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Othob Rithol

End coin redistribution?

  

92 members have voted

  1. 1. Should coin redistribution via trader/sell to token etc be removed?

  2. 2. If it was removed, which one of the following do you think is the most important change that needs to be done with it.

    • Reduce the price of silver in the shop.
    • Reduce the price of premium.
    • Reduce the price of trader/gold sink items. (eg Sleep powder, shaker orbs)
    • Reduce the price of deed upkeep.
    • Provide a refund for traders already placed.
    • I choose to not answer this question.


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This is just an information gathering poll. Any objections of bias in wording can be addressed.


Edited by Othob Rithol
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Without knowing exactly how the economy is set up, and what % of what is redistributed, this is all just hot air. No one can propose fixes to a complex system we don't know/understand fully.


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The removal of Traders would crush quite a few larger deeds, and simply fail to do anything positive for the economy. People aren't going to buy overpriced silver on the website, so its best to still have silver circulating like so in game instead of just having fall to a standstill because of the shop prices. :P


 


+ Some people have spent alot of time and money on traders... (Personally I know someone with 9, and im pretty sure they'd quit after all that hardwork.)


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How about the option to leave traders the way they were

 

That would be "no" -denoting no change.

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I would like to see something new to handle money distribution but as for the options that are given to compensate i guess upkeep is the most important one to me if traders were taken out. 


Edited by Kegan

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I wanted to vote for both these options...


 


Reduce the price of premium.


 


Provide a refund for traders already placed.

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That would be "no" -denoting no change.

 

Othol, polls don't work like this - it is not possible to vote only on your first question. Thus the poll cannot even be answered by people meaning "no" or meaning "yes" but wanting another option than the ones you listed.

 

Suggest to remove poll, can only produce biased results.

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There is bias for question 2: If you vote no for the first question, it forces you to answer the second question, so those people who want redistribution to stay will still have to pick a replacement option.


 


I personally do not think that coin redistribution should be removed fully from the game. It does need to be adjusted so that everyone has better access to the redistributed coin. Having the traders at the starting towns get all of the redistributed coin is absolutely not a fair way of distributing the coin.


 


The way it was before Xanadu was more fair as everyone had the opportunity to purchase their own trader, however, it did have its drawbacks and people complained a lot about the unfairness back then. The sell to token is even more fair than the old trader system, as it allows everyone the opportunity to access that coin, however, I would argue its TOO fair since it allows non premiums to access it too. Redistribution should be a premium only feature as it is the premium players that contribute to the redistribution pool in the first place. 


 


One option would be to remove the trader redistribution all together and tweak the "sell to token" feature to allow only premium players sell to the token. In addition, it needs to be changed so that it is feasible to use. As it is, a player who uses the sell feature can make a maximum of 36s per month, however, in reality, i bet the average person gets less than 50c per month. Tweak it so the average player can get 3 or 4s per month and with a reasonable amount of effort (ex. instead of having 5c max per hour, change it to 10c or 15c per day or something like that).


 


Or just bring back the old trader system...anything is better than what is happening now.


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Suggest to remove poll, can only produce biased results.

I have to agree on this even the bottom poll leads to a misconstrued outcome with the trader compensation question in there that has nothing to do with the long term compensation for the loss of the money distribution. 

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 tweak the "sell to token" feature to allow only premium players sell to the token

-1. It's at least some way, even if not perfect, to let new players earn pennies.

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Why do I need to pick a second option when voting no? Even if I voted yes, all the options in the second poll are garbage.


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Overall the poll looks fine to me, even if you vote no on option 1, you might still want to give your vote on 2 either way as question 2 clearly begins with, what if. But I do feel that the "Provide a refund for traders already placed" option should be removed from poll 2, the other 4 options are all permanent and long term to compensate for the lack of traders, but this 5th option isn't. This 5th option would be better put in a third question.


 


3rd question: If it was removed, should owners of traders be refunded?


- Yes, fully


- Yes, as with affliction traders


- No


 


The second poll also has a potential issue with it's 2nd option, reduce the cost of premium. Is this the cost in the game shop? Or the cost when buying it for silver? Or both? I'm assuming both since it doesn't specify. This ambiguity could affect the votes. I'd probably specify in colons which of the three it is, so the ambiguity is removed.


 


I also feel that the second poll is missing an option, which would be the combination of options 2, 3 and 4: Reduce the cost of all in game money sinks (so deed upkeep, trader items, prem for silver). For now I voted for reducing the cost of silver in the shop, as that is almost equivalent to the option which I feel is missing.


Edited by Ecrir
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-1. It's at least some way, even if not perfect, to let new players earn pennies.

Well i think that there should be two pools one for ftp and one premium and the premium pool would get better payouts and caps.  I think the token sales could be a much better way at distribution. 

 

He could also do more things with the traders so they don't become just relics like maybe a centralized auction house with them being where you list your items up for sale and they get a tax or something like that when used. 

Edited by Kegan
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An extra option added for people that don't want to answer the 2nd "What if" question. 


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can you add a 'unsure / i don't know / other' option to the first question, please?


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I suggest another poll be created.


 


How many more threads regarding this topic will be created before the end of the week? 


 


I would suggest using large numbers for the poll options, considering the number of threads currently active.


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Well i don't think having cheaper premium or gold price from the store is an option really it would be a bad move on their part to lower it so deed upkeep is about the only option we have to ask for really.  


Edited by Kegan

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voted no 


 


I think coin should be distributed evenly across all servers. 


Edited by LordLouis

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I don't think it should be removed per se. I think traders should be removed, sure. I've always been an advocate for less NPCs in Wurm. However, I like the token selling thing, because it provides so little coin pretty much exclusively new players use it. There are few to no wealthy players selling items to the token to make coin, because these people have better, faster ways. This is how coin redistribution should be. If you had the 40s to place a trader *you do not need coin redistribution*.

Trickle Down economics is well known to not work. This is our current system.
Trickle Up economics is well known TO work. This is the ideal system.

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Make kingdom related missions that will be giving the redistributed cash instead of karma and problem solved. 


 


example:


King's supplies mission:


      the king asks you to sell to him 100 decent woa clay for 30c per unit.


 


quantity


approxQL


Enchant (can be blank too)


Item


Price


 


and you join the mission by selling it to the token by choosing a "Supply kingdom" option, items from missions don't mess with the 5c cap for bulk selling. If you supply enough you can also be getting something like a lottery ticket for silver or credit for moneysink items that you can buy from traders.


 


The above solution can also help with countering item inflation if the items are selected carefully.


 


Then make traders buying items for less than the get price and getting a very small percentage of the recirculated cash in order to make bartering with them


easier. Or make it so that they give no cash but a no-drop note that will be acting like credit for buying non-moneysink items.


 


It's also an alternative that uses a combination of game mechanics that already exist and it will be easy to integrate it in the game.


Edited by Anothernoob

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I'm not sure why getting 1-5s a month is a game breaking worry for some people especially when it's a 50s investment


 


Added my votes


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Without knowing exactly how the economy is set up, and what % of what is redistributed, this is all just hot air. No one can propose fixes to a complex system we don't know/understand fully.

 

What we are all missing so far is this.  Hence, even though the current system is fatally flawed in my mind, it does provide a stable platform for the future development of Wurm.  Changing it on the fly could do serious damage to the economics of Wurm.  Therefore I am forced to vote no and wait until such time as Rolf can introduce his fully thought out alternate method.

 

What I would like to happen is for Rolf to give us some general guidelines that he would be open to and then we could debate solutions that fit those guidelines.  

 

So, lets hear it Rolf, what guidelines must a redesigned system meet?  Give us something useful to discuss.

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