Sign in to follow this  
Steeloxide

The effects of Acquisitiveness

Wurm Economy  

64 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you think wurms economy is heading in a good direction?



Recommended Posts

Ac·quis·i·tive·ness
Strong Interest in acquiring money or material things.

This is one of the main driving forces in wurm (and many other games). The desire to have the best house on the best plot of land, to have the best sword and armour you can have made, to ride the best steed that can possibly be bred or to have the best skills that can possibly be achieved.

As people vie for the "best" stuff, and as the devs make changes, the values of these things change over time.

In the majority of games its within reason, but sometimes it gets a little out of hand.


I know wurm isnt quite as bad as the examples in the link, but Is wurms economy getting out of hand aswell?

Is wurm heading down the same path?


Is it good or bad thing?

Personally Im not a fan of the values of stuff ingame, not only is most of the stuff outside my budget range so I will never get to experience them, it is also a big ugly wall when trying to get new people into the game.

I often get this face when talking about the wurm economy with real life freinds and family : :blink: , followed by "Are your serious!?"

What do you think? Discuss below!

PS: Please keep topic serious and constructive. Ill ask Mods to please remove posts that do not conform.

 

Edited by Steeloxide
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The economy is alright I think, it's player controlled, might not be extremely stable but it works. If were talking about high value items like rares losing value or gaining to much value (supreme butcher knife) it happens in every games and in real life - think stock exchange. Supply and demand plays a huge role in these prices. I might of bought a supreme spindle a month or so ago for like 25s but one sold recently for 18s. Its fine, but that's just me. Spyglass is another thing, it happens - price will adjust eventually.


Edited by Niki

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rare/Unobtainable items in every game are worth a lot of real money, reflecting the 'difficulty' in getting them in-game. (This 'difficulty' can be anything from amount of time taken to acquire an item, think grinding etc to the rarity/discontinued nature of an item, think scale/BoK etc)


 


There isn't anything you can do about it really. Make these expensive items more common/easier to obtain and it ruins the rarity aspect of them. (Also ruins the value of cheaper alternatives)


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And the problem is what, exactly?


 


That fools will pay good money for shinies?


That you can't afford everything you want?


That supply and demand determines the price?


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is more about people realizing the importance of the games in their life i think. If you spend a large amount of time in a game then why not spend some of your money on it? 


 


Look at the new space game i am not sure what it is called but it raised like 40 million dollars by selling ships and pre-order stuff to its players. If it was not for me hating space related games i would probably have been buying up things there with the rest of the other people. The game industry is a huge market so why not get in on a piece of it if we can. We play the games already and if we can buy and sell along the way and have some fun and maybe make a few bucks then why not? At least it is not the "gold farmer" doing it all now, lol


  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's better than it was in the past. No more unique christmas gifts, unique monsters like dragons and their loot got fixed, artifacts were made more fair. Wurm is more democratic than ever, and the value of rare and unique things was toned down. Of course with super rare the valrei items it's going wrong again.


Edited by Judicator
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The nest egg mentioned in the OP link is one of the most brillant items invented in the history of MMOs.


Also, it has hatched.


Edited by Cista

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's better than it was in the past. No more unique christmas gifts, unique monsters like dragons and their loot got fixed, artifacts were made more fair. Wurm is more democratic than ever, and the value of rare and unique things was toned down. Of course with super rare the valrei items it's going wrong again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All I'm seeing is " I can't buy as much as he can, that's not fair"... Whoooooo cares?

Look at eve, it's doing fine and has a huge market of USD/EURO ships etc.

If you got the cash to pay, buy it. If you got the goods to sell, go for it. The market shouldn't be regulated by anyone, let it remain a capitalistic.

I see it as, if Johnny is making X and Tim is buying X, Johnny gets more cash. If Johnny gets more cash, he will buy things benefiting others and they'll buy things etc etc etc etc.

It's fine, don't touch it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whats wrong with a game having rare and 'expensive' items? In almost all cases, these items are still obtainable though gameplay anyway.

(I don't count Entropia Universe as a game, it is a casino)

 

These items usually give people long term goals to work towards. I know that when I used to play Runescape 5-6 years ago, I always dreamed of owning a Santa/Party hat. I eventually did reach my goal of both a Santa and Yellow Partyhat. These were some of the highlights and best memories of me achieving goals in that game. I've always liked that Runescape had very expensive/rare items that you could one day hope to get. I liked grinding away and seeing myself get closer to obtaining something.

 

Wurm has the same qualities I feel, with the rare system and also with items that are highly demanded / expensive, such as drake/scale etc. With effort put into training your skills, you can earn enough silver in-game to purchase these items and collect them. Just another goal in a sandbox that I'm sure I share with many others.

Edited by Judicator

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For the most, I don't' care. I only need 1s a month for my deed and I can make all my own stuff so money matter very little to me. 


 


I tend to lean more toward "heading in the wrong direction" mainly because I don't' like how P2W drives so much in this game. Wish: 1) it was a bannable offence to sell gold, game items or characters; 2) the game had a single fixed monthly fee(includes premium and upkeep for a small deed) and a separate in-game currency which can only be legally obtained in game; 3) information or easy to use information gathering tools where available so those with real-life programing and data analysis skill didn't have significant advantage; 4) the whole concept of dragon armor and rares is not good in my book. I don't like it when a games gives a minority few (P2W-deep pockets or elitist powergamers) shinies so the majority can dream/hope/drool at what other players have. 


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For myself I voted don't care. I give everything away to kingdom members so its never been a concern of mine.


 


For others who come into possession of some shinies, good luck to them, keep or sell, its their choice. same as its the choice of the buyer to shell out the readies or not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Acquisitiveness is a character of the individual. The game may or may not provide these opportunities to acquire things. Still, to associate the game economy with this characteristic in individuals and then try to adapt it in some meaningful way to this individualistic desire would not be possible since it is so varied.


 


With this in mind I would not associate the Wurm economy with "acquisitiveness" and then be able to respond to your poll to state if it is heading in a good direction because of this nature of the individual.


 


I will state however that I believe the Wurm economy is in a very bad state because of the structure of the in game currency Silver and its variant coinages. This is because of Traders making it available to players at a greatly discounted rate than what it is sold for within the Wurm Shop. Then those players who obtain it for this discounted rate inflate the prices for other items that players sell within the game, since they are not paying for it with real life funds as others who purchase it from the Wurm Shop. Those who purchase their Silver from the Wurm Shop then can not compete for the prices items are inflated to from this process.


 


Having Silver integrated into the game in this manner is what distorts the Wurm economy. Silver within the game needs to be on a separate level that can not be translated out into the real world to be bought and sold. It should be an in game coinage used by players for trade within the game and not applicable to outside payments, such as premium time, deed upkeep, settlement forms, etc. The Wurm Shop should not even sell Silver, just as WoW for example does not sell its gold to other players. It is only an in game currency and thus only those underground websites sell it.


 


A significant part of Wurm is the ability to make real life funds and profits from playing the game. To me this is its detriment and takes it from a game played for the enjoyment it provides, to one of a focus upon playing for profit. Certainly there are many that do not take this approach of profit but its taint then effects the Wurm economy in various ways. I suppose this system will endure and adjustments will be made to it but retaining it as an allure to attract players is not the way to go.


 


=Ayes=


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The fact that there are high-end items only affordable by the most affluent players (in-game or out-of-game) isn't a bad thing IMO. It gives people something to aspire to and creates incentives, if that is what they want. I have gone through a phase where I wished I could earn enough in-game or spend enough RL money to afford such things. None of these items are necessary to enjoy or even to excel at the game (with perhaps the exception if you wanted to become a distinguished combatant in 1v1 in PvP, idk).


 


The problem is, below the level of top-tier or vanity items the economy really drops off quickly. Wurm has a scale of 1-100 for ql, but nothing below 70ql really sells well or reliably (I'm not talking about bulk, which only comprises a handful of options typically). The misconception that rare items are somehow worth 5 times or more than their normal counterparts has somehow infected more than just the high-end players (for whom those items are actually worth that much). To compound this, rares are just an utter lottery and many other, highly valued items were available mostly during windows of opportunity. The only avenue left for players who find that there is no way provided for them to work towards a certain, personal goal is to throw money at the game.


 


I certainly wish that there were more ways to creatively (and with a lot of effort) work towards a high-end reward. Or that there were more rewards coded into the game which didn't just involve buying some high-end gear and signing up for a unique slaying event (for PvE)! For a game built around shaping the environment and shared work as a community, there is actually very little tangible reward for exactly these kinds of activities.


 


If the developers feel that this is what they want, then fine. I will enjoy even without participating in those kinds of rewards. But I cannot help but feel that the overall situation has some major oversights and a lot of misguided potential.


Edited by Marshlander

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This seems to really be a freedom problem tbh.

On pvp servers most everything is given to kingdom/alliance mates for free or very little. I have seen the most charity of any MMO I've ever played in wurm on epic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I will state however that I believe the Wurm economy is in a very bad state because of the structure of the in game currency Silver and its variant coinages. This is because of Traders making it available to players at a greatly discounted rate than what it is sold for within the Wurm Shop. Then those players who obtain it for this discounted rate inflate the prices for other items that players sell within the game, since they are not paying for it with real life funds as others who purchase it from the Wurm Shop. Those who purchase their Silver from the Wurm Shop then can not compete for the prices items are inflated to from this process.

 

 

I am curious; which craftable items that players sell in Wurm do you see as having inflated prices? Fact is all crafted items have lost 30-50 % silver value since the price of silver in the webshop went up. Example: gems were 2-3c per QL and are now 1c per QL. That i DEflation.

 

Also: players that wish to buy things with real-life fund cannot compete with players that do not inject real-life funds to their accounts? That's really odd.... I mean, a player can invest a thousand Euros of outside money, and then you say he cannot buy stuff in the game because of players that don't have a thousand Euros added to their account. I believe that is faulty logic.. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wurm value is linked to real money, so anyone can just buy wurm superpowers by throwing tons of real money on to it. The more rare powerfull items there are, the more wurm is won by real life money. That's the difference with trying really hard to earn yourself a partyhat in Runescape, and makes wurm more like Entropia Universe.

The whole basis of this game is and has been pay-to-win.

Take the deeding system as example. The more money you have or are willing to throw at the game, the more property+resources you have.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wish: 1) it was a bannable offence to sell gold, game items or characters;

 

Think about the grind in this game. A LOT of time goes into the characters, for example. How many people would be wary of making that kind of investment, when, for example one day they might snap from the 400th Drop > On Ground, or some other facet of the game that wasn't there when they started. Or perhaps they have a life change, where playing isn't a luxury anymore. There's got to be some kind of escape clause when you're spending so many hours doing stuff that isn't necessarily pleasant while it's happening, because you need to in order to build up that character.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wurm's economy is worse than the status quo economies in mass produced games mimicking World of Warcraft and Dark Age of Camelot's.


 


That doesn't mean it isn't functional, but it certainly isn't first class like EvE.


 


I don't believe it is headed in a very good direction, but my reasons as to why, are very very different from yours, OP.


 



http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/104519-buying-gold-from-ab-code/page-2#entry1060450



Edited by Dairuka

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is having over 260k tql of gems covered under the term:


 




Ac·quis·i·tive·ness




 


Because I honestly don't see this as a problem. I buy gems, and there are numerous ways of getting gems.


 


I have learned, things in Wurm are only worth what someone will pay for them.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Meh prices for certain items are "outrageous" only in proportion to the demand for them, regardless of if they have an real use. Dragon skulls are a good example. Atm they are useless aside from some kind of trophy item, and yet they trade for well over ten silver, granted some speculate there will be a future use (speculating in its purest form economically).


 


Overall its basic economics: supply and demand, etc. Prices have actually gone down, even on pvp servers, as the number of high end crafters grows. Not to mention crafters that deal in high volume such as Led-Mart to name one example.


 


EDIT: Now if certain king players want to set tariffs and taxes on certain goods, Im all for it. Be nice to have some smuggling ingame.


Edited by Klaa

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some posts about all the fancy things people have are silly. People play a lot and spend money on things which are valuable. I think that some items are put up for extortionate prices but people will pay for something if they want it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I Voted yes, but in general i think the markets are going down. As a seller that is bad, but as a buyer things are getting better. I put a lot of IRL money in the game, but i take it as i am buying time (For example instead of imping stuff to ql 90 i buy it and thus saving playtime). I also speculate and buy/sell accounts, yet again for the skills to be able to do stuff i would like to. Sometimes i take it as an investment, sometimes i just feel the urge. I like that lately account prices are going lower, making it more possible to buy better accounts at a lower rate.


As if wurm is P2W, i don´t think so. Wurm has a really interesting concept making "winning" in wurm... kinda... hard to define. If for someone "winning" is making most money, then for the guy next to him "winning" is building the biggest and coolest deed. I have to say, i do like the possibility to buy ingame stuff for IRL money. I can choose not to buy, but i can choose to buy. It is rather simple with pretty much fixed course of 1S to 1€. 


As stated before, wasting money on chars, SP, Coc, Woa tools, LT weps and high end enchanted stuff for me allows me to spend the 2-3h i might get daily doing what i love and catching up people who have 5-8h per day to play. To conclusion if i buy 10s for 10€, that i use to buy 10k dirt meaning i dont have to spend around 5-10h digging it feels for me like i save money, as i make that IRL in 1-2h? Wurm is my entertainment, my hobbie and something that i love, so i am willing to invest in it.


For the Scale =300€. That is one of the most expensive and exclusive items in the game. If you look other MMO-s, wasting 300€ for 8 item set(?) of the finest and most exclusive items is not that much;). Might feel alot, but in real life for 300€ you won`t get that many exclusive items.Yes these are "pixels", but Wurm is not just a random game. People spend a lot of time in Wurm making it the same as sports and other hobbies. See if you can get the best equipment for basketball for 300€? Will it last the same? Don´t think so.


Edited by Argustin
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this