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Rolf

Feedback wanted from PlayerAuctions

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If Rolf wants some feedback go look down in town square, where so far 100 people are saying they won't use this site, while only 10 say they will,

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How in the world are they fear mongering

People want to skirt game systems. It's why sites like PA exist, right?  How does a service provider legitimize itself and verify it's sellers & buyers to protect from scams? It does this by requesting legit details of its userbase.  I don't understand how this isn't obvious, but 90% of the posts in this thread are people complaining about their lack of anonymity through registration.  That, mr gnome, is fear-mongering.

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they want to much info for me , i won't do business there , but i will with you rolf


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People want to skirt game systems. It's why sites like PA exist, right?  How does a service provider legitimize itself and verify it's sellers & buyers to protect from scams? It does this by requesting legit details of its userbase.  I don't understand how this isn't obvious, but 90% of the posts in this thread are people complaining about their lack of anonymity through registration.  That, mr gnome, is fear-mongering.

It is not fear mongering when people have legit reasons for not wanting to give their personal info to any website, I don't care if its this one or Wallmart, Paypal or Ebay, it gives you no right to come here and call people names and insult them if they are asked for their thoughts about the website and then they give it, they are in turn attacked in the manner in which you did so. That sir is uncalled for and deserves a ban if anything else that has been said here deserves one.

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Account signup and ordering was simple enough.


FYI Max password length seems to only be 16 characters when registering, although the password confirmation box allows for more.


 


Now for my comments, that I feel I am now "entitled to". :P


 


 


The only WurmOnline player transaction issues I am aware of, are with account and currency sells.


I can't see why anyone would use this service for items as that cuts into the sellers profits, or otherwise increases the cost of the item. (Which therefore would not be able to compete with any trade set up outside their service)


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, however it also only served to redirect your intent form me directly to a class of people

 


Let me put the whiskey down and retry my points here.


 


1.  Understandably, anonymity is important on the internet.  However, transactions that include sweat-equity items should involve some sort of verification of all parties involved out-of-game.  "PayPal verified" is a common requirement for <gameItem>:<realLifeCurrency> transaction - indicating the need for 3rd party verification.  This is why I feel people shouldn't have a problem with PlayerAuctions ( or similar services ) requiring the level of personal details that they do ( name, address, & phone number). 


 


The issue people seem to have with PA is that they service the blackmarket for other games. This is a legitimate concern if you look at the gaming space as a whole - but it doesn't apply to Wurm.  What it does bring to wurm, is an additional methodology to perform secure transactions.  How many avenues does a game company have for out-of-game transactions? None.


 


2. Watching the forums, people are outraged. Over what, I ask?  Sure, Rolf is getting a kick-back.  But what he's also gaining is an avenue to generate less headache due to his GM staff having to deal with up trades.  I feel the community responds poorly with their polls and general negativity, and feel it contributed nothing to the conversation.


 


I'm not a PA apologist, and I do not have a positive opinion of this approach.  However, I do understand the angle Rolf is coming from and can see how PA's verification system can be an enticing avenue to protect his player base and reduce staff load.


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I bought 2 gnomes and here is my feedback


 


I signed for the auctions way back when rolf announced it the first time.  I don't sell things in game but I wanted to keep it as an option to buy. 


 


Today when the gnomes were announced for sale I did decide to try and buy a few.  The website in general does seem a bit scary to navigate.  I was worried that they were only going to ask for my bank or credit card number.  I was happy to see paypal as an option since I trust that site.  When I checked out though it did send to a paypal sign in page that does not look like the normal paypal sign in page.  It did have my paypal information with my trusted and verified info on it so I think it was legit.  Afterwards I did open a new tab and go to my actual paypal account and I did notice they changed the layout of the paypal site itself and so I feel more comfortable with the transaction.   It does show the player auction transaction soooo....


 


it seems everything so far is fine.   I have still not received my gnomes but im sure I will get them when they verify my paypal. 


 


My personal opinion is that it was more work then buying something through the forums.  However I would never purchase a currency item where I had to pay real life money instead of in game coins on the forums either.   Thanks Sanrina 


Edited by Sanrina
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I tried to open an account and it wouldn't accept my phone number. My cell phone with Virgin mobile as my only phone.

 

I've always had Virgin Mobile, I love it ($25/mo unlimited data on my smartphone!). This is the first time that fact has marked me as too shady to be a customer =/

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Green gnome so shiny... So which GM handles deliveries?


Edited by Klaa

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Green gnome so shiny... So which GM handles deliveries?

Rolf

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just tried to buy some of the gold coins, had this form in my email:


 


1. a scanned copy or clear photo of this form,

2. a scanned copy of a government-issued identification document with your signature on it,

3. a clear photo of you holding your government-issued identification document, and

4. a recent utility billing statement. (Current or last month’s billing statement)

 

why? and whats a government-issued identification document? .... I'm from Belgium, I don't really care about USA laws ... I just want gold :P

 

 



Operation successful!



Current page will redirect after 2 seconds. If not, please click here.


 



Current Order Status: Buyer Cancelled

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3 Silver Offers purchased, 0 Silver Offers is claimed to be delivered.

 
Edited by Kwyzina
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Sell them in the shop and i will definitely buy a couple...


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why? and whats a government-issued identification document? .... I'm from Belgium, I don't really care about USA laws ... I just want gold :P

 

 

Driver's license, social security card, passport.  

 

Let's say the site's clean for a moment... I'd still not risk that kind of data where one good hack and it's all up for sale.

 

------------------------------------------------

Some gems from previous thread about this.  Consider this my final feedback on that site.

 

(PlayerAuctions)

Many years ago, another business within our governance was in the b2c space. An acquisition was made of a Korean RMT company called Itemmania, which operated on a c2c business model. Over a short period of time, the Korean c2c business grew and outstripped the b2c business.

 

For two reasons:

1) c2c had more user benefits than b2c. 

2) Game publishers in Korea had taken RMT to court in the country at the highest levels. The courts ruled in favor of gamers, thus voiding the game developer's TOS and EULA's.

 

 

(PlayerAuctions)

Our site does not encourage users to break terms and contractual obligations quite the contrary actually. It is a matter of real, and legal implications which, if you are interested I can share personally with you, not to argue of course, but if you are genuinely interested in the legal aspects which keep us in business, then I'd be happy to share.

 

(PlayerAuctions)

There is a risk of getting banned in those games, it's true. However the demand is there. People trade, even if PlayerAuctions existed or not, the would still trade. But having PA as an option to help protect against payment fraud, or item fraud... is a better option to go with if they are going to trade and assume the risk of banning.

 

One day, a gamer will get banned from a game publisher, and with the right means and resources, they will challenge the game publisher in court for their right to property. 

 

The fact of the matter is, you don't have to be banned. It is an unfair statute levied against consumers.

 

[Geez people get muted for that kind of talk.]  

 

(Rolf)

We don't earn anything from sales or recommending them. We need attention and activity on other sites though, and they have many users who may be interested in Wurm.

 

Rolf's supposedly not getting a comission from PA, Mahngiel.  Let's steer clear of that line for accuracy's sake.

Edited by Mordraug

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just tried to buy some of the gold coins, had this form in my email:

 

1. a scanned copy or clear photo of this form,

2. a scanned copy of a government-issued identification document with your signature on it,

3. a clear photo of you holding your government-issued identification document, and

4. a recent utility billing statement. (Current or last month’s billing statement)

 

why? and whats a government-issued identification document? .... I'm from Belgium, I don't really care about USA laws ... I just want gold :P

 

why?....I believe it has nothing to do with USA. PA thinks that by asking for all that personal information they mainly get buyers who are less likely to defraud them with chargebacks or payment disputes. For reference, I believe if you ask a PA rep in help chat/ help mail you can skip all those steps if you prepay to PA with bitcoin or western union. Quite simply, it's risk mitigation for them.

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Registration was quick and easy.  Payment for the gnomes was very straightforward and easy, with many payment options to choose.  I received the verification email and am looking forward to meeting my new little buddies.  Thanks Rolf.


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nvm the security of this site is around the level of wurm's dont really feel like having my identity stolen with the amount of info that they request...


 


This is a Wurm Online official promo offer intended to get you to try this website out! In order to get some of our players to try this site out for selling gold and accounts, we have created these offers for 100 silver (equalling one Wurm gold coin). It's a bit cheaper than in the official shop in order to reflect where third party prices may land. The coins will be delivered to the bank for characters on both the Epic and Freedom clusters.


 


why would people buy from this site when they can buy off forums for 20 euro cheaper


 


The Garden Gnomes invade this Christmas! Simply a nice decoration for your front porch or somewhere in the garden, this gnome will make your Wurm Christmas so much better! The hats even glow green in the dark! This is a promotional offer from the developers of Wurm Online in order to get our users to try this site out and give feedback. It will also be interesting to see what the actual interest is to buy these items. The gnome will be delivered via ingame mail both to the Epic and Freedom clusters. The offer is limited to 200 gnomes, and once this offer runs out these special type of gnomes will no longer be possible to receive ingame.


 


im speechless on this one just go to your own forums suggestions thread and actually look through it and there is alot of people who is literally saying that they would buy decorative items from(and i do have to use the bold , italic, underline) YOUR web shop meaning you would keep full absolute 97.8% pure profit


Edited by nosfirebird
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Had some trouble with my transaction initially, was waiting for sms code for validation that never came, clicked the link that said "Resend sms" took me straight back to the sign up page. Used live chat to contact them, They said it was possibly my browser, changed to firefox as instructed same thing happened again clicked "Resend sms" back to the start we go.


 


Contacted live chat once more they asked if it was okay to call me, I said sure and they did. I got my code but by now it wouldn't let me enter the sms confirmation code. It said I had tried to validate to many times (as I was instructed). Ughh.


 


Again back to live chat, was instructed to wait 24 hours for it to reset (which was kinda annoying at this point). So then I thought about it for a bit decided to reload one of the old validation pages from history, dumped the code they gave me in there and now the happy owner of ze gnomes. (If I had to wait 24 hours I probably wouldn't have bothered by now)


 


Defenitely could have been a lot smoother, in the end it did what it said just took the long road to get there.


 


Since then Gnomes have been delivered in game thanks Rolf.


Edited by Jet

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Hang on, Hang on. There seems to be two processes going on here. I, along with others, bought gnomes with very few issues. I was able to use mostly faked information and paypal so didn't have to reveal more than I'm comfortable in doing.


 


However those who are buying gold are talking about having to provide government provided ID info and utility bills??? Bugger that! Is this a requirement set by the seller, or an automatic thing when a transaction reaches a certain cost. I would never provide those details online. Name, address, official ID and a utility bill? That's an identify thief's dream combination!


 


My previous post said I was happy with the service but would only do it for items that are normally real money purchases like gold. If those items require the higher security then I would not buy. I've rather take my chances than hand over personal info. If PA is only good for small purchases, then I'd rather keep it in-game.


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Hang on, Hang on. There seems to be two processes going on here. I, along with others, bought gnomes with very few issues. I was able to use mostly faked information and paypal so didn't have to reveal more than I'm comfortable in doing.

 

However those who are buying gold are talking about having to provide government provided ID info and utility bills??? Bugger that! Is this a requirement set by the seller, or an automatic thing when a transaction reaches a certain cost. I would never provide those details online. Name, address, official ID and a utility bill? That's an identify thief's dream combination!

 

My previous post said I was happy with the service but would only do it for items that are normally real money purchases like gold. If those items require the higher security then I would not buy. I've rather take my chances than hand over personal info. If PA is only good for small purchases, then I'd rather keep it in-game.

 

As I understood, from reading their FAQs and reviews, those extra requirements are demanded of sellers, not buyers.

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So if im not mistaken all the extra info is because you are probably trying to use a form of payment that hasnt done a check on you already. Try using PayPal, since they already have all your info and guarantee the transactions. If there are issues with your phone number try contacting there customer service and have it delivered some other way. PayPal is one of the most secure forms of money transfers on the internet so if you don't already have it i would suggest looking into it.


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Am curious of if im suppose to confirm full delivery before or after i receive the item? I want to say after but i don't want to not click it and find out in a week i need to click it to have it delivered.


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Hey all, this will be an extensive post and I'm replying to quite a few of you. 

 

 

Seems these gnomes might be more rare than we think if no one buys any, lol

 

Very true. They are being offered in a limited amount, and people who end up purchasing will end up with a very rare item. 

 

We've been doing this since 2000, and over the years have found some interesting things happen in MMO spaces. Value inevitably is higher in commodities where rarity is strongest. Runescape is an example, with seemingly worthless items such as "Party Hats" end up being worth thousands of dollars to collectors, but also end up being items with "stored value" and symbols of in-game wealth. 

 

 

(1)So all they have are my email and phone. I don't get much spam on either so I'll be watching if there's any increase.

 

(2)However if Rolf is considering ditching the wurm shop and sending all purchases through this site I would object.

 

(1) We hate spam. Have you experienced an increase in spam rates since signing up?

 

(2) PA is meant to be a value added option, not a replacement for the forums. It's good to have choices. :)

 

I have enough problems getting Wurm time with paypal , dont need another place to make selling or buying stuff a larger pain.

 

This is one reason why Code Club was interested in working with us. We have long standing relationships with banks and payment processors which allow us certain benefits, that are now harder to acquire for E-Commerce businesses (especially if they deal in digital assets). 

Provided that your "online purchasing" history is "clean", and your payment methods aren't associated with any known fraud, you actually should have greater ease paying through PlayerAuctions :)

 

I got 2 but it was kind of a hassle, had to enter the same info 3 separate times, once for the website (I presume), once for verifying my card and once for the final payment. Also had to verify both my email and my cellphone (!?). I doubt I'll ever use the site for anything else, there are easier ways but mainly because they facilitate RWT on games that don't allow it. Very shady.

 

NESGamepro, the "card vetting" process is a one time occurrence. If you have successfully vetted that credit card, then you won't need to do it again for that card in the future.

 

 

People want to skirt game systems. It's why sites like PA exist, right?  How does a service provider legitimize itself and verify it's sellers & buyers to protect from scams? It does this by requesting legit details of its userbase.  I don't understand how this isn't obvious, but 90% of the posts in this thread are people complaining about their lack of anonymity through registration.  That, mr gnome, is fear-mongering.

 

Very much on point. 

 

How else can we protect buyer and sellers from scams if we don't verify them? I'm not really sure there is a way, and so a large amount of our resources go into due diligence as any business would. Unlike eBay where a buyer directly sends payment to the seller, PlayerAuctions is involved in the flow of money. 

 

This means, if a buyer commits payment fraud, it is our bank accounts that get affected by the chargeback (the seller is therefore insulated and protected from fraud). 

 

Take into additional account that there are no physical goods traded. This means, there is no Fed-ex, or postal tracking code, and there is no "signature on delivery". Therefore, in providing a service where we are not afforded "physical good trade" protections by banks, we have to go the extra mile to deter fraud.

 

All this, with the aim of creating a marketplace that is safe, and purpose built to handle digital asset exchange. 

My compliments to you sir, for a very sound post.

 

The only WurmOnline player transaction issues I am aware of, are with account and currency sells.

I can't see why anyone would use this service for items as that cuts into the sellers profits, or otherwise increases the cost of the item. (Which therefore would not be able to compete with any trade set up outside their service)

 

Thanks for the feedback Tuanta. I may be able to help you understand why PA isn't such a bad idea.

 

  1. Our banking relationships have been long established
  2. Our fraud deterrence makes the PA marketplace, one of the safest c2c markets around
  3. It is expensive and difficult to operate a c2c digital item marketplace. Blizzard charged 15% and Paypal charged another 15% for Diablo 3. That ends up being 30% compared to our 10%. 

At the end of the day, I think you end up getting a better deal with PA since our banking relationships and general safety of our marketplace allows us to keep fees low (way lower).

 

why?....I believe it has nothing to do with USA. PA thinks that by asking for all that personal information they mainly get buyers who are less likely to defraud them with chargebacks or payment disputes. For reference, I believe if you ask a PA rep in help chat/ help mail you can skip all those steps if you prepay to PA with bitcoin or western union. Quite simply, it's risk mitigation for them.

 

Quite right. The difficulty is always in the beginning. But if you manage to set up a PA profile in the beginning, and go through one successful order, then that generally means greater ease of use in the future since you've already completed a lot of our one-time occurrence fraud deterring processes. 

Edited by PlayerAuctions

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So if im not mistaken all the extra info is because you are probably trying to use a form of payment that hasnt done a check on you already. Try using PayPal, since they already have all your info and guarantee the transactions. If there are issues with your phone number try contacting there customer service and have it delivered some other way. PayPal is one of the most secure forms of money transfers on the internet so if you don't already have it i would suggest looking into it.

 

Exactly... I used paypal and the PA site never once asked for half that crap others have mentioned. I even tinkered around and had myself further setup as a seller.

 

Only things that needed to be verified were an email and a phone number, which was done in a minute.

 

Still its not like we HAVE to use PA, even if you dont want one of those... shiny new green gnomes... so green and shiny...

Edited by Klaa
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Am curious of if im suppose to confirm full delivery before or after i receive the item? I want to say after but i don't want to not click it and find out in a week i need to click it to have it delivered.

 

Click "confirm delivery" after you have received the item :-) 

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