Your gold sink derived expenditures and their future.

[joedobo 1,187]

The redistribution wealth pool is what traders pay out. Its also refereed to as the king's coffers. The money that makes up this pool is a fraction of the money that is taken out of the game via gold sinks. For example; A portion of the silver you pay for deed upkeep ends up in the redistribution pool and is given back to players through traders.

 

 

If their is a biased problem with my poll question, I'd love to hear your input.

 

This is a simple poll. please, don't argue. Please, just answer it and move on.

[Calypsoi 111]

Almost guaranteed drainers and trader owners will say no, and others that bother to read the forums will say yes. 

[Serpentarius 186]

Almost guaranteed drainers and trader owners will say no, and others that bother to read the forums will say yes. 

I don't see why because it would just mean the money would circle BACK to the traders they are draining.

 

If you want a money redistribution scheme that's "fair" and hard to abuse, just make an in-game lottery system where each player with premium get one ticket each automatically and give away silver prices from 5s to 25s from the money pool once a week (and make the winners not able to win again for one month after they won).

Edited October 12, 2014 by Serpentarius

[Aeris 3,764]

Almost guaranteed drainers and trader owners will say no, and others that bother to read the forums will say yes.

Don't you mean the other way around since without the redistribution the drainers wouldn't get any coin?

[joedobo 1,187]

Almost guaranteed drainers and trader owners will say no, and others that bother to read the forums will say yes. 

Perhaps how a phrased the question is not best. Considering all the trader hate, I'd think most people would choose "no". Choose to not contribute to the fund. 

[Nomadikhan 2,196]

I manage 5 traders and I voted yes.  I use the drained funds directly to feed upkeep, very seldom actually making a profit.  (3 deed, combined upkeep of 25s~ so very little profit on cele).  Seeing that I'm basically getting free deeds off the back of others, sorry but it's true, I am at least putting money from the kingdom funds back into the kingdom funds... so in some small way am keeping the cycle going not only for myself but others.

 

I will say as disbands are occuring everyday on Cele that I am making less and less each month and am at the point where I now have to use bought silver to contribute and offset what the traders bring in.  I am now closer to everyone else then I have ever been before in this regard.

[Aeris 3,764]

If we rephrase it:

If you had the choice, would you choose the current system?

That is: That part the money you put into upkeep and the money you purhase at the shop gets recirculated back into the game via traders.

[Atlas 363]

there is support for this movement but we should try to funnel into a single thread, this one has a poll, please visit and vote to stop auto-alt drainers exploiting on Xanadu (only public traders have 100% of all available funds/ATM machines on overdrive shooting out cash)

 

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/111876-shut-down-xanadu-trader-payouts-for-now/

[Nomadikhan 2,196]

there is support for this movement but we should try to funnel into a single thread, this one has a poll, please visit and vote to stop auto-alt drainers exploiting on Xanadu (only public traders have 100% of all available funds/ATM machines on overdrive shooting out cash)

 

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/111876-shut-down-xanadu-trader-payouts-for-now/

I don't see how we can combine threads... Xanadu operates quite differently then other freedom islands.  I have 5 traders locked up on my deed and so have no need to stop any alt draining abuse.

[joedobo 1,187]

If we rephrase it:

If you had the choice, would you choose the current system?

That is: That part the money you put into upkeep and the money you purhase at the shop gets recirculated back into the game via traders.

I don't want to change the poll now. People have voted and its started.

 

 

I already realized I should have asked another question....

 

If you knew that choosing to exclude your gold sink expenditures from contributing to the redistribution pool meant you can't take from it, would you still choose to not contribute?

yes/no

[darthryan 588]

I vote 'no' to overuse of barely applicable economics terms in order to sound intelligent.

[joedobo 1,187]

I vote 'no' to overuse of barely applicable economics terms in order to sound intelligent.

Are you trolling are are trying to hint at errors in my question? If I made a mistake please say so. I'm not interested in sounding smart. I am interested in being concise.

 

expenditure ... an amount of money spent

gold sink ... money taken out of the a game economy.

derived ... to take or get (something) from (something else). To get gold sink monies from player expenditures.

"[gold sink] purchases contributed to the redistribution pool" ... this is what happens in Wurm.

[Othob Rithol 700]

If you could choose whether your deed's upkeep and your silver-for-premium purchases contributed to the redistribution pool, would you choose too?

If you knew that choosing to exclude your gold sink expenditures from contributing to the redistribution pool meant you can't take from it, would you still choose to not contribute?

 

Neither question reads well. It sort of seems that you are asking if people could choose to opt-out of the redistribution system, would they?

 

So my translation would be:

 

A percentage of money from all gold sinks (deeds etc) gets redistributed through traders. If you could choose to not participate in this, would you? 

 

Loading the question with "but you can't get money from traders either" would bias it as much as "the money goes mostly to private hands" since there is no context. Best to rely on an educated/aware voter that probably already knows some details and already has their own opinion on the matter.

[Audrel 2,223]

Too many threads about this. It's not going to change. That is pretty obvious.

[joedobo 1,187]

 

A percentage of money from all gold sinks (deeds etc) gets redistributed through traders. If you could choose to not participate in this, would you? 

 

Loading the question with "but you can't get money from traders either" would bias it as much as "the money goes mostly to private hands" since there is no context. Best to rely on an educated/aware voter that probably already knows some details and already has their own opinion on the matter.

 

It is an opt-out. I wanted to be specific at what and why we would choose to opt-out. Its also important that we don't abstract away the personal element. I think a lot of the hate surrounding the trader system stems from the fact its essentially coins other people purchased. Making the player take ownership and share in the decisions about what happens with their coins should decrease some of the dislike.

 

Is this better?

 

A percentage of the coins you spend on gold sinks (deeds, premium-for-silver, trader trinkets, etc..) gets redistributed through traders.

If you could choose to exclude all redistribution contributions resulting from your spent coin, would you do so? yes-exclude, no-participate

If choosing to opt-out of this system meant you can't take money from it, would still choose to exclude all your contributions? yes-exclude, no-participate

 

 

and another....

Do you think giving you more control over what happens to your money after its spent will increase your appreciation of Wurm's wealth redistribution. yes, increase/ no, not increase

[rixk 830]

Let's make one thing clear, when you enter money and press "Send" button(or was it "OK"?), it stops being your money. You can basically opt out of anything by simply not paying for upkeep. Other than that it is already Rolf's cash, with what he can do however he chooses.

[Busted 289]

I have traders - lucrative ones at that and I think it's time they went away.

 

If it was me coding in game mechanics I'd use a system similar to the current missions where buy orders are satisfied by players selling to a representative of the King when there is demand for such. That way people would both have to travel and produce items for sale to the rep rather than camp a single spot and bleed it dry.

 

Obviously there would have to be a variety of different buy options running per mission wit ha limit of the quantity or quality sold and coin traded but it would give more people an opportunity to take part and get some coin for their labours.

 

Needs work but I'd be happy to have Rolf buy back my traders from me in order to have a fairer, more competitive means of aquiring silver from the system that actually involves more effort than milking a cow.

[Eobersig 1,006]

 

...

 

This is a simple poll. please, don't argue. Please, just answer it and move on.

 

 

I believe there's little sense in making yet another thread on this topic. Esp. not with a somewhat odd poll. Didn't vote. The other poll on the suggestion forums is better.

[SotG_is_OP 357]

Maybe it's time to realize the true expense of this game, as well as the PvP vs. PvE aspect.

 

If you play PvE, you are likely living or with a few others in a small deed, possibly owning more than one to bypass the ratio. You may also have one or more alternate accounts to bypass priest restrictions. Assuming 5s for the deed (one templar) and 8 euros for one account, you are spending 13 euros or 15 silver for every month. Tack on additional deeds and alts and that price drastically increases. This price rivals and even exceeds that of triple A titles. We all know that Wurm Online is not a triple A title, and it definitely isn't worth the price of one.

 

PvP is split into a few categories as follows:

 

Most Epic home server deeds are Freedom style with one or two Templars. Residents generally have one or two accounts total. Total cost is estimated at 10s for the deed (two templars, 3s each per month on Epic), then another 8 euros or 10 silver for one account, more for alts. This adds up to 20 silver/18 euros for the deed and one account, or 30 silver/26 euros for the deed and two accounts. Some smaller Chaos deeds fall into this category as well, although possibly with more templars at

the normal 1s each cost.

 

Most Chaos and Elevation deeds, as well as a few select Epic home server deeds are of a more grand design. They are generally larger with many templars. Residents usually share alternate accounts for priests, but will generally have three or more total. These deeds alone often range, depending on size and number of templars, above 20s, often above 50s and even 1g. The variation is massive, but the owner must pay premium, and premium must be paid on the priest alts that keep the village running and supplied with enchanted PvP ready gear. Ignoring capital bonus (don't tell Freedomers, they'll add this to the list along with moon metal and affinities), assume upkeep of 40s (being very generous here), plus mayor prem and three shared priests for a grand total of 80 silver or 72 euros.

 

The latter category is very generous. I specifically remember a certain former JKE capital having an upkeep cost alone of almost 80 silver without capital bonus... This is ridiculous for a title like Wurm Online.

[joedobo 1,187]

A lot of Off topic comments. I pretty much knew it would happen and it always does when we start talking about Traders.

 

A little reminder...

 

The spirit of this poll is addressing whether people would value having more say in what happens to a player's coins after shim spends them. Telling people how to act, think, or do is never going to be received as well as asking them if they want to take part in the decision making process.

 

 

I want to kindly thank the folks who didn't like what was going on here for whatever reason and simply didn't vote, didn't post, and closed thread.

[Kagrenac 812]

A lot of Off topic comments. I pretty much knew it would happen and it always does when we start talking about Traders.

 

A little reminder...

 

The spirit of this poll is addressing whether people would value having more say in what happens to a player's coins after shim spends them. Telling people how to act, think, or do is never going to be received as well as asking them if they want to take part in the decision making process.

 

 

I want to kindly thank the folks who didn't like what was going on here for whatever reason and simply didn't vote, didn't post, and closed thread.

 I really don't see anything that is off topic.

You created a thread thread about traders/redistribution, that has a pretty wide topic.

 

Voting no really makes no sense at all, "I want to pay the same amount and buy all my silver from the shop" vs "I want to have the same amount and be able to sell things to make money"

Edited October 13, 2014 by Kagrenac

[fencejumper 491]

Almost guaranteed drainers and trader owners will say no, and others that bother to read the forums will say yes. 

 

As one of these people that have trader owners on epic, I would say yes.

[Ayes 3,715]

Considering all the trader hate

 

I think a lot of the hate surrounding the trader system

 

There is no "hate", as you put it, in objections posted as to the functioning of the Trader draining system, only reasoning's as to why it is detrimental to the game. The fact that you would label those objections as "hate" to defame them with its negative connotations says more about you than those objecting to this process. 

 

Recently I purchased 1 gold from the Wurm Shop for approximately $145.00 US Dollars to use for funding my various deeds and player interactive purchases. The fact that Rolf will then turn around and hand out portions of those funds for free to other players with little to no effort involved on their part is what I find to be problematic and upsetting. Again, there is no "hate" involved in this, only the inequity that anyone who purchases silver/gold from the Wurm Shop is funding others Wurm expenses through this Trader draining system that Rolf has enabled.

 

That he treats the paying customers funds in this cavalier manner is sort of an insult to them. These players are the ones who fund the game, along with others who purchase their premium time from the Wurm Shop. That some can not comprehend this simplicity leads me to believe that they do indeed understand actually that this is happening but since they benefit from it they are quite content to let it continue. Now I don't even "hate" these players either, nor even dislike them for that reason.

 

The more changes that are made to phase out of this Trader draining system the more all will pay their fair share for playing the game and the game will further profit from it, since former Trader draining funds will not be available and those funds will then more usually be purchased from the Wurm Shop, since less players will have this silver/gold available to sell.

 

Really, the situation is not too difficult to understand. For whatever reasons that Trader draining was instituted, it has now corrupted the financial equitability of the game. Rolf now walks the tightrope between treating the paying customers with respect by not giving away their Wurm Shop purchased coins to others and treating with consideration those within the game for long periods of time who have become dependent upon it.

 

This then is my answer to your Poll. I wish Rolf the best of luck in dealing with this conundrum of a predicament that he has encased his game within. His perseverance has enabled the game to survive throughout all these years, so in the end I hope it will also enable him to deal with this situation by eliminating it, as time slowly ebbs on within these lands of Wurm.

 

=Ayes=

[Gnowai 15]

Replace traders with the real life stock market and see how your argument doesn't make much sense.

People invested and are getting the dividend that comes from it, good luck eliminating that without getting into legal problems.

[Rexxor 4]

Remove private traders only keep public traders.

 

All money should go to king this would be fair to players who don't have an personal trader. (50s is alot of silver).

 

Change personal Trader into Auctioneer so wurmians can sell and buy items from the world wide auction pool. and make fair money that way.