goods however. Even just a searchable database for all the placed merchants (players opt-in with their merchant if they want to be on said list) so you can see what is available where and then travel to pick it up. I've found many great items and bargains on merchants over the years, but it isn't worth the effort traveling around all the markets in Wurm, hoping to find that 1 thing you are looking for.

[Ecrir 887]

I think it's an interesting idea, but I'd remove the trading outpost from the picture. Such things should be player made and run, like existing player run markets. I admit the central location does have advantages, as you are assured that you can access the item which you bought, and you know where to find it.

 

How I'd instead do it is to tie that functionality to merchants. Allow players to put those crates on their merchants. The window which browses through the markets could then include all these merchants. The window could show information about the location of the merchant, mainly which deed it is on (or the owner of the merchant could detail where it is located, for example referencing to coordinates on the map). You could then choose to reserve an item on this merchant and travel to it (the reservation should not last too long, to prevent griefing). You'd then pay the money for the item to the merchant as how it currently works (this prevents griefing where the merchant is not accessible, while ensuring that you need to bring the money to the merchant on a PvP server). Nobody else could buy the item while it is reserved.

 

The merchant owner could then choose which items can be reserved and which can't be. People who reserve a lot of items but consistently fail to pick them up should automatically be penalized by the game, for example by eventually forcing them to pay a deposit when reserving an item, which would only be returned to them when they actually buy the item. Non premium players should have a limit to how many items they can reserve in a week. All players need to have sufficient funds in their bank and inventory in order to reserve an item, and this takes other reservations into account, thus you could never reserve beyond what you can afford.

 

Mailboxes could be tied into this, if a mailbox is near the merchant, then for an additional fee (double usual mail fee) the item could automatically be mailed to you. You'd then have a short window (same as the reservation time, together with the time it takes to send the item) to pick it up from a mailbox. Failure to pick it up would result in the item being returned to the merchant. Of course this only works for items which fit in the mailbox.

 

 

I'd similarly allow merchants to buy used to put up buy orders, for example for a crate with 50kg of iron ore with an average ql between 50 and 70. If you have this and want to sell it to the merchant then you could again put in a reservation, and then travel to the merchant and sell the stuff.

 

 

Traders could also be used to allow anybody to put up items for sale on the trader, or to put up buy orders. Merchants take a percentage of the sale and give it to the king, traders would do the same, but they would also take an extra percentage and give it to the deed upkeep of the deed which they are located on. Thus selling/buying items through traders would be slightly less profitable as they take a bigger cut, but anybody could do it without them needing to buy a merchant, making it quite convenient..

Edited December 20, 2014 by Ecrir

[sunsvortex 599]

changes to trade +1

changes to rest of wurm -1 4 times consumption? do you want to drink every 5 minutes while mining and eat every 7 minutes? or the no foraging in winter what if newbies start out in winter? (Ok just a couple clarifications - the increase in consumption is when you do eat. Not how often you eat. Leave how often you have to eat alone and just increase the amount you must eat in order to restore your bar to full. Thats what I meant by that. The other is about new people and the no foraging. As far as I am concerned you could give a newb a buff where they simply dont have to worry about eating for say 2 weeks to a month. I dont think that that survival aspects of the game should really kick in for quite some time as they only really serve as a deterrant to a large amount of people. I understand and did enjoy it when I first started, and I started in the winter. I didnt have the hordes of food you get from foraging now, it was pretty meager back then. But I joined a village and had some people clue me in and give me some tools and armor and food. All that being said I agree with you and the others who have pointed out the issue of new people and the more I think about the oversupply of food items, the more it begs for a much better solution than what I posted. So Ill rework that to hopefully something a bit better.)

now as someone else said dont make it trade resources in between trade posts automatically like there is some hidden npc that does it let actual people purchase and sell it when they notice a price difference between 2 posts so that people can make a profit if they are smart enough to catch it ( ok yes, I had laid out several times if you purchase an item at trading post x, then you must travel to trading post x to pick up the item. It may be that one could mail some items but personally I am a big proponent of go pick it up.This is whay we have carts, wagons, ships, and horses.)

the system you suggested has been suggested a few times in the past and every time i have hoped for it to be added but chances are it wont be added for a long long time sadly enough

but might i add 1 thing to your list of things

the area of trade that the trade posts have if this idea was ever implemented then rolf please make it so that if 4 posts are placed on say deli that they are posted in each corner of the map(or general region) and that it extends so far that their influence borders touch so the more trading posts the smaller their influence area  but dont limit it to say 4 posts and only the people within 200 tiles of the post that have a deed can list stuff as then itl just be a race of who can post a deed next to it the quickest :/ (Yes placement would be absolutely critical to ensure that there are enough trading posts and they are not too far apart. But too far apart is realative as you said 200 tiles is a long way for you, for me, being used to living in BFE xanadu, 200 tiles is nothing. Thats just a short run over to the neighbors. As long as we are talking about placement, all my examples are based on coastal placement, it could be on a map the size of xanadu you have some landlocked trading posts. This would make cross server trade a bit more difficult as you need to transport in wagons to the coast and then load up a ship and the same for imports, someone would have to have a wagon available to load and then take it inland to sell. There are a couple solutions that come to mind for this. The first is to do something akin to what EVE Online does and simply make the PC "deliverable". People can accept the delivery job, place a bond (the amount the cargo is worth and upon delivery they get the bond money back as well as the payment for the delivery. OR let a player setup a wagon rental on the coast so that cross server merchants can rent a wagon to go inland to put thier goods up for sale. Would also need the areas around such inland trading posts to have a larger amount of the more valuable resources.)

so either have it being restricted to local deeds only or make it so that everyone can post on those trading posts regardless of when ever they live nearby on a deed or not(sounds more fair to me) (Ok yes, I took out the restiction on where you can sell and replaced it with a local tarrif on imported goods.It was in a post on up so Ill spoiler it here.

OK so lets do that, lets say there is no default restriction on where one can sell thier goods. Lets say instead that there is a tarrif on imported goods. The amount can be voted on by members of the local trade guild. Now this import tax is on top of the sale price and is based on the price of the item. So once the item is sold that tax is then deposited into the local trade guilds account. The voting members of the trade guild can use this money to purchase...I guess the easiest way to put it is.... buffs for the area. An example might be -

 

The voting members come to session. They can use tax funds to purchase policies that affect every deed within the trading posts AOI. this is a closed system in that the only way to get money into the taxes is by trade, no donations, nothing like that, only through taxes from trade.

 

Examples

1. Quality Development - Raises the quality of bulk goods based on the quality of the item. IE if you put a PC on the market of pumpkins, ql 10, the buff will raise the QL to a % based on the initial quality. The lower the intial quality the higher the bump, the higher the inital QL the lower the bump. A 10 QL PC may be raised to a 30 QL PC as soon as its placed for sale, while a 70 QL PC may not recieve enough to make a difference. This policy would help new people compete and assist the entire area in getting a higher QL standard for thier bulk goods.

 

Youd need to purchase this buff for x amount of coin and it only lasts say 1 quarter or 3 months. After which you must vote again on it and pay again to continue the buff.

 

2. Mining Equipment -  Decreases the mining timer for all deeds in the AOI and decreases the dmg on picks. It costs x amount of coin and lasts for the quarter after which it must be voted on again and paid for.

 

3.Farming Equipment - Decreases raking timer, lowers chance for disease and animal deaths, increases yield by x %, the more tax funds you put into it, the better the buff. Same as above, its funded for 3 months after which it must be voted on and funds allocated.

 

Its really limitless on what could be added as buffs...if you say the more tax funds you add the better the buff, you get a real thing going here as you can decide whats most important to the area. What should those tax silvers be spent on. I think this would be a very interesting system.

 

now 1 thing i didnt see was the ability for a person to go to a trade post and make a listing of what they want say i want 10000 ql 70-80 iron ore id make a listing and anyone can sell any quantity of ore to my listing and help fill it and get paid and it will also check every other listing from people selling and if its in the same price range itl be used to fill said order

this also comes to  adding in the ability to set quality/price ranges as i know you want it simple but without those 2 in a game like wurm it will lead to chaos and the inability to make listings of what you want to buy

so say i can say that i want to pay 15i per ql 70 iron ore and 20i per ql 80 and i make it so that i want to buy a total of 10k ql 70 to ql 80 iron ore and i put in 20s now anyone can sell me ore within that quality range and get paid accordingly

so if someone has 10k of ql 80 iron they will make 20s if they have 10kg of ql 70 they make 15s and once i pick up my goods after the contract is done(or partly paid for) i get whats left over back into my bank

(Yes this is an excellent idea and I will add it to the OP. Eve Online has this same setup, so there is no question that the concept works and works well. Setting up Buy Orders are a very good idea.)

that would allow one to make a better demand on trade posts as there will be a higher demand then supply if say 1 area consists mostly of smiths with high skill but very few miners who are selling ore 

thus say trade post 32 has 20-30 orders up ranging from ql 50 iron ore to 90 and from 1k to 20k in quanity and trade post 31 has several sell orders up of ql 70 ore

I would now be able to go to trade post 31 and buy all that ore for as much money as i have then go to trade post 32 and sell it thus make a profit as well most likely thus promoting people to trade between each other and trade posts and makes it easy for people to sell bulk or buy bulk

now given all that i do hope that if we get a system like this(a properly coded one and implemented and not coded over the weekend and several 6 packs of beer) that we do keep merchants and traders as merchants are pretty much hired by people to sell specific things in a private area over a public area which if you have both a trading post and merchants would mean you could promote your merchant by selling semi decent ql at trading posts and amazing quality at merchants over at your house( I could certtainly see doing something like this on the pvp side, but why would you do this on the pve side? It would seem to me if your selling something youd want the largest visibilty for that item so you have the best chance to sell it. I honestly dont see why this would be of any benifit. If you sell mediocre items on the Trading Post and then save the best items for your merchant, what would be the point, other than to keep a merchant?)

1 of the things id love to see the most right now in the near future is the ability to have merchants have buy orders so that we can setup merchants that buy things that we want from people who travel around and that its implemented in such a way that there are hints of change in wurm which leads to this kind of trading system being added later on as wurm's lore changes due to the times of wurm changing and the people of wurm making this possible by working together

the last part is mostly so that it wont be an other post on a forum and no real story around it and poof magically from 1 day to the next trading posts are added but more like a small story about the desire of the people of wurm wanting to trade and a bunch of them coming together to start the trading posts(which brings me back to the idea i made several years ago about starting something like this with a group of people)

Edited December 20, 2014 by sunsvortex

[sunsvortex 599]

OP updated to address concerns brought up by others.

[sunsvortex 599]

Ok for those that are proposing using the merchants and traders. There are a lot of reasons I didnt go with them and Ill try and list why I didnt.

 

1. Having permanent locations of trade removes a lot of logistic issues ( where and when can i get my goods, are the permissions correct on the deed for pickup, are those people that sold me that going to be there, what happens if I cant get online for a day or two... ect ect ect)

2.Having permanent locations  removes the possibility of trade hubs dissappearing from either player infighting or players leaving the game.

 

3.Using the existing Merchants and Traders creates a barrier to entry for new players as these items must be bought and they allow whales and high end players the ability to overrun a market because they can be bought. Whales and High endplayers will allready have enourmous advantages when putting in a trade system and I want as level and fair playing field as possible. It should be that a FTP player can come in and work thier own deed and using trade, be able to move to premium and continue to pay for that premium using trade.

 

4. Using permanent locations allows the building of Trade Guilds, AOI policies and buffs, It also serves as a locator for area deeds that can be used in a huge amount of improvements to the game that would require identification of deeds in a given area. IE and this is just an example - lets say one wanted to say in the north lattitudes apple trees dont grow. While the code is allready in for grapes that determines north and south you can get a finer grain of detail by saying all deeds in x, y and z  AOI cannot grow apples as they are in the northen lattitudes.

 

5 It acts as a stable community hub, and cant be pulled up and moved based on a players whim.

 

Traders and Merchants are entirely player dependant...I dont think its a good idea to have a trade system that is player dependent, but rather  player driven. EVE online and Archeage both have player driven trade systems and they work, they work great actually, both of which are implemented in entirely different ways. I prefer to base a WURM trade system on what I know works, what can be proven, what can be looked at and contrasted against, and what has an actual track record to see where its good points are where it may not be the greatest. Its a lot less risk to build something based on a successful and profitable system rather than sticking to something that can be proven not to work well at all.

 

So thats why i didnt go with the existing traders and merchants.

Edited December 20, 2014 by sunsvortex

[Klaa 4,872]

Some comments on trade in wurm. Personally there shouldn't be some global auction system. Yeah yeah there's the forums, though trade is still face to face or limited by mail capacity.

Even Eve Online with its spaced out future tech has a skill and distance limited market system.

Ergo the need for haulers and as a natural extension pirates that raid the convoys.

[sunsvortex 599]

Here is a good example of why I dont support the current Traders and Merchants and went with player driven vs player dependent - Thread

 

Also as another added sink I think we should change how often crops can be grown. IE there is a single growing season, runs from Spring to Fall. You plant in the spring and harvest during the fall. Between the single growing season and disease it should be very easy to tweak things to get the right balance needed to get a market for farmed goods as well as encourage server wide and cross server trade. This would also put a premium on foraged goods as well to assist with lean times.

[Wargasm 1,926]

The trade system isn't the problem.  The skill grind is the problem.  We have to go to those handful of players for high QL items and enchants because they are the only ones that didn't /wrists and actually spent the time to get the skill.

 

Until that changes, feel free to continue waiting for that 1 guy to come online to get your order.

[Othob Rithol 700]

The relationship between skill and maximum crafted quality has always been an issue, and was discussed years ago as well. The current model (skill=max ql) coupled with the mail system creates a situation where the high skilled players absolutely dominate and the lower skilled players have no place in the market. If anyone could imp to any quality, but skill made it easier we wouldn't have this problem. But a lot of master titled players would object loudly if that were changed.

 

For reference : My prior toon had multiple master's titles and I dominated a market, so I know what I am talking about.

 

Fortunately (but not) when they removed skill decay it makes it possible for any character, given time, to master any trade. The net result just compounds the problem with more producers at the top end pushing prices down to low, low levels such that tools/weapons.armor are so cheap nobody would even consider making do with a 50ql tool.

 

Any new market producer has to grind for an absurd length of time to compete in a global market against each and every other crafter, many of whom have been playing for years and have perfect tools and contacts, all over what amounts to a monthly income worth a dinner at a nice restaurant (if they are lucky!)

[sunsvortex 599]

As Othob states above, this is exactly the reason I put in the slots. If you limit the amount of goods/ items one can place on the market you have a control that will allow adjustments for the high end players and whales who will in fact have very large advantages and can easily overrun a market. Eve does it Archeage does it, and wurm should do it in any trade system they have. As it stands currently, there is a real problem with it IE the initial separation of Pristine and Release.

[Ayes 3,715]

The relationship between skill and maximum crafted quality has always been an issue, and was discussed years ago as well. The current model (skill=max ql) coupled with the mail system creates a situation where the high skilled players absolutely dominate and the lower skilled players have no place in the market. If anyone could imp to any quality, but skill made it easier we wouldn't have this problem. But a lot of master titled players would object loudly if that were changed.

 

For reference : My prior toon had multiple master's titles and I dominated a market, so I know what I am talking about.

 

Fortunately (but not) when they removed skill decay it makes it possible for any character, given time, to master any trade. The net result just compounds the problem with more producers at the top end pushing prices down to low, low levels such that tools/weapons.armor are so cheap nobody would even consider making do with a 50ql tool.

 

Any new market producer has to grind for an absurd length of time to compete in a global market against each and every other crafter, many of whom have been playing for years and have perfect tools and contacts, all over what amounts to a monthly income worth a dinner at a nice restaurant (if they are lucky!)

 

I see no problem with this concept. The problem is more the opposite by trying to control this process of growth over time with reward in earning ability. As you point out, these highly skilled crafters keep the prices low for lower quality goods making them more affordable then for everyone. To prevent their sales by distant travel impediments and restrict them to more local markets only hurts the majority who purchase these tools, crops or whatever.

 

I would bet that by far the vast majority of players are purchasers of all these types of things and have little interest in providing them under any circumstances. I see this whole thread as just protectionism of crafter output with only adjustments to distribute it to more of them at the expense of the common player who will just be inconvenienced by these restrictions. Fortunately I don't believe that all these new features suggested will ever be put into effect, so in the end it concerns me little.

 

=Ayes=

Edited December 23, 2014 by Ayes

[tamat 265]

I see no problem with this concept. The problem is more the opposite by trying to control this process of growth over time with reward in earning ability. As you point out, these highly skilled crafters keep the prices low for lower quality goods making them more affordable then for everyone. To prevent their sales by distant travel impediments and restrict them to more local markets only hurts the majority who purchase these tools, crops or whatever.

I would bet that by far the vast majority of players are purchasers of all these types of things and have little interest in providing them under any circumstances. I see this whole thread as just protectionism of crafter output with only adjustments to distribute it to more of them at the expense of the common player who will just be inconvenienced by these restrictions. Fortunately I don't believe that all these new features suggested will ever be put into effect, so in the end it concerns me little.

You forgot a "=Ayes=" at the end of that

The main problems with non premiun player are:

1. They only can produce items that ql isnt important, most bulk items with long timers (try make a new free account to make 1k bricks or dig 1k dirt with your own crafted tools and skill capped at 20 )

2. Logistic even getting a buyer you cant move the item (same as before try to move 1k bricks or dirt, dragging a cart or in a rowboat) in the best case buyer would pick up them, worst case you die several times trying to move all the items.

some sort of trade post will work like players can put the bulk item there, buyer take the a selected amount (and/ql), put the money and get the stuff, then the money go directly to seller bank or remain until collected.

the main problem is, high skilled player can overflow this easily, and if limited to non prem, they can make alts to put items.

But some sort of local trade post every for example 500 tiles maybe can help to make small trades outside of "main towns/markets"