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Rolf

Feedback wanted from PlayerAuctions

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I am trying to find some good in this to reach a middle ground with my dislike of this partnership and to agree somewhat with Rolf's explanation and then I see if you want to pay by money transfer here is where you do it...Hong Kong. Now, I am presented with a website that encourages the breaking of ToS and EULA agreements, endorcing gold/item farming, that you send your money directly to the heart of the country that this rampant practice is the most virally operated from and now I have a bigger red flag than I had before. This site is a marriage made in heaven for cheaters and exploiters when the overlords with the bank account reside here. This means, ultimately, that you are sending a massive amount of personal information to these same people who encourage and endorse these sly operations and give them a home to sell their wares. I just hope you people don't run into another kind of cheater/explioter that likes to become you to buy lots of shiny things under your accredation credentials. Good luck suing their business headquarters there for restitution should you fall prey to it.


 


InB4 the predjudism garbage: I do not suffer from Sinophobia nor do I hate Chinese/Asia people nor do I hate China itself.


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Even after an overwhelmingly negative response by the Wurm player base, numerous times throughout the forums...the Wurm community was once again ignored.


 


There are plenty of other games out there that I can play, and I dont have to feel like the creator is in bed with scum.


 


Feedback was already given in other threads, and it was ignored.


 


If this service was so perfect...players would not need to be "lured" with shiny trinkets, or special deals.


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Even after an overwhelmingly negative response by the Wurm player base, numerous times throughout the forums...the Wurm community was once again ignored.

 

There are plenty of other games out there that I can play, and I dont have to feel like the creator is in bed with scum.

 

Feedback was already given in other threads, and it was ignored.

 

He didn't ask for your opinion, he asked for feedback from people who used the service.

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Disapointed that i seen this after buying membership, had more faith in the game owner, and yes i can speak since i pay you your wages. will reconsider renewal.


 


dont know why you dont make your own gameshop/micro trans, in shock really, thought you was close to the community.


Edited by Tazinsky
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Are you one of those people that some companies pay to make some PR?

 

There's no PR here, just a simple lack of caring.  Call me morally bankrupt, but I don't care at all about what PA does and Rolf using them as an option. I understand what PA does, I don't necessarily like it, but the premise makes sense.

 

 

But I decided to give my opinion anyway

And this is the awful attitude of many on these forums: Entitled.

 

My statements stand.  If you have anything relative to add, that would be fantastic.

I've commented many times in this thread. This thread is for feedback from those who've used PA and general discussion and opinions are in the town square.
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We need to ask ourselves "What is the point in all this". Its pretty simple really. Because rolf wants(or maybe NEEDS) a cut out of the many thousands of trades that happen daily on the forums.

Currently the only money he makes from these transactions is when the silver is first sold, not when it changes hands.

With PA rolf will get a small cut of every trade, thus boosting his profit.

I understand the motives and they are totaly within the norm for a FOR-PROFIT company.

What I dont get is why could he not come out and just say that himself, or perhaps spend the time to write his own ingame auctionhouse, is beyond me.

Its not that I think PA is bad (witch I do) its that I think there are so many obviously better paths that could have been taken.

 

Edited by Steeloxide

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We need to ask ourselves "What is the point in all this". Its pretty simple really. Because rolf wants(or maybe NEEDS) a cut out of the many thousands of trades that happen daily on the forums.

Currently the only money he makes from these transactions is when the silver is first sold, not when it changes hands.

With PA rolf will get a small cut of every trade, thus boosting his profit.

I understand the motives and they are totaly within the norm for a FOR-PROFIT company.

What I dont get is why could he not come out and just say that himself, or perhaps spend the time to write his own ingame auctionhouse, is beyond me.

Its not that I think PA is bad (witch I do) its that I think there are so many obviously better paths that could have been taken.

 

Except it has nothing to do with Rolf profiting at all.

Rolf is not getting a cut(and I doubt he would seek one in any rmt trades).

 

For him it seems more about providing a secure way to do trades, a marketplace that will function well if wurms playerbase increases, along with some free advertisement.

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Except it has nothing to do with Rolf profiting at all.

Rolf is not getting a cut(and I doubt he would seek one in any rmt trades).

 

For him it seems more about providing a secure way to do trades, a marketplace that will function well if wurms playerbase increases, along with some free advertisement.

 

Get your logic out of this thread!

 

I admit, I was one of the first to call Rolf out for getting kick-backs. He has clarified that he receives none, and PA doesn't seem to offer this either.  So this is truly about providing an option for his players to use an established service with processes to attempt to verify individuals.  Regardless of what that site does beyond that is moot. 

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Whether PA is immoral or not is entirely subjective. As it's optional saying, it should be removed because you don’t like it, thus denying anyone else that chance to use it, is very self-centred.

 

Well subjective... they break ToS of other games, and that's a fact.

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Well subjective... they break ToS of other games, and that's a fact.

 

PlayerAuctions (and sites of their kin) break as many game ToS's as PirateBay (and sites of their kin) break copyrights

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Get your logic out of this thread!

 

It's totally illogical to follow the premise of the basis of that site and follow that premise with an induction that concludes these things could happen here. You will notice the conclusion was not deducted. :-) But then, inductive reasoning might just be entitlement because, unlike deductive reasoning, they allow for something less than absolute truth.

 

And entitlement is the fact of having a right to something. So you are entirely correct. We are indeed entitled to our opinions about this partnership affecting a game we paid into and invested in which leads to a parallel meaning of entitlement being the amount to which a person has a right. The negative posters have invested the minimum required amount to have full entitlement equal to yours whether we participate in this sale or not as we paid at least premium on at least one account. I do believe you are mistaking it for the inherent belief in some sort of inate special treatment regardless of rights acquired. The modus operandi of these forums is generally the third, granted, however in this case, we are indeed entitled to voice our concerns which by the way are not opinions as they are based in fact and not conjecture.

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i was worried about paypal too  way back in 2000  , but now omg. over 15k US $ spent through paypal in 14 yrs. about 10k on mmorpgs. and I think I read the info over 4k on wurm lol , love the game.


 


players auctions I have spent about 3k us$  on accounts and everquest plat.  and was protected once from account owner stealing back an 800$ ffx11 account 6 months after I bought it. they got me the money ,well credit .


 


but hey most don't want to use them. they rather trust in the forums ,which is good too.  but maybe one day you can make a wurm only secure trade site. and even mini transaction things like those gnomes I missed out on ;-(  I had 12 stolen on cele last spring. the GMs tried to help but no avail.  my mistake anyways. but i'd buy cosmetic things from the shop  if I could.


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Even after an overwhelmingly negative response by the Wurm player base, numerous times throughout the forums...the Wurm community was once again ignored.

 

There are plenty of other games out there that I can play, and I dont have to feel like the creator is in bed with scum.

 

Feedback was already given in other threads, and it was ignored.

 

If this service was so perfect...players would not need to be "lured" with shiny trinkets, or special deals.

Edited by PlayerAuctions
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What makes you think that I am some kind of spoke person for the Wurm community? Seriously, cut it out, I'm flattered that you may think that, but I don't

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The Wurm Community was not ignored, in fact, they spoke with their wallets, with all offers being sold out within 3 days. 

 

 Everyone plays to "win", not everyone pays to win

 

In all honesty, with the initial community reaction, I wasn't sure how it would work. But with everything being sold out within a few days, and receiving some good feedback from users internally

 

MR PA, The reason that these Gnomes were sold out within 3 days was because they were a limited edition offering of only 200 which could not be purchased anywhere else but on your website. On top of that it was structured badly as a draw and test of the desirability of your website in that anyone could purchase as many of them as they chose; thus, I would bet that the majority of them were purchased by a fewer number of players. A much better test would have been to limit them to one per account to then get a more accurate indication over time as to the willingness of a large number of the player base to be willing to do transactions on your website. A poor way to go about testing in this manner.

 

As for your comment that "everyone plays to win". I see no winning involved in "playing" Wurm. To me it is a much different game of creation and where the enjoyment comes from by participating within it. This is what makes Wurm much different than those other games who's ToS gamers violate by selling and purchasing their items upon your website. Certainly those with the mentality of winning or triumphing over others can take this same viewpoint of Wurm but the creative aspects of the game as a whole are not structured that way with winning in mind, as the mob slaying games do.

 

Probably the only way Wurm players distort this process of achievement is by purchasing other player accounts, although which condoned, nullify the time and effort put into reaching various skill levels to accomplish these creative activities within the game. I suppose in this way it could be considered pay to play to win by some; however, the real loss is to them in that they have not earned this advanced creative skill status by their efforts.

 

Anyway, as long as your website does not draw those types of players intent upon making money from it in some way by ignoring the accepted community standards of basic consideration for others and their efforts put forth to develop the environments within it, then I see little harm in their arrival, which in some instances could be a benefit to the community and game in general. Others who can not come shortly to realize that these lands transformed by care through others efforts deserve in turn their own respect and consideration, will certainly not receive a warm welcome here but rather the opposite.

 

This is why some of us protect our Wurm homelands with a possessive and watchful eye. Wurm is a more unusual "game" of *creation*, which it takes time for some to realize, with destruction not being welcome here (except on pvp servers for those of that mindset). For those ingrained with the concept of "winning", perhaps its faint reflections can be glimpsed as the gentle wind passes over the fields of corn, onward to points unknown within the looking glass. One has only to enter these lands and let time temper their ambitious nature into one more in harmony with what exists around them.

 

Happy Trails

=Ayes=

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MR PA, The reason that these Gnomes were sold out within 3 days was because they were a limited edition offering of only 200 which could not be purchased anywhere else but on your website. On top of that it was structured badly as a draw and test of the desirability of your website in that anyone could purchase as many of them as they chose; thus, I would bet that the majority of them were purchased by a fewer number of players. A much better test would have been to limit them to one per account to then get a more accurate indication over time as to the willingness of a large number of the player base to be willing to do transactions on your website. A poor way to go about testing in this manner.

 

As for your comment that "everyone plays to win". I see no winning involved in "playing" Wurm. To me it is a much different game of creation and where the enjoyment comes from by participating within it. This is what makes Wurm much different than those other games who's ToS gamers violate by selling and purchasing their items upon your website. Certainly those with the mentality of winning or triumphing over others can take this same viewpoint of Wurm but the creative aspects of the game as a whole are not structured that way with winning in mind, as the mob slaying games do.

 

Probably the only way Wurm players distort this process of achievement is by purchasing other player accounts, although which condoned, nullify the time and effort put into reaching various skill levels to accomplish these creative activities within the game. I suppose in this way it could be considered pay to play to win by some; however, the real loss is to them in that they have not earned this advanced creative skill status by their efforts.

 

Anyway, as long as your website does not draw those types of players intent upon making money from it in some way by ignoring the accepted community standards of basic consideration for others and their efforts put forth to develop the environments within it, then I see little harm in their arrival, which in some instances could be a benefit to the community and game in general. Others who can not come shortly to realize that these lands transformed by care through others efforts deserve in turn their own respect and consideration, will certainly not receive a warm welcome here but rather the opposite.

 

This is why some of us protect our Wurm homelands with a possessive and watchful eye. Wurm is a more unusual "game" of *creation*, which it takes time for some to realize, with destruction not being welcome here (except on pvp servers for those of that mindset). For those ingrained with the concept of "winning", perhaps its faint reflections can be glimpsed as the gentle wind passes over the fields of corn, onward to points unknown within the looking glass. One has only to enter these lands and let time temper their ambitious nature into one more in harmony with what exists around them.

 

Happy Trails

=Ayes=

Edited by PlayerAuctions

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Dear PlayerAuctions,

If you really love games, why do you choose do business that hurts players, the game itself and the studio and those who work at the studio by breaking the end user agreements?

sure selling in-game items and cash is legal in wurm. your other games actively try to stop people from selling in-game items and account. for example runescape bans players who buy and sell gold and in-game items. EVE will ban or put your account in debt for the amount of gold your brought or ban the account. EVE spam is horrific. if you've ever played it once you'll know that the spam from gold farmers is terrible and that is all because sites like your encourage it. you are breaking those games and breaking the EUA of them.  

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Why is everyone bashing PA while it's the game companies that love taking gamers money for virtual goods and leave them no option to get the money back if they ever decide to quit the game.

If car manufacturers would prohibit reselling their cars would you come down on the used cars black market as hard as you do with PA? I don't think so. It may be in the best interest of the gaming companies. But more import is what in the best interest of the customers.

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Why is everyone bashing PA while it's the game companies that love taking gamers money for virtual goods and leave them no option to get the money back if they ever decide to quit the game.

If car manufacturers would prohibit reselling their cars would you come down on the used cars black market as hard as you do with PA? I don't think so. It may be in the best interest of the gaming companies. But more import is what in the best interest of the customers.

 

Because most game players (not just in this game) see this site as an avenue for not only gold farmers but also for players to walk in all OP simply by handing over this weeks pay cheque (pay to win vs play to win).

 

On the 2nd part - Yet we need a thing called a drivers licence you can never own, it can be taken off you and is only valid in the state/country/region it was issued.

 

Also you can always get your money back if you think about it, tos etc are a joke for the most part and can only result in virtual punishment.

 

Also - Why would you want to get your cash back if you never spent any on the game in the first place?

 

Sub is not counted because your paying for access to someone's ideas and time on there servers in the game

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Please note that this thread was intended to gather actual player experiences with the service, and specifically those experiences directly related to Wurm Online.  If your post meets this criteria and has been hidden or removed please request its reinstatement via the proper channels.


 


Yes, Virginia, this means a thread cleaning is on the way....


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I been watching and reading this post for days and tell the truth... it makes me sick...

mods deleting post that do mater and are on topic tell the truth if it dont become a open post like it should be.. and player-auction keeps geting pushed ill be leaving wurm .... its not worth me handing that much info out to play wurm i can go else where and hand out far less and have same amount of fun...  and wurm has such promise ...sigh

 

sad to see ya even starting to think of getting in bed with this vipers..

 

ps yes i did look into them... not just no but hell no... i want no part of them...

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Thank you icbash,

 

When a post or thread topic is made for the sole purpose of soliciting feedback from players with ACTUAL real world experience with a new service or feature, then the moderators are tasked with trying to ensure that those experiences and feedback are not lost in the general intertron hurrdurr, so some posts might get hidden as off topic.  If you (or anyone) believes your post has merit in the discussion and fits the requirements of the initial request, please let someone on the staff know and we will put it back. 

 

In the OP Rolf specifically asked for reasons why players would or would not use the service, along with actual experience stories, and we have tried to preserve legitimate posts in this regard even though many of them seem to go quickly off the rails.  I am notoriously level headed so please let me know if I have misjudged a response.

 

Regards

~Tam

Edited by Farmerbob

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I won't be signing up now or ever.
 
1. Like Kadore said, I won't condone a site that allows for cheating in other games, no more then you would want to support macro'ers in Wurm.
 
2. You once again ask for our support, where is yours? 80e (4 prems) can greenlight on Steam to 19,000,000 gamers around the world. Steam DOES support separate login (so no not everyone would be forced to download and use steam) And NO steam is NOT full of nothing but 14 year olds. I didn't haul in 78,000e last month like you did and I have bills too. Maybe check your graph and fire that accountant? Accounts/servers/staff...you still live much better then I do.

 

 

3. I pay for my prem/deed by making items, selling and selling the silver to PAY YOU. Now you want me to pay another too?
 
4. "October 22, 2014 by Rolf


Ever since the beginning of Wurm we have allowed and even encouraged account, coin, and item sales because we never felt comfortable with the restrictions on that in other MMO’s. Playing those games we thought such restrictions limited us in a way that only benefited the game developers."

Your words, you encouraged this....so support us for a change. Advertise Wurm and I'll sign up for the next 40 websites you want.

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This is more feedback for Player Auctions, but your emails are starting to really annoy me. 


 


I keep getting mails coming through that essentially say "Something has happened. You need to log on to see what, and do something about it". A few days later "You still haven't done whatever it was you're meant to be doing, log on and do it".


 


I don't know the system. I don't know how to 'check the status'. I don't know what you want from me!


 


Automated mails are fine, as long as they make it clear what it is they're actually about. Right now they feel like harassment.


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Exactly how did you come to the conclusion that Code Club is receiving a cut? 

I wouldn't recommend making statements based on assumption. The Wurm Community is better than this, yea?

 

Mostly not tbh.

 

For what its worth though, I have sold thousands of dollars worth of transaction right here on the wurm forums and have never been screwed over in a sale once.

Edited by Youngsoldier

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