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Hordern

Allow Mayors to bash on their own deed before 21 Body Strength.

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Possibly just for Premium before they reach 21 BS, but I don't see why Free accounts couldn't have this either. The land has been paid for, and it would help avoid calling for a GM at those moments where a player is learning the ropes and makes a silly mistake by fencing themselves in. Also allows redesigns of the deed.

I don't forsee this allowing an increase in griefing like allowing free accounts to bash anywhere might as it's on deed only.

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I agree ...also, what about priests when mayors. :/

That's slightly different as mechanics don't prevent them from bashing, only the threat of lost faith. I free'd a new player who'd got stuck in a mine behind a wall with my mag priest once. Lost a couple of faith, but... *shrug*

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Anyone who has the privilege to own a deed, as well as the privilege of paying Code Club cash to maintain it, should have all basic maintenance abilities on their own deed. This includes destroying unwanted structures, as well as things like branding animals. This does not need to extend to villagers or off deed. (it can, but it does not need to, as much as for the Mayor.)


Edited by Brash_Endeavors
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Should make it quicker to bash fences while you're at it... not a clue why a high quality maul on a high end character sometimes need 10-15 bashes on their own deed. make it two, tops. for any character.


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I'd even go further and just have it one hit, it's a 30 second timer, mistakes can be easily corrected, like guard towers, they collapse after one hit on deed


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I'd even go further and just have it one hit, it's a 30 second timer, mistakes can be easily corrected, like guard towers, they collapse after one hit on deed

Maybe 2 hits. Just in case. Would be much better then now. Every wall/fence/building should take 50 damage per hit. (Althought, now if i start to think about that would be a easy abuse for reparing skill - althought no idea why, as you could hit and repair. hit and repair. ) So 1 hit should be good. Same for minedoors and such? (Pvp servers should be different on this one tho)

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Last time this came up I was opposed and I still am. Bashing is a premium ability and we devalue premium more each and every time the requirement is removed. If it does become possible for a non-prem on thier deed, it needs to be without the hefty damage bonus so that each and every hit is a reason to want to prem up.


 


But allowing premium mayors with less than 21 strength makes sense to me, since you can't grief yourself and that is why that threshold exists.


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Last time this came up I was opposed and I still am. Bashing is a premium ability and we devalue premium more each and every time the requirement is removed. If it does become possible for a non-prem on thier deed, it needs to be without the hefty damage bonus so that each and every hit is a reason to want to prem up.

 

But allowing premium mayors with less than 21 strength makes sense to me, since you can't grief yourself and that is why that threshold exists.

The point of having value for premium, is to encourage payment. So I agree with your point in general (I've always been on the side of a firm 'NO' when people suggest riding horses, bashing off deed suff, commanding large carts and sailing faster boats etc should be possible at 20 skill). However, for a mayor on deed, they are already paying for the land. IMO the upkeep payment (at minimum this is 10% of premium cost if buying premium with silver) is at a similar level of value to allowing that player to bash only on their deed without buying Premium.

While I also see the other side of that argument: upkeep is the cost of having a deed and the security and permissions that go with it, not for premium abilities, I would also suggest that having the ability to remove fences and walls from your own land is something that should be fundamental to a deeds permissions.

 

So I guess I'm suggesting that it should be added to the 'deed payment and upkeep' value rather than the 'Premium' value.

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I agree, Hordem. This restriction was fine until it was deemed that you no longer had to be premium to own a deed. If CC is going to sell deeds to non-premiums, non-premiums should have the full power to maintain their deeds. But only on their own deeds.


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+1 for lowering requirements


+1 for making it quicker / easier


 


only on own deed for mayor.


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On their own deed for mayor, but also for other deeds if the deed roles on the other deed permits it. 


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-1 don't see why you would own a deed and not be prem outside of an alt deed holder.


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-1 don't see why you would own a deed and not be prem outside of an alt deed holder.

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Alt deed holder is exactly why. I own two deeds. Halcyon Heights and Halcyon Interchange. My main has the deed for Halcyon Heights and is most of my work but I have a no playing alt own interchange. As a result I will never be able to bash the walls on Halcyon Interchange without a catapult (unless this thread works) because not only am I not a paying premium on that alt but he does not have 21str either. I know many people who have multiple deeds in multiple areas. Often happens as an area matures and the older ones leave and the die hards take up more and more land. 


 


Even with my Interchange deed. When the new wierd shaped deeds came in. We disbanded the one next to us and stretched the deed to cover over it and then some so the stuff we cared about was all on deed and woudlnt decay.  (No 10 tiles of perimiter in between that could be griefed with the deed it or loose it mentality with no longer having protected enclosures.) as a resuilt we deeded under quite a bit of left over fence junk from previous owners and as a result we have a hodge podge of crud fences that cant be bashed by the mayor and wont decay on their own. Have to catapult them someday when we get around to working on that area.


 


Personally I think Mayor's should have all 'sandbox' abilities like bashing fences, destroying buildings, etc., built in regardless of whether or not they are pay.  LIke its said. Thats what the upkeep is for. Its gaurenteed income so long as the mayor is the mayor.  One could argue that some will not deed certain areas because the fences are too high ql and couldnt be bashed and would take forever or be not possible with a catapult. (too close to water, too high an angle, etc) Where as with these features some could be encouraged to buy a deed to steam roll an area even if they undeed it cc still gets the cash from the deed itself plus I think its 5 minimum from deed upkeep. Where as not having these options the messy areas would go undeeded for even longer until things eventually decayed. And that could take a year or more depending on QL.


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That's slightly different as mechanics don't prevent them from bashing, only the threat of lost faith. I free'd a new player who'd got stuck in a mine behind a wall with my mag priest once. Lost a couple of faith, but... *shrug*

"The threat of lost faith" is a horrific one when a single action takes several days to recover from.  Especially if your priest is your main :P

+1 for this though, even if we priests are screwed over again.

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The priest issue isn't quite related mechanically but raises the same specter of "limited for no good reason" if that is the case here. I very much want to turn my main into a priest, but I don't want to have to give up building and maintaining my deed. If we're going to go the route of "Paying for a deed entitles the owner to use the deed fully" I'd like very much for priest mayors to be able to dig, chop, mine, plan, continue, bash etc etc with no major penalty on thier own deed.


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I would appreciate this suggestion very much, since I have a few deeds with alt mayors. Under the current system I have brought most of them up to 21 body strength while they were premium for the express purpose of bashing fences, etc. on deed tiles. I guess it is an advantage for game income that they must be premium to do so but of course I would prefer otherwise, as well as not needing to spend the time to raise them up to 21 body strength.


 


Anyway, I agree that since these alts are the mayor of those deeds, they should have the ability to bash these types of things down in 1 or 2 hits. Even if they had to premium up to do so it would at least avoid needed body strength requirements and many 30 sec timers to destroy things. Hopefully this will be modified as suggested here.


 


=Ayes=


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The priest issue isn't quite related mechanically but raises the same specter of "limited for no good reason" if that is the case here. I very much want to turn my main into a priest, but I don't want to have to give up building and maintaining my deed. If we're going to go the route of "Paying for a deed entitles the owner to use the deed fully" I'd like very much for priest mayors to be able to dig, chop, mine, plan, continue, bash etc etc with no major penalty on thier own deed.

And if this were allowed, everyone with a main and priest wou consider just playing the priest and dropping the main. Bad for business.

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The priest issue isn't quite related mechanically but raises the same specter of "limited for no good reason" if that is the case here. I very much want to turn my main into a priest, but I don't want to have to give up building and maintaining my deed. If we're going to go the route of "Paying for a deed entitles the owner to use the deed fully" I'd like very much for priest mayors to be able to dig, chop, mine, plan, continue, bash etc etc with no major penalty on thier own deed.

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On that issue, timers, I'm in the camp that thinks all the on deed bashing by friendlies needs to be fast. Mayors, citizens...even allies, should be able to smash down walls quickly if the permissions have been set so they can. I remember right afte rI came back I went to help another neighbor in the alliance knock down fences. With a 90ql maul I was doing less than 5dmg/minute.


 


Possibly another way around this original problem can be solved the same way for both the newbies we'd like to help and all the players that really just want expanded functionality for the deedholding alts. If any premium ally can come smash the wall down, many won't need for nonprem's to be able to do it.


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