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Player Auctions Costly

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Playerauctions messaged me directly in relation to this thread.

 

 

 

Sarajie,

I appreciated you comments in the thread, but I wanted to reach out personally to share some items with you that might be a bit too much for us to disclose publicly. 

While it seems like we are "shady" because we support other games, the truth is, the exact opposite is true. 

We have thought long and hard about the legal issues (and have 3 law firms that have actually supported us, and continually encourage us to go to court for pre-emptive actions because they fully agree that a win in the US as similar to what happened in Korea is plausible).

We have a position on the property rights of gamers. 
We have a position on the trademark and copyright rights as relates to virtual goods.
We have a position on the tortious interference clauses of contracts. 

Believe me we have thought long and hard about this. If you'd like to know more, I'd be happy to share with you personally. But it can't yet go public.

 

And this is one of the reasons the prices for gaming continue to rise.  Companies who have to defend themselves against litigation from those who dont think the rules, TOS, EULA etc apply to them.

These contracts are agreed to by each player, willingly.

 

So I wonder Rolf..which of your rules, TOS, or EULA this company will decide they no longer need to follow?  Further, what does it say about their own?

 

While they may believe that gamers have certain rights, so do content creators, developers and publishers.  And not just them, but their families, and dependents.  The mouths they feed, bills they pay.

 

At the end of the day, when I set my kids down, and speak to them about what is the right way to deal with others, and what is the wrong way...I can do so comfortable in the knowledge that I do so without hiding within grey areas.

 

Rolf has earned my respect and loyalty with the transactions and interactions Ive had with him personally.  He has been fair, and honest in every way.  If it were not for these interactions with him personally, I may be left to judge things by his associations.  I hope this is not a dark foreshadowing. 

 

Our moral compass should not be something we log out of, when we login to a game.

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I can say the forums are not the optimal situation to sell or auction items through out the game and hopefully you will consider doing something to handle auctioning and trading


with just items and silvers rather than passing it off to some 3rd party.


 


As far as real world money for items or accounts the players will choose what works best for them.


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I would never click on a gold farming/selling site in a game. I hope I did not get any keyloggers with my cookies visiting that recommended site.


 


It is places like these that contribute to detriment of online games. Hacked accounts, gold spamming, etc.


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The ethics of buying gold against the ToS is a personal decision, doesn't really matter.

 

 

(Any names used in this post are purely fictional and do not represent actual ingame people)

 

I buy my silver from LED!

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Woot power leveling and a medium for in game gold farmers comes to Wurm Online!


Shady is shady and its getting awfully dark.


 


Cheap shots aside, don't compromise guys.


I may just not be "in the know", but CodeClub's stance on character sells has functioned fine for how many years now?


It's simple, don't enter into trades with anyone you can't trust for anything you can't lose. I don't see a need for an "officially promoted" third party here.


 


But that's my personal opinion and I don't know what's going on behind the scenes.


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Woot power leveling and a medium for in game gold farmers comes to Wurm Online!

Shady is shady and its getting awfully dark.

 

 

lol, but yea what a shame to see wurm on a gold farmers website.

 

They certainly do not give 2 hoots about games eula.

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Assumption, that PayPal side of transaction will be more secured. How some third party can check and prove in game part of transaction? Logs and screenshots are not that hard to fake.

 

Somehow I do not see such transaction even little bit more secure than on this forum.

 

I agree fully, Zakerak. Right now we list on forums which I consider to be a first party site. Then we sell through a third party site, PayPal. If not buyer and seller are verified with PayPal, that is about as much indication of security you are going to get. If someone were to sell you items, you pay for them, then they abscond with the items and your payment, word would get around here fast and the seller would not be getting away with it. You are trading in game to a name that is set in the game pretty much in stone as I know of no way to change you name.

 

Now, enter a third party site that uses a fourth and maybe fifth party site, one of which was your previous third party site mind you, to charge you 10% + a fee to check the receipt. Part of your security is they use the Verified by PayPal assurance and they use a PayPal Business account that already has an no chargeback option for digital items.

 

Bottom line is you are paying someone 10% + fees to read your receipt for you. There no assurance that the Buyer receives the items then tell the website they haven't. Or they didn't come on time. The same holds true for the seller saying they delivered the items or that they never got paid when delivery was actually made and money actually received. The first step of security is the buyer and the seller. I don't care if Lords of London runs your auction, if you have a snake in the bushes, you have a snake in bushes.

Edited by Audrel

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lol, but yea what a shame to see wurm on a gold farmers website.

 

They certainly do not give 2 hoots about games eula.

 

Oh and just wait till all the free accounts pop up to spam our chat like they do in every other mmo...that'll be fun!

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This.

I found out. As delivery proof you need to take an ingame screenshot or video, while video is considered a stronger evidence.

Both are accepted though to prove you did your part.

Now to learn how to do that. I have no clue...

Anyone?

Ingame screenshot? So, not Screen Print? *confused look*

I mean, one thing is good, we now have an official confirmation that selling and buying game stuff is encouraged.

I like that! :)

 

Fraps will do both nicely.

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Personally I have used paypal transactions several times with no issues. Also, since I consider real life money more valuable than in game items, I normally deliver the goods before I expect payment of the invoice. Even though I just use that money to buy 2 month premium packages. It is just an option I offer to my customers. I have never once had an issue dealing this way.


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Well truth is a Wurm ingame auction system is currently far away and I don't see it linked to real money in the initial version because that's a real coding challenge. It may end up far down on the priorities list since there are solutions already.

 

Player Auctions and other sites like it represent a safe third party with money back guarantee which for instance Ebay does not support for virtual assets. When Wurm grows you may have to do business with people without the kind of seller reputation you can find in the forums today and we don't support seller reputations here. You will also attract and reach their other customers which eventually may mean higher prices for your goods. These sites will of course take comission and it's up to you to decide if you want to use them.

 

Sites like Player Auctions help by offering order and security in a Wild West situation when it comes to dealing with virtual assets. Virtualtrades is involved in such a website with customers interested in virtual economies just like Player Auctions. The sites don't break any laws as far as I know. I guess breaking a EULA or ToS may be criminal in some countries but to me as a developer it mainly means that I can safely keep people who break them away from those who play fair.

 

Hopefully more games will allow the sale of ingame assets like we do but for now we are where we are. This may help drive virtual economies and to me that means positive things like a greener planet and more jobs when robots take over.

 

If these types of sites understand our business model and give the game attention it's good because that might mean more players which means more developers and survivability. So to me it is a no-brainer to suggest you use them. 

 

It is only a recommendation though. You may of course go on trading in the forums as before. Just saying there may be benefits for everyone in the end and it would be an interesting development.

 

More players means more developers? How about take away the redistribution welfare system and hire another developer with that money!

Edited by Calypsoi

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*I wont ever be using them for Wurm, but will continue to for other games, as they have no better alternatives*


 


I would like to clear 1 thing up.


 


PlayerAuctions DOES NOT farm gold or powerlevel directly.


 


They are just a middleman, like eBay for virtual goods.


 


I'm not personally pleased about using them, but they have been 'acceptable' while dealing with my previous transactions. I did lose some money in failed transactions but that was quite infrequent.


I wouldn't send them ID photos like they asked either.


 


But I wouldn't say they are shady. Just lacking in customer service.


Edited by Outlaw

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I agree fully, Zakerak. Right now we list on forums which I consider to be a first party site. Then we sell through a third party site, PayPal. If not buyer and seller are verified with PayPal, that is about as much indication of security you are going to get. If someone were to sell you items, you pay for them, then they abscond with the items and your payment, word would get around here fast and the seller would not be getting away with it. You are trading in game to a name that is set in the game pretty much in stone as I know of no way to change you name.

 

Now, enter a third party site that uses a fourth and maybe fifth party site, one of which was your previous third party site mind you, to charge you 10% + a fee to check the receipt. Part of your security is they use the Verified by PayPal assurance and they use a PayPal Business account that already has an no chargeback option for digital items.

 

Bottom line is you are paying someone 10% + fees to read your receipt for you. There no assurance that the Buyer receives the items then tell the website they haven't. Or they didn't come on time. The same holds true for the seller saying they delivered the items or that they never got paid when delivery was actually made and money actually received. The first step of security is the buyer and the seller. I don't care if Lords of London runs your auction, if you have a snake in the bushes, you have a snake in bushes.

 

 

 

Snakes?  Where?? 

Tracking increased by 0.001 ...

 

shingw19.jpg

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*I wont ever be using them for Wurm, but will continue to for other games, as they have no better alternatives*

 

I would like to clear 1 thing up.

 

PlayerAuctions DOES NOT farm gold or powerlevel directly.

 

They are just a middleman, like eBay for virtual goods.

 

I'm not personally pleased about using them, but they have been 'acceptable' while dealing with my previous transactions. I did lose some money in failed transactions but that was quite infrequent.

I wouldn't send them ID photos like they asked either.

 

But I wouldn't say they are shady. Just lacking in customer service.

If I open a shop in the real world...that deals in stolen televisions, even if I didnt steal them personally..am I not still facilitating the exchange of stolen goods?

What if I also sell radios...that are not stolen...will you trust me?

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Snakes?  Where?? 

Tracking increased by 0.001 ...

 

 

 

The Venerable Anaconda targets your lower portions.

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Didnt take long for the WURM rules to be discarded...they are already selling macros for wurm...

 

http://www.playerauctions.com/offer/introductory-wurm-macros-offer-101940191/

 

From the WURM rules:

 

Macroing 
Definition:
A / Macroing is the use of a program that automatically repeats actions for you, this is a game unbalancing activity and as such is not permitted. Accounts using macros are dealt with very harshly.

Edited by saraie

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Just came upon the macro offer from the website, I ask myself is this really a great place to associate Wurm with?

 

-Moderation Edit-

 

Keep in mind this is the only offer I could find on the site for Wurm, no coins, accounts, deeds, etc. 

 

Since I posted this a note has been added to that add;

 

Note:
 

-Moderation Edit-

Edited by Shrimpiie
Removed details of macro.
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Well at least it's an intelligent poster on the site. If anything it has not enhanced Rolf or his company in the eyes of the wurm community, but they surely didn't need PR like this did they? A company they have endorsed one would assume for a % of the profits is now selling tools that will get the buyer banned from wurm. WOW


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I saw that Playerauctions had become an affiliate of Wurm, and was offering my personal in-sight of how I have used it and what it is good for, as people were sceptical.

 

Don't know why I bother when there are idiots like you around.

 

 

The door is that way >>>

Cya o/

 

:D

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Just came upon the macro offer from the website, I ask myself is this really a great place to associate Wurm with?

 

-Moderation Edit-

 

Keep in mind this is the only offer I could find on the site for Wurm, no coins, accounts, deeds, etc. 

 

Since I posted this a note has been added to that add;

 

Note:

 

-Moderation Edit-

 

 

This for sale offer has already been removed, as will other bot/macro scripts.

Edited by Shrimpiie
Removed details of macro from quote.
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This for sale offer has already been removed, as will other bot/macro scripts.

 

You are gonna have a hard time winning over this bunch I can tell you that much. ;)

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This for sale offer has already been removed, as will other bot/macro scripts.

Really?  Are you going to ALSO remove the content you are offering for other MMOS against their TOS?...or is that just something special for WURM?  And how long will that last?

Edited by saraie

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