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Elktazahjr

Xanadu traders really need to be removed/nerfed

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, but keep traders give back part of money after someone bought the item to drain back.

 

Why not just make the items cheaper to start with?

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I'd like to see them automatically pay a cut of that item's price to the deed they are on. You were nice enough to place a trader in your village. I came along and bought a shaker orb. You should get a cut in paid upkeep. Not cash.


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I'd like to see them automatically pay a cut of that item's price to the deed they are on. You were nice enough to place a trader in your village. I came along and bought a shaker orb. You should get a cut in paid upkeep. Not cash.

You can already do that by setting the tax rate.

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Well, people on Affliction got 20s for their traders, BUT those traders were fully removed and don't exist anymore. If the trader system would be about to get changed, in my opinion people shouldn't get any refunds, just get to keep their traders even if functionality of those will be other/worse.


Edited by Samool

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I don't think he would need to give anyone any money back just stop them from getting funds from the king is all. Now if you had a new trader like under 6 months old then i guess maybe offer compensation for them but all the older ones have gotten their 50s back and loads more.  

 

I wonder if the person who bought your trader deed, The Northern Outpost, on Indy has recovered their 25s purchase price.  The trader is most likely more than 6 months old, so by your suggestion they wouldn't get anything past the little amount that remote traders are getting on Indy now.  I guess this is a good solution just as long as everyone,  the ones that "have gotten their 50s back and loads more," can offload their traders on others before the fix, right?

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If they would even think about removing traders, then a good start would be stopping the ability to place them. We can still place them today (if you really like gambling when the odds are against you, have too much money to do much thinking before using it, or if you simply never frequent the forums), so removing them tomorrow without reimbursement is absurd.


 


But for all of those who like to compare this to the removal of traders on Affliction, sure - lets do exactly what he did with Affliction. Remove the traders, reimburse the owners (20s), and wipe all the servers!!! Then we all have to start over, and it can't get more fair than that, right? Or is it only fair, when you suggest to remove the investment of trader owners, or is it only a reasonable suggestion when it isn't your investment (of money or time)?


 


It is hillarious to see someone who sold of his trader empire (for profit) when he thought they were going to be changed soon, then complain when the traders he does have left, aren't receiving enough money to be worth draining, then suggest that everyone else should lose their traders without reimbursement...


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I wonder if the person who bought your trader deed, The Northern Outpost, on Indy has recovered their 25s purchase price.  The trader is most likely more than 6 months old, so by your suggestion they wouldn't get anything past the little amount that remote traders are getting on Indy now.  I guess this is a good solution just as long as everyone,  the ones that "have gotten their 50s back and loads more," can offload their traders on others before the fix, right?

Okay fine i can see your point i guess and as far as the payouts in remote areas that has noting to do with it. I have talked to a player with a trader in a remote area that had 8s already on his trader and the month was not even close to being over and it was way out in a remote area.  

 

I also had money on my traders on deliverance today so i have discovered what i think was my issue and it has nothing to do with the area my trader is in. 

Edited by Kegan

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It is hillarious to see someone who sold of his trader empire (for profit) when he thought they were going to be changed soon, then complain when the traders he does have left, aren't receiving enough money to be worth draining, then suggest that everyone else should lose their traders without reimbursement...

 

This.  I've seen so many of these people recently it's absolutely ridiculous.

 

How did the topic get steered toward traders in general when it was originally about Xanadu's public traders anyways?

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Money distribution to traders on Xanadu has been tweaked with (downwards) due to severe criticism. Note that due to severe deficit in the pool of money which negated the SELL option in the beginning, 40 gold coins were added during the first weeks which will now be retracted over time. These measures should help stabilize the economy quite a bit.

 

Well let's see how it will go now...

Edited by Elktazahjr

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The key measure (and probably the only measure that means anything) is if this has any effect on Rolf's income.  Personally, I believe his income should now decrease since rather than stabilize the economy, he has actually reduced stability by reducing the silvers in circulation.  This should be fun to see what happens and how large a change he actually made.


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And why would Rolf lose money from letting people buy silver coins rather than handing it out to them for free, "GoldFever"?

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Because generally speaking people won't buy more coin.  What may well happen is that the free or subsidized will pull back their participation.  Some have stated they will do exactly this.  As the overall player base/activity decreases, overall purchases could well decrease as well.


 


This is all theory, be very interesting to see what will happen.


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It is a very delicate matter.. increasing/lowering money supply is used to boost/cool down the economy. I hope Rolf has a plan, something more than few guys complaining on the forums.. At least I don't see currently any reason, why Rolf should try to cool down the economy and tell, that it should help to stabilize economy, it was stable already before the change.

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The key measure (and probably the only measure that means anything) is if this has any effect on Rolf's income.  Personally, I believe his income should now decrease since rather than stabilize the economy, he has actually reduced stability by reducing the silvers in circulation.  This should be fun to see what happens and how large a change he actually made.

No.

 

The key measure is the happiness of the players. If players get fed up with how the game works or the costs of playing it and becomes too unhappy they will quit. Sure, the income measure is important, but if you blindly stare at income you will not know what hit you when it starts free falling. 

 

Rolf has reacted, this is good, because it means he's listening. He didn't change the system though, it's still made for bots. My hopes are not that high, but the nerf was welcome. Hopefully he'll come up with some better system entirely not too far in the future.  There might be some light in the tunnel... :)

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No.

 

The key measure is the happiness of the players. If players get fed up with how the game works or the costs of playing it and becomes too unhappy they will quit. Sure, the income measure is important, but if you blindly stare at income you will not know what hit you when it starts free falling. 

 

Rolf has reacted, this is good, because it means he's listening. He didn't change the system though, it's still made for bots. My hopes are not that high, but the nerf was welcome. Hopefully he'll come up with some better system entirely not too far in the future.  There might be some light in the tunnel... :)

 

I actually believe we are in agreement, just discussing different parts of the response cycle.  I assumed that making this change will calm things down for awhile.  Your point is that Rolf needed to "do something" which he did.  I fully agree with you.  You always have to pay attention to your customers first and foremost and he choose a method to respond and he did so.  Good for him.

 

However, now that the emergency has been dealt with, we have a very interesting situation in evaluating his choice of response.  No ones costs are actually going to go down from this change.  While Wurm just got a lot more expensive for some to play, it didn't get cheaper for anyone.  What impact is this going to have on Wurm?  Rolf needs a metric to measure this by and ultimately that is revenue--though other pointers can and should be looked at as well.

 

It is not beyond the realm of possibility that his chosen method to respond may actually at some point in time force him to attempt to increase overall store prices again to try to make up lost revenue.  On the other hand, perhaps those who were getting "free" money will increase their purchases from the store such that it all works out.  While I don't think so, it could happen.  Interesting times indeed.  This is tricky stuff and you make changes to your business model on the fly at your peril.  

 

Lets hope the totally thought out and reworked system is indeed a light at the end of the tunnel.

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I don´t think a lot of people making a silver here and there from traders is a bad thing per se, but wen you see few people selling from 1 to 5 gold coins periodically, then is clear that there is something wrong about, and there is a big chance that the system is not working as intended.


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Rolf has reacted, but the nerf was welcome.

.........................................................................what nerf did rolf do ? and when ?.....thanks .

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Eyyy,


 


How many of you have actually seen these bots you're talking about? Just making sure you're not FUDing because that would not be worthy of true Wurm players!


 


I assume you're aware of the complexity of coding intelligent bots in a sandbox like Wurm that do these things while staying undetected by our antihacking systems and the other players.


 


The GM team and I have heard of no bots that move around and affect the economy in a sophisticated way like the ones you speak of so you must really know stuff we don't.


 

When you do find one, report it and we'll deal with it nicely.

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I think we do not really mean bots, as in fully automated scripts or programs. We are talking about people or machine watching the chat feed on Xanadu for the trader update message and then manually draining the traders. Or just manually checking the traders regularly using alts. 


 


Not same as botting, and not against the rules. But still, it's a strange system when you gain money from having alts parked in starter areas to check the traders. I don't think anybody uses their main to travel to starter deeds for draining unless they live right next to the starter deed, and if someone does, what fun is it and why does it make sense to have such a game mechanic?


 


Even having money drop from mobs would be a better system than this, more fair and would promote adventuring, although might not be in line with the true sandbox thinking. Selling to tokens or draining traders are not either though...


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I had a friend that hated surface mining so much, he did something in wurm assistant to play a sound when he receives the message "you get some rock shards" as opposed to the usual "you chip away at the rock".


 


If the traders generate a system message that can be detected and subsequently play a sound through wurm assistant (or some other means), then yes... someone could be doing laundry or whatever and listen for the bell to come run to the computer and drain the trader.


 


You wanna know why this makes me upset?  Because I earn my money.  I go out and dig... mine... imp and enchant tools and sell them, same as 95% of the population, and it angers me that someone's just standing there waiting for a bell to go off in order to make the same money I do with 1 interaction with a trader. 


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Aaaand we have money drops from mobs, foraging and botanizing, nice Rolf. I hope this turns out good!


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I didn't actually expect anything to really happen after this thread, I thought it'd end up as another heavy discussion between why they should/shouldn't be removed followed by nothing. Really glad to actually see change for once. I also hope this will turn out good.

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