Ebonaura Kingdom cannot champ due to Black Legion taking its champ slots

[Puertorro 371]

Just found out that our kingdom champ slots and Black Legion's are shared slots.  Apparently Enki is aware of this problem and it is part of game mechanics but it is completely unfair for Ebonaura as well as Black Legion and any other PMK that might emerge.  Every other PMK on Chaos is allowed to have 3 per kingdom template so why are Black Lighters being held to another standard.  If it is a bug please fix and if it is not please make it the same as the White Light kingdoms.

 

Edit: corrected kingdom - template.  Reasoning is still there;  Black Lighters only have one template while White Lighters have three.  Do the math, BL = 3 champs/WL = 9 champs.

Edited November 27, 2014 by Puertorro

[Redd 4,281]

Seems fair to me.

[MrGARY 12,421]

 Every other PMK on Chaos is allowed to have 3 per kingdom so why are Black Lighters being held to another standard.  If it is a bug please fix and if it is not please make it the same as the White Light kingdoms.

[Puertorro 371]

This is not correct at all.  It is 3 capped per god template (Mag, Vyn/Fo, and Lib), and in fact the first ever issue of this was with MR base kingdom and MR template pmk on Epic

[Horsch 151]

I stand corrected.  3 per template.  However, White lighters have 3 templates to pick from.  So if you do the math its still a big disadvantage.

[Fooligun 591]

Atm its very bad, with 3 kingdoms of BL on Chaos, unless you negotiate 1 spot per kingdom, you are pretty much doomed.

[Puertorro 371]

Please move thread to suggestions.  Log of support ticket follows:

 

[23:34:46] <Logi> Hello, GM responding to your support call 31784.

[23:35:01] <Puertorro> hey there

[23:35:15] <Puertorro> I believe this one has to go all the way up to enki

[23:37:25] <Logi> Why?

[23:37:54] <Puertorro> I was told that apparently its intended to be this way

[23:38:14] <Puertorro> 3 per tamplate

[23:38:24] <Logi> Champions you mean, instead of priests as you state in your ticket?

[23:38:29] <Puertorro> but BL PMK's share the same template

[23:38:43] <Puertorro> oh damn, I put priest

[23:38:54] <Puertorro> yeah meant champ

[23:39:47] <Logi> Sadly, this is a game feature, and nothing we as GM can do anything about. I would suggest raising the issue on the suggestion boards, arguing what benefits it will bring to the game.

[23:40:35] <Puertorro> did that as well.  Can you bring it up to Enki though.  ATM theres 3 BL kingdoms sharing 3 champ spots

[23:40:48] <Puertorro> that makes 9 WL champs vs 3 BL champs

[23:41:32] <Logi> I do not see the necessity in bringing it up to Enki, as he is not a developer, but a GM too.

[23:42:05] <Puertorro> ok fair enough.  can you make a note for the devs then please

[23:42:20] <Puertorro> as this is a valid point of unbalance

[23:42:46] <Puertorro> also can I use this convo to further support the thread?

[23:44:16] <Logi> Yes, you may.

[23:44:22] <Puertorro> tyvm

[23:44:38] <Logi> Happy wurming!

[Redd 4,281]

2 WL templates, just a FYI.

Maybe it's time to split BL into multiple faiths rather then having 1 juggernaut priest?

[MrGARY 12,421]

I stand corrected.  3 per template.  However, White lighters have 3 templates to pick from.  So if you do the math its still a big disadvantage.

 

Not really, it's 2 temples because vyn and fo are combined.  If you do the math, it's still 3 per enemy template, considering that wl doesn't mean ally with other wl template, they are just as much enemy as some bl template

[Puertorro 371]

Not really, it's 2 temples because vyn and fo are combined.  If you do the math, it's still 3 per enemy template, considering that wl doesn't mean ally with other wl template, they are just as much enemy as some bl template

 

Still, JK and MR have a different template, thus allowing them to have 3 per kingdom putting BL at a disadvantage.  Honestly im all for making it 3 per kingdom than per template.  it doesn't hurt anyone and allows more toons to be able to be PVP elites.

[MrGARY 12,421]

Still, JK and MR have a different template, thus allowing them to have 3 per kingdom putting BL at a disadvantage.  Honestly im all for making it 3 per kingdom than per template.  it doesn't hurt anyone and allows more toons to be able to be PVP elites.

 

How... is it a disadvantage to BL?  MR and JK are not allied... they are just as much as enemy as BL are to either of them...  They can't even champ the same gods

[Bloodscythe 2,225]

it seems that the champ slots were prior to PMK's  thusly each kingdom having 3 slots.   yet things have changed now where base kingdoms of MR and JK aren't being used in favor of PMK format..a new format.  so now what we have is a JK PMK with 3 champ slots, an MR PMK with 3 champ slots and instead of BL and Ebonaura PMKS having 3 slots as well, they are forced to share not only slots with each other but the base HOTS as well.  This is the highly inbalanced issued.  so what we have now instead of 3 kingdoms with 3 equal champ slots are 2 white light PMKs with  6 champs total and 2 black light PMKS with 3 slots total..that is also further divided with HOTS as well. should be 2 WL pmks with 3 slots each, 2 BL pmks with 3 slots each.

[MrGARY 12,421]

it seems that the champ slots were prior to PMK's  thusly each kingdom having 3 slots.   yet things have changed now where base kingdoms of MR and JK aren't being used in favor of PMK format..a new format.  so now what we have is a JK PMK with 3 champ slots, an MR PMK with 3 champ slots and instead of BL and Ebonaura PMKS having 3 slots as well, they are forced to share not only slots with each other but the base HOTS as well.  This is the highly inbalanced issued.  so what we have now instead of 3 kingdoms with 3 equal champ slots are 2 white light PMKs with  6 champs total and 2 black light PMKS with 3 slots total..that is also further divided with HOTS as well. should be 2 WL pmks with 3 slots each, 2 BL pmks with 3 slots each.

 

And then you remember Epic has base kingdoms and pmks as well so the issue still remains for WL as well

 

But seriously, the WL vs BL thing has to go, it's not even close to that considering they are enemy kingdoms

[Bloodscythe 2,225]

And then you remember Epic has base kingdoms and pmks as well so the issue still remains for WL as well

 

But seriously, the WL vs BL thing has to go, it's not even close to that considering they are enemy kingdoms

you are right, i tried to explain my thoughts not in a bl vs wl battle..cause in WL they are enemies of each other as well.  it's just hard to explain otherwise without going back to the whys n whats to articulate how this is a problem.  for sure you have the same problems on epic on the WL side

[TraderJoe 5]

And then you remember Epic has base kingdoms and pmks as well so the issue still remains for WL as well

 

But seriously, the WL vs BL thing has to go, it's not even close to that considering they are enemy kingdoms

 

This really has nothing at all to do with WL vs BL, or math for that matter.

 

Its quite obvious as to how Wurm has grown with time that problems like this arise simply due to changes made to the game such as the whole PMK allowed to be made but no real thought process going through all that would be affected. This is how wurm has been played for as long as i can remember, when an issue like this ends up seeing light it is because it has reached a point where there is clearly an imbalance.

 

The Issue at hand is not that WL have 6 champs, because WL should not be looked at as a whole, since they are actually at war with each other one believing in following Vyn and Fo while the other believing in Mag.(I am trying to be nice about it and make the war about lore regardless if the real reason is that each side believes the other side should die a horrible death IRL). So being that 2 kingdoms who happen to be WL are able to have 3 champs each because of the god they each follow while 3 BL kingdoms have to share 3 slots TOTAL.  As of right now that is very much an imbalance between kingdoms, not to mention what happens if another real WL PMK were to be made... Lets say hypothetically speaking if half or JK or MR were to split up for whatever reason, and a new kingdom was made, now there are 3 or even 4 WL kingdoms now sharing 3 champ slots as well. 

 

Now some of you will try and make the argument that well you can kill a champ 3 times and then take the slot for yourself... Well that would be a pretty extremely hard thing to do as its about pure advantage. Fact is Champ slots should meant to be an ability all Kingdoms should have their own slots in. It does not need more GODs to follow, we just need to have a real balanced format which gives every single opportunity to each and every single PMK that is tried to succeed in the lands of chaos.

[SmeJack 5,796]

I think people are failing to see that more WL PMKs will run into exactly the same thing, its got nothing to do be BL being at a disadvantage due to game mechanics, its a disadvantage due to multiple PMKS. If people drop MR or JK PMKs they will have exactly the same deal.

[Zekezor 3,188]

What could happend if there is no limits?

Tons of PMK's who are practically the same kingdom, but technically not.... Each with 3 champs slots.

I think the devs intentions were to limit one side of getting lets say 9 champs in a group and wreck faces.

However there is no good way of "removing" champs unwilling to let go of their lifes.

"Lol just kill them"... No, they can just chill in safety for a half year or just not log on at all, its not that simple.

 

But just in general I'd say its a pretty poorly designed system with minimal thinking.

 

3 templates. yet no alliances for same type templates... or kingdom alliances of any form by that matter.

2 of the templates worship the same gods... but for some reason only allow champs of a certain type for no obvious reason.

limited ammount of champions. yet unlimited ammount of kingdom titles.

PMKs on epic. yet 33% CR loss home servers for base kingdoms on epic and thus heavy drawbacks for pmks and residents on elevation.

Kingdom alliances on chaos. Yet all kingdoms are controlled by PMK kings who can remove any members they see fit... but only if they are online... ~_~

Territorial tower capturing. Yet large anti-tower-capping zones around deeds (which leads to wardeed spamming and very little tower capaping in general).

 

It's pretty darn obvious that there was no overall thinking put into it all, there is so many things obviously not matching with others.

 

 

But overall.... This isn't a server bug.

It's just poorly thought out mechanics for a game.

 

 

 

and dont even get me started on the valrei ###### where one template got twice as many gods/chance of winning. and another one is stuck being neighbour with a hostile entity more powerfull than itself.

Edited November 28, 2014 by Zekezor

[Puertorro 371]

Bump.  Come on devs work on this.

[sasquache 9]

Just another example of something that has been left broken and really needs to be fixed we all love the new content and obviously like this game but jesus start fixing old content this self serving crap of only adding things that affect the wallet of wurm will only end badly for wurm

[Hashirama 870]

Not really, it's 2 temples because vyn and fo are combined.  If you do the math, it's still 3 per enemy template, considering that wl doesn't mean ally with other wl template, they are just as much enemy as some bl template

I think no one told you, but all 3 BL kingdoms arent allied just like the WL kingdoms arent, the OP is suggesting 3 champs per kingdom of their respective template, not 3 champs per template.

Every kingdom having 3 champs of their own makes this a fair thing, because there is no alliance.

When new WL kingdom PMKs will form, the problem will persist, this is surely not intended, and has to be fixed asap, otherwise on chaos, freedom isles kingdom will have 9 champs, 3 of vyn,fo,mag each. And that way MR and JK will never get to use any champs on chaos, understand yet?

Edited November 30, 2014 by Hashirama

[Zekezor 3,188]

Vyn/fo has a shared champ pool.

iow 3 in total. not 6.

[Argustin 249]

This really has nothing at all to do with WL vs BL, or math for that matter.

 

Its quite obvious as to how Wurm has grown with time that problems like this arise simply due to changes made to the game such as the whole PMK allowed to be made but no real thought process going through all that would be affected. This is how wurm has been played for as long as i can remember, when an issue like this ends up seeing light it is because it has reached a point where there is clearly an imbalance.

 

The Issue at hand is not that WL have 6 champs, because WL should not be looked at as a whole, since they are actually at war with each other one believing in following Vyn and Fo while the other believing in Mag.(I am trying to be nice about it and make the war about lore regardless if the real reason is that each side believes the other side should die a horrible death IRL). So being that 2 kingdoms who happen to be WL are able to have 3 champs each because of the god they each follow while 3 BL kingdoms have to share 3 slots TOTAL.  As of right now that is very much an imbalance between kingdoms, not to mention what happens if another real WL PMK were to be made... Lets say hypothetically speaking if half or JK or MR were to split up for whatever reason, and a new kingdom was made, now there are 3 or even 4 WL kingdoms now sharing 3 champ slots as well. 

 

Now some of you will try and make the argument that well you can kill a champ 3 times and then take the slot for yourself... Well that would be a pretty extremely hard thing to do as its about pure advantage. Fact is Champ slots should meant to be an ability all Kingdoms should have their own slots in. It does not need more GODs to follow, we just need to have a real balanced format which gives every single opportunity to each and every single PMK that is tried to succeed in the lands of chaos.

Posting under 2 accounts is a good idea as you are also OP.

[Argustin 249]

I think no one told you, but all 3 BL kingdoms arent allied just like the WL kingdoms arent, the OP is suggesting 3 champs per kingdom of their respective template, not 3 champs per template.

Every kingdom having 3 champs of their own makes this a fair thing, because there is no alliance.

When new WL kingdom PMKs will form, the problem will persist, this is surely not intended, and has to be fixed asap, otherwise on chaos, freedom isles kingdom will have 9 champs, 3 of vyn,fo,mag each. And that way MR and JK will never get to use any champs on chaos, understand yet?

Well, you get 1g gold together make a PMK, get 3 champ slots - 3 chars with good casting, better stats and -60% damage. It could get abused very fast.

[RadioVoice 46]

Well, you get 1g gold together make a PMK, get 3 champ slots - 3 chars with good casting, better stats and -60% damage. It could get abused very fast.

This makes more sense than anything, it's very possible that 3 people would pay a measly sum of 33s to champ their character.

[Argustin 249]

And Hashi there is 3 templates - JK (Vyn/Fo), MR (Mag) and Bl (Libila). Meaning there is total of 9 champs. Jk gets 3 (Fo or Vyn), MR gets 3 Mag and BL gets 3 Lib. That is 6v3 (if we gl WL vs BL which this is not). If there would be more MR templates (that Abo..  - dont remember the PMK that was disbanded was) we would also have to choose and fight for the spots.