There are apparently no coins in the coffers at the moment.

[Kegan 3,926]

Well i went to sell my corpses to my token tonight on Xanadu and i got the message..

 

[22:53:24] There are apparently no coins in the coffers at the moment.

 

So are you telling me that the starting traders are paying 8s a day and the token sales pool is empty? How is that even possible? Maybe on Xanadu there should be more token funds and less trader pool money. 

 

Is there anyone that does this on a regular bases and does it run out like that a lot?  I know there is probably more players selling stuff and getting the new rare coins but still i can not see that much being done. 

Edited October 21, 2014 by Kegan

[Othob Rithol 700]

Seems that pile of Gold was removed.

 

From his wording, I've suspected that both sell-to-token and the new rare coins are subordinate to Trader distributions. To that I mean there has to be a certain minimum amount in the coffers before these two mechanisms work, but traders are not limited in the same way.

 

If I am correct, the system needs to be fixed. He should decide what % of the funds are to go through each mechanism and give them each their own pool. When one starts to accumulate excess, he can adjust his figures or move money around.

[Kegan 3,926]

Well i can see the smaller amount needed on the old server with the personal traders in place but on Xanadu they don't need as many coins in the trader pool so more should go to the sell feature..imo

Edited October 21, 2014 by Kegan

[Bloodscythe 2,225]

traders should just be disabled..turn traders into auction houses..and sell auctioneer representatives for lik e15 or 20s ...then have kindgome coffers divided into a premium player pool of funds and non premium player pool of funds..

 

few  things happen here..broken trader system..done with., new method of trade and new coind for rolf for auction house reps.  as well as a more fair money distribution that non prem alts can't spam

 

 

auction house acts as wharehous of all bought n sold goods..you bring your goods to auction house to sell or go to auction hous to by..acution house gets a percentage just like merchants do

 

still have option to private trade bulk n tools n weapons..or use merchants..acution house more a wharehouse bulk goods sale place n place to get kingdom goods.  to me this idea seems a win for all including rolf wiht more money in his pocket as well as players.  and equalizes exploit

Edited October 21, 2014 by Greasygrundle

[Kagrenac 812]

[22:53:24] There are apparently no coins in the coffers at the moment.

 

So are you telling me that the starting traders are paying 8s a day and the token sales pool is empty? How is that even possible? Maybe on Xanadu there should be more token funds and less trader pool money. 

 

Is there anyone that does this on a regular bases and does it run out like that a lot?  I know there is probably more players selling stuff and getting the new rare coins but still i can not see that much being done. 

That is called Rolf making a new rare coin system (which draws from the same pool)

I seriously doubt the starting traders are still making 8s a day, especially since their ratios are probably awful.

[Sklo:D 2,210]

That is called Rolf making a new rare coin system (which draws from the same pool)

I seriously doubt the starting traders are still making 8s a day, especially since their ratios are probably awful.

lots of people keep buying deeds of them and don't drain back the money, ratio must be great.

[Heboric 808]

lots of people keep buying deeds of them and don't drain back the money, ratio must be great.

 

I doubt that - why would anyone buy a settlement form when you can make a deed stake for nothing (and get one in the noobie package as well)?

[Cista 428]

Kegan, you are forgetting the massive amount of money is given out as random rare coins now.

 

When my friend got 7+ silver the day before you mention (she stopped counting at 8+ silver) I posted on the other thread saying something serious is going on here, but I was ridiculed.

 

Just imagine if 1000 players find on average just 1 silver each per day this way, that would be 300 gold given out by Rolf per month through this system. 

 

So it doesn't surprise me if the coffer is now drained, because surely Rolf is not giving out that kind of gold per month.

Edited October 21, 2014 by Cista

[GoldFever 299]

Here are some real Xan NPC trader get info numbers for you all to mull over since what I believe to be incorrect numbers are being tossed around.  This is all from the same trader.  (Not location, trader.  4 per location.)

 

E =  Earned

S = Spent

R = Ratio

 

You read it silver, copper, iron.  3 57 97 is 3 silver, 57 copper, 97 iron.  The net amount the trader gave out is the Spent minus the Earned.  I think a major purchase could muck that up, but the numbers don't indicate any of that so should be good.  In other words, this one trader for the month of September handed out at least 53 silver (probably more like 60s or 2s per day or 8 silver per day per location if they all the same) but nothing since October 13. 

 

 

August 13       E = 3 57 97; S = 10 05 72; R = 0.36

August 15       E = 6 03 29; S = 12 51 44; R = 0.48

August 24       E = 7 94 51; S = 18 89 20; R = 0.42

August 30       E = 0 00 05; S = 00 20 72; R = 0.002

September 4   E = 3 08 75; S = 06 23 68; R = 0.495

September 22 E = 7 90 43; S = 60 74 91; R = 0.13

September 29 E = 5 34 16; S = 11 85 55; R = 0.45

October 8        E = 5 34 21; S = 20 53 46; R = 0.26

October 13      E = 5 35 71; S = 26 82 07; R = 0.19

October 19      E = 5 36 21; S = 26 82 13; R = 0.19

 

Sorry I can't add tonight's.  I misclicked and blew my get info.  At any rate, this Xan trader has been dead since the 13th at least it would seem.

[Dextrome 123]

traders should just be disabled..turn traders into auction houses..and sell auctioneer representatives for lik e15 or 20s ...then have kindgome coffers divided into a premium player pool of funds and non premium player pool of funds..

 

few  things happen here..broken trader system..done with., new method of trade and new coind for rolf for auction house reps.  as well as a more fair money distribution that non prem alts can't spam

 

Sure, if my trader contracts get refunded... so far I've spent 90s on 2 traders, and only earned back 13s (in 3 months)

[Dextrome 123]

Kegan, you are forgetting the massive amount of money is given out as random rare coins now.

 

When my friend got 7+ silver the day before you mention (she stopped counting at 8+ silver) I posted on the other thread saying something serious is going on here, but I was ridiculed.

 

Just imagine if 1000 players find on average just 1 silver each per day this way, that would be 300 gold given out by Rolf per month through this system. 

 

So it doesn't surprise me if the coffer is now drained, because surely Rolf is not giving out that kind of gold per month.

 

Why am I never among those 'countless' lucky players? I only found 1 rare 5 copper coin from around 20 hours of hunting.. (+ I sold almost every corpse to token)

Edited October 21, 2014 by Dextrome

[Cista 428]

Why am I never among those 'countless' lucky players? I only found 1 rare 5 copper coin from around 20 hours of hunting.. (+ I sold almost every corpse to token)

 

Maybe very unlucky  Or there could be a server bias.

 

But who ever got 8 silver, or just 1 silver per day, from selling to the token?  All I am saying is that these amounts from rare coins add up quickly, and I am not surprised if the coffer is drained.

[Delakar 277]

But at least the coins are now evenly distributed to all the random newbs who'll quit within a day/week/month, removing all those coins from circulation entirely!

[Sklo:D 2,210]

But at least the coins are now evenly distributed to all the random newbs who'll quit within a day/week/month, removing all those coins from circulation entirely!

now that you mention it..... Should it be a prem feature?

[Lithien 268]

Here are some real Xan NPC trader get info numbers for you all to mull over since what I believe to be incorrect numbers are being tossed around.  This is all from the same trader.  (Not location, trader.  4 per location.)

 

E =  Earned

S = Spent

R = Ratio

 

You read it silver, copper, iron.  3 57 97 is 3 silver, 57 copper, 97 iron.  The net amount the trader gave out is the Spent minus the Earned.  I think a major purchase could muck that up, but the numbers don't indicate any of that so should be good.  In other words, this one trader for the month of September handed out at least 53 silver (probably more like 60s or 2s per day or 8 silver per day per location if they all the same) but nothing since October 13. 

 

 

August 13       E = 3 57 97; S = 10 05 72; R = 0.36

August 15       E = 6 03 29; S = 12 51 44; R = 0.48

August 24       E = 7 94 51; S = 18 89 20; R = 0.42

August 30       E = 0 00 05; S = 00 20 72; R = 0.002

September 4   E = 3 08 75; S = 06 23 68; R = 0.495

September 22 E = 7 90 43; S = 60 74 91; R = 0.13

September 29 E = 5 34 16; S = 11 85 55; R = 0.45

October 8        E = 5 34 21; S = 20 53 46; R = 0.26

October 13      E = 5 35 71; S = 26 82 07; R = 0.19

October 19      E = 5 36 21; S = 26 82 13; R = 0.19

 

Sorry I can't add tonight's.  I misclicked and blew my get info.  At any rate, this Xan trader has been dead since the 13th at least it would seem.

 

It looks like Rolf is "draining" all of the 40G back that he injected before the traders will receive money again, and not doing it only as a percentage until the 40 G has been removed. Hard on the traders for a short while that way, instead of slowly draining only a part of the pool. If your numbers can be seen as average for all traders (in my test all 4 at one starter city got the same amount per day, so it is not that unlikely), then he should be able to remove 36x53s= 1908s that way per month, so it would only take 2 months to remove the full 40 G.

[Lithien 268]

now that you mention it..... Should it be a prem feature?

 

I am undecided on that one. On one side it would make sense, as it also would prevent non-prem alt abuse, but part of the whole point (or so I thought) was to let the non-prems get their hands on some coins too.

 

I am leaning towards prem only though. I think I would consider going premium (and staying premium) more tempting, as long as I knew I would get a chance at getting my hands on some of this redistributed silvers simply by going premium. But that is just me - I haven't considered this enough from the new players perspective, and generally I am for anything and everything that makes new people stick around long enough to get as addicted as the rest of us

[Brash_Endeavors 4,735]

If they quit as non prems, their characters are deleted. Perhaps deleted coins can be somehow factored back into the coin pool. 

 

When I "quit" for a year. I had 150 silver in my bank that just sat there unused,  till I eventually came back (some people never come back and never "cash out" on their silver. So it is not just non-prems who can sidetrack coins from active circulation.)

[As_I_Decay 1,592]

If they quit as non prems, their characters are deleted.

That statement is not entirely true.

There are certain variables that will secure the account that has never been premium. For instance, I have never had a froob deleted that had more than 24 hrs accumulated play time.

Edited October 21, 2014 by As_I_Decay

[Ecrir 887]

now that you mention it..... Should it be a prem feature?

 

The money which these non prems can find makes a lot of the game more accessible to them, likely increasing the chance that they will keep playing and spend money on the game. So I don't think it should be a prem only feature. Instead I think what Brash proposes is a better solution. Non prems will be deleted after a certain amount of inactivity, at that time just recirculate all the money they still have.

 

Just as with Brash, when I went inactive for 1-2 years I also did so with nearly 2 gold on me. If I hadn't returned then that would have taken 2 gold out of circulation. There's plenty of people who quit, whom also have plenty of money in their bank, so the issue brought up by Delakar is a drop in the ocean and can likely be ignored without any issues.

[Brash_Endeavors 4,735]

 

That statement is not entirely true.

There are certain variables that will secure the account that has never been premium. For instance, I have never had a froob deleted that had more than 24 hrs accumulated play time.

 

 

well thats interesting. I am pretty sure I have had a non prem character deleted that I had actively played for over 24 hours playtime  (one was my priest's "assistant" and had 20.00 in some skills like farming & carpentry. When I came back to the game, she was gone but my alt-mayors who had briefly been premmed were all fine. ) 

Edited October 21, 2014 by Brash_Endeavors

[Nikab 110]

Sorry but since when did Wurm turn into a charity organization? Wurm is NOT a free to play game, it only has a free trial version, if you want the full experience then pay. Did anybody asked the prem players if they want to sponsor Random Joe's prem? 

 

This whole mess started with small group of players complaining about how unfair traders are, they managed to be loud enough so a quick change has been made by Rolf & Co. As usual they just reacted and didn't think things through ... so now the very same group of players who started this whole mess is unsatisfied because they no longer can sell to token and they didn't find just as many coins as other's did. The system is being abused by using nonprem alts foraging/botanizing nonstop.

On the other hand prem players are upset because their money is being given away to random ppl, also quite a few trader owner is feeling cheated and ripped off. 

 

See? Nobody is happy. Except that newbie who just downloaded the game, have not contributed a single thing to the community but still getting payed.

[Brash_Endeavors 4,735]

Actually, I have seen a lot more premium players very satisfied with the change, more than who want the old system back again.  But I guess we all of us have a tendency to see what we want to see, hear what we want to hear. That goes for both sides.

 

"Trickle down" was tried for years, I don't think most were pleased with it beyond the few who profited (and no, they did not "create" that silver themselves only to see it given away to others. Lots of people purchased shop silver without buying into the trader system. Traders got to vacuum it all up regardless who initially purchased it. I am perfectly happy with Rolf deciding that all income from trader contract purchases, is reserved for trader owners only to recirculate, if that would please you.)

 

 I'd like to see "trickle up" given a chance for a 12 month trial. I helped purchase some of that shop silver and I would like a voice in how it gets "recirculated" too. I think encouraging new blood into the game is much better for everyone than "the rich get even richer" variations. 

Edited October 21, 2014 by Brash_Endeavors

[Marshlander 188]

The token selling coffers were emptied when the disclosures on Xanadu traders and the petition to shut them down started. Last week Tuesday they were already empty when I tried to sell a corpse.

 

Most likely Rolf dumped a little of those 40 gold right back into the fund when he introduced the new rare coin feature (otherwise how could he show off this feature?). This seems to have been used up now. Of course in this situation, traders won't recirculate any coin, either.

 

The new system is totally random. There are people who made a lot of silver in those hours, but they are the exception. Most people I bet you have seen little to nothing (I'm personally in the "nothing" department). This is not the welfare / "trickle down" system as it is slighted by so many now.

 

And please, foraging/botanizing nonstop with alts? That is the least likely action to do large-scale with alts - simply because you need to move to new tiles constantly. This system is arguably harder to gamble than either the trader system or the sell system.

Edited October 21, 2014 by Marshlander

[Delakar 277]

The suggestion of only premium players receiving coins is biased in the favour of the playerbase, it may not be a good thing for Code Club. I'd guess they'd like the coins to be used for premium or deeding, ie "cashing in" the virtual currency to the agreed value when those coins were purchased. The more that is taken from circulation, the more hope there is that more will be bought.

 

It may not have been a goal of these changes, but it's likely that a side effect will be to increase the amount of "dead" money - it's been bought, but is now out of circulation on inactive characters. Effectively that ought to make the remaining coins more valuable, but with injection of money at any random time whenever someone decides to do so, it's hard to figure out long term effects.

Edited October 21, 2014 by Delakar

[Kegan 3,926]

now that you mention it..... Should it be a prem feature?

I don't think the sell feature should be premium only but i do think that there should be two pools one for premium players with higher payouts for the items and one for f2p with more restrictions to stop the alt army selling items,  (i also suggest the premium pool have a daily cap instead of the hourly one) 

Edited October 21, 2014 by Kegan