Anyone else notice about player auctions

[Calypsoi 111]

That that representative promissed he would start a thread to address the legal issues, yet still to this point has only dodged the questions and refuses to answer. The reason is their site promotes illegal activity, which is that not against the rules of Wurm Online to discuss illegal activities and link to sites that promote them?

[Zerocool 139]

He wasn't prepared for the unrealistic expectations of the wurm forum members or their demand for instant vindication.

[Alec 728]

You are going to get another:

 

"Locking this subject. I think more bashing is unnecessary and will only harm all of us. We'll see where this ends up."

[Dextrome 123]

 

is that not against the rules of Wurm Online to discuss illegal activities and link to sites that promote them?

Oh yes, the irony has not eluded me.  (Typical wurm double standards)

[Audrel 2,223]

"Locking this subject. I think more bashing is unnecessary and will only harm all of us. We'll see where this ends up."

 

I would hope my inflamed posts would be seen to want to protect us but I guess not.

[Mordraug 2,542]

Like hell.  Bashing is absolutely necessary in this case.

 

For example: your typical Runescape "hacked account", if you question the hacked person heavily enough, they generally end up admitting to some form of gold trading or account trading in which the magic happened.  Incidentally RMT is something Jagex has been viciously fighting for years.  It's strictly forbidden to even lend your account to a friend for a 10 minute sneak peek.

In other words, sites like that may, in fact, provide fraud protection among fraudsters.  But they also actively encourage ignoring games' rules and provide the means to do so, for a cut.  Had spent all my life without bothering to look at one of those sites as they are known to be the bottom of the trash pile.

 

People with experience botting: those sites.  People with scamming/actual hacking experience: those sites.  People with experience running multiple clients to flood raw materials' markets in games:  those sites.

 

Cue a game's OWNER deciding to advertise THERE.  I'm gonna stop here because the line of thought I'm on can only get me banned if I type it up.

 

Edit: I'll drop one last tidbit from my brain.  We should all feel insulted that Rolf considers that den of thieves and noobs more trustworthy than the people who've tolerated his faux-pas addiction over the years.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Mordraug

[Coastis 321]

Like hell.  Bashing is absolutely necessary in this case.

 

For example: your typical Runescape "hacked account", if you question the hacked person heavily enough, they generally end up admitting to some form of gold trading or account trading in which the magic happened.  Incidentally RMT is something Jagex has been viciously fighting for years.  It's strictly forbidden to even lend your account to a friend for a 10 minute sneak peek.

In other words, sites like that may, in fact, provide fraud protection among fraudsters.  But they also actively encourage ignoring games' rules and provide the means to do so, for a cut.  Had spent all my life without bothering to look at one of those sites as they are known to be the bottom of the trash pile.

 

People with experience botting: those sites.  People with scamming/actual hacking experience: those sites.  People with experience running multiple clients to flood raw materials' markets in games:  those sites.

 

Cue a game's OWNER deciding to advertise THERE.  I'm gonna stop here because the line of thought I'm on can only get me banned if I type it up.

 

Edit: I'll drop one last tidbit from my brain.  We should all feel insulted that Rolf considers that den of thieves and noobs more trustworthy than the people who've tolerated his faux-pas addiction over the years.

 

Well said, sir!

 

You have reached your quota of positive votes for the day

[Alec 728]

Edit: I'll drop one last tidbit from my brain.  We should all feel insulted that Rolf considers that den of thieves and noobs more trustworthy than the people who've tolerated his faux-pas addiction over the years.

 

 

This thread will get so deleted.

 

 

But like I said in the other thread Wurm tends to attract shady types of business.

[Delakar 277]

So is it a case of Rolf not adequately checking the site before recommending it, or being ok with recommending a site that enables/encourages illegal activity? 

 

Which of those scenarios is the more worrying? I'm not sure.

 

To that, consider part of his closing post from the thread in the City Hall:

 

 

 

Posting the macro sale is ridiculous and makes you look naive and not supporting Wurm at all so I don't know what you're doing in this conversation. You can't spot an obvious troll or someone with malicious intent against this game? I'd hope and expect you were on our side posting in this forum defending our player base and the game with the intent of helping it survive and grow.

 

He's calling us naive and not supporting Wurm, when someone points out a massive issue with a site he has himself recommended for our use.

 

We support Wurm constantly, by giving enough of a damn to play it and discuss it, right here. 

 

Ridiculing your customers is not a good customer retention strategy.

 

Quick, get bridges out to the live servers so that we forget all this rubbish and forgive the arrogance!

[Coastis 321]

So is it a case of Rolf not adequately checking the site before recommending it, or being ok with recommending a site that enables/encourages illegal activity? 

 

Which of those scenarios is the more worrying? I'm not sure.

 

To that, consider part of his closing post from the thread in the City Hall:

 

 

He's calling us naive and not supporting Wurm, when someone points out a massive issue with a site he has himself recommended for our use.

 

We support Wurm constantly, by giving enough of a damn to play it and discuss it, right here. 

 

Ridiculing your customers is not a good customer retention strategy.

 

Quick, get bridges out to the live servers so that we forget all this rubbish and forgive the arrogance!

 

+1

 

The sad part is rolf finds it easier to attack his own players than to admit his own failings, and that is the biggest problem wurm faces.

[Audrel 2,223]

<I snipped it all out but just so you know this is replied to you...>

 

That is exactly what I thought I was doing all along... protecting Wurm and its players but I guess not. I guess preferring that sites like this never heard of our obscure little game that I have a love-hate relationship with is harming us all.

[Alec 728]

He's calling us naive and not supporting Wurm, when someone points out a massive issue with a site he has himself recommended for our use.

 

We support Wurm constantly, by giving enough of a damn to play it and discuss it, right here. 

 

Ridiculing your customers is not a good customer retention strategy.

 

Quick, get bridges out to the live servers so that we forget all this rubbish and forgive the arrogance!

 

Heck, everyone went nuts when people like Audrel found out what kind of business they make, and then is the playerbase fault that we don't like shady sites.

 

Same with the Bashur drama, same with the reinforced tiles drama.

 

The playerbase is always wrong.

 

 

Oh, and the bitcoin mining thingy too.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Alec

[Calypsoi 111]

The guy tries to claim it is not illegal but keeps saying "I do not have time to go into it, you just do not know my industry".

 

Well guess what I am old, I was there when Markee Dragon lost over 300,000$ in one day because Paypal hit him for illegal account trading and emptied his account + fees. This was the reason Paypal/Ebay quit honoring chargebacks for digital goods delivered electronically. I am very familiar with the industry and its shady history.

[Brash_Endeavors 4,735]

nevermind, other than to agree with Mordraug & others. 

Edited October 24, 2014 by Brash_Endeavors

[MetalDragon 1,630]

Lmao its like survey premium all over again.

I never used that and I have trust in people on this forum anyway so likely won't use this either so it doesn't bother me.

[Lotus1 315]

What I really would like to see is a solid business plan for this game. Recommending people use sites like these does not fall under that category.

 

In another thread recently, Rolf seemed to indicate that he actually wants Wurm to grow. If a sound business plan can be put in place, then I don't see why Wurm can't grow. This project may be Rolf's "baby", but at the same time it would be helpful to realise that it's the customers that keep the game running. It's important to "stay true" to the customer base otherwise threads like this will arise.

 

To Rolf: You can grow the game, but resorting to sites like these for character transfers is not the solution. You're trying to fix something by adding complications and not simplifying things for the customer. If you want people to have a safer method of character transfers, provide a solution that's easier and not risky. If you really want to make it easier for the customer, perhaps create your own program for the transactions instead. Make it automatically change the password/email for the new owner upon the sale of the character. THAT would make it easier/safer.

Edited October 25, 2014 by Lotus1

[KanePT 699]

OK, i got to ask. Is this new?

Is this the first time Rolf went out on his daily walk, ate bad lunch and did something that anyone else would tell him its a freaking bad idea (except for the groupies, of course).

 

The damn site even looks to be a nice idea, kinda legit and all... Until you start seeing which games they sell stuff for. And then you know... Oops wrong turn.

 

What I really would like to see is a solid business plan for this game. Recommending people use sites like these does not fall under that category.

 

In another thread recently, Rolf seemed to indicate that he actually wants Wurm to grow. If a sound business plan can be put in place, then I don't see why Wurm can't grow. This project may be Rolf's "baby", but at the same time it would be helpful to realise that it's the customers that keep the game running. It's important to "stay true" to the customer base other threads like this will arise.

 

To Rolf: You can grow the game, but resorting to sites like these for character transfers is not the solution. You're trying to fix something by adding complications and not simplifying things for the customer. If you want people to have a safer method of character transfers, provide a solution that's easier and not risky. If you really want to make it easier for the customer, perhaps create your own program for the transactions instead. Make it automatically change the password/email for the new owner upon the sale of the character. THAT would make it easier/safer.

Shouldn't be too hard actually. Diablo 3 has something like this -a RMT shop, right? Maybe a similar system for Wurm.

[Mordraug 2,542]

What I really would like to see is a solid business plan for this game. Recommending people use sites like these does not fall under that category.

 

Could start by seeing and treating his customers as such.  We're customers, not employees, not his children.

 

We're PAYING customers here, we're not being done any favors.  If Wurm didn't need the money to remain operational, I'm sure we'd know by now (somehow.. servers being shut, game all PvP, something, but we'd know).

[Fairyshine 3,183]

If anything goes wrong and you are "refunded", you only get the amount you bid back in credit to spend on the site, you never get your actual money back.  That means, if the sale goes south, you are out of pocket any way.  Once you trade via this site, kiss your money good bye.  

 

How is this different from losing your money in a sale going south in wurm itself?  It is not different at all. You are out of pocket and won't see your money again.

 

If this site is selling illegal gaming mechanisms it is frequented by those who buy illegal gaming mechanisms and as such they will now be aware of wurm and start looking into how to make money out of this game too. 

If you as an honest customer then buy an account via this site, and the sale goes wrong, you will be forced to buy something else directly from the site as you will not get your money back, all you will get is credit to spend on the site (every time losing the 10% fees of course, so you credit immediately is only 90% of what you spent any way, not to mention the continual recycling of 'on site credit' puts 10% in their pockets right away...)

 

We do not own this game but from the amount of passion with which we defend the integrity of this game, there should be no doubt that we all love wurm and would like to see it succeed and grow.  Not only our money goes into this game, we also spend our time, which we can never get back, here.  We have our friends here.  Wurm is a special world we all want to preserve. Please reconsider listing wurm on that site.  

[Brash_Endeavors 4,735]

 If this site is selling illegal gaming mechanisms it is frequented by those who buy illegal gaming mechanisms and as such they will now be aware of wurm and start looking into how to make money out of this game too.  

 

This is what worries me. We are going to start attracting the sort of people who make a business out of profiting from games they do not even play, they instead trade buy and sell only in "virtual assets", who ignore rules and Eulas and even country laws, who make a fat living off of doing this and really don;t care about the health of the game other than how fast they can milk a profit from it. Thirdparty "powerlevelling" utilities that result in people getting accounts hacked and even more work for our GMs. So far Wurm has been lucky in not really attracting too  much the notice of these elements.  Now this is how we intend to promote the game? This reminds me of that scummy "surveys for free iron coins" promotion that just resulted in adding people to spam mailing lists, and people asking in gchat why they never actually got any iron coins doing it, just more spyware installed on their computers. Yes that was such great promotion for Wurm. 

 

I would much rather see the game promoting through stories & interviews at  Indie Gaming Magazine, sites like Sandboxer.org, news sites like Rock Paper Shotgun & PC Gamer (which we get occasional attention from now -- smaller sites too could be good).  Encourage players like 

McGarnicle who with his brother Faeran ran the Factional Fight youtube tutorials and the ServersAreDown.com Wurm-oriented website.   Wurm Online and its updates should be listed at IndieDB.  Rolf's  PR team should be looking for ways to get the word out through these smaller "cleaner" channels. I am glad to see the team is listing updates at a subreddit for Wurm even if traffic seems low.  It doesn't have to be paid advertising. But its going to attract a lot better element of player to the game. It will be slow growth, a very healthy growth, and the right kind of growth.

Edited October 25, 2014 by Brash_Endeavors

[Tissotx 217]

I forgot the name of that guy, thx Calypsoi, it was Markee Dragon

I remember seeing him on youtube some years ago, i just checked.

He still seems very active.

 

He is not a nice guy.

[Klaa 4,872]

Not being forced to use it. If one doesn't like it, don't use it.

Granted the site may be shady in the kind of transactions it allows and how's it's admins operate; however, it's not one I am familiar with offhand. Nor do I make RL living from in-game activities. At first glance it does look like a helpful site for transactions of virtual goods.

Now if we did have to use such a site, I'd be examining it with better care than a CSI team.

EDIT although... I really dislike gold farmers and the ensuing massive inflation.

Edited October 25, 2014 by Klaa

[Cerberus 247]

A good start on a business plan which would involve wearable items just for aesthetics on shop or from traders would greatly bolster Wurm Online income. Most of us are guilty of spending far to much money to have our characters look good in most games. It's a great source of income for nearly all MMO games.

[Lotus1 315]

A good start on a business plan which would involve wearable items just for aesthetics on shop or from traders would greatly bolster Wurm Online income. Most of us are guilty of spending far to much money to have our characters look good in most games. It's a great source of income for nearly all MMO games.

 

Agreed.

 

The other things I really think this game needs (going off topic a bit mind you):

 

1. Better promotion. Advertise! I'm sure he's done some advertising already, but it's all about how many people know about the game. Right now, hardly anyone knows about the game still. It's important to find out how to let as many people as possible know about the game.

 

2. A tutorial that actually teaches newbies what the game's about. Too often (and this happened even before you could just skip the tutorial entirely) I've seen people pass through the portal and ask the question "so what do I do in this game?" If people have to ask that question, then the tutorial is not doing its job. How many of those players at that point quit right after the tutorial that would enjoy the game if they knew more about what the game actually is?

 

Basically, for this game to grow, more people need to know about the game and the introduction of the game needs to captivate and retain more people.

[Brash_Endeavors 4,735]

A good start on a business plan which would involve wearable items just for aesthetics on shop or from traders would greatly bolster Wurm Online income. Most of us are guilty of spending far to much money to have our characters look good in most games. It's a great source of income for nearly all MMO games.

 

I'd still like player crafters to be at the center of a clothing industry (a lot of people want to be Cloth Tailors, just as valid a profession as weaponsmith) , but maybe gamestore/traders  can sell tabard / flag emblems for villages,  custom-bought hair styles + mirrors,  and 7-day premium tokens that you can send to friends to "come back and see the changes"  or use as payment to newbie workers.