How Do You Devs Expect...

[darthryan 588]

I don't see how it impacts sitting on deed and imping needles and mallets all day at all. None of the PvP changes "severely" impact PvE in any remote may unless you actually enjoy shooting arrows at animals that don't even move when you're far enough away. Sorry, but if you're not qualified to suggest something you don't know anything about then that's just how it is. Don't get offended by me because of a solid fact that's out of my control. Freedom suggestions to PvP are what made mauls useless and got us in the mess it's in now anyway.

Erm. There are a rather lot of "PvP only" changes that would affect Freedom. Like, for example, the changes to archery and its body control gain.

[Alec 729]

I made a thread trying to make the Devs gave out actual numbers and percentages of the PvP game.

 

Now its derailed without any hope of recovering.

 

Anyway I'm off to play repo, I will check later to see how this threads keeps going off tracks.

[Kagrenac 812]

Erm. There are a rather lot of "PvP only" changes that would affect Freedom. Like, for example, the changes to archery and its body control gain.

Not sure how the body control gain thing had anything to do with pvp, that was Rolf changing stuff because he wanted to.

Same thing with the archery changes, noone asked for those, noone thought that would improve pvp (that actually pvps) Rolf just decided to change it.

[Lotus1 315]

I don't see how it impacts sitting on deed and imping needles and mallets all day at all. None of the PvP changes "severely" impact PvE in any remote may unless you actually enjoy shooting arrows at animals that don't even move when you're far enough away. Sorry, but if you're not qualified to suggest something you don't know anything about then that's just how it is. Don't get offended by me because of a solid fact that's out of my control. Freedom suggestions to PvP are what made mauls useless and got us in the mess it's in now anyway.

 

If you're the manager of a company looking for ideas on how to improve the marketing department do you just ask the marketing department or do you ask for input from elsewhere as well? While the obvious answer may be to ask for input from the marketing department only, the more successful companies will tend to listen to feedback from MANY sources.

 

To say someone is not "qualified" to provide a suggestion simply because they aren't playing the same play-style as you is turning a blind eye to what might be a good suggestion. If you want to improve pvp, listen to what EVERYONE says, and then make the decision. If you just take the same group of people and only ask them for an opinion, you are limiting your options greatly.

 

Not every suggestion is going to be a good suggestion, but you never know when and where a good idea will come from.

 

 

To the OP and the actual post: if a thread like the one you linked does not work, what will work?

[Alec 729]

To the OP and the actual post: if a thread like the one you linked does not work, what will work?

 

 

 

How do you Devs expect that threads like this one will work, if you never give the actual numbers, percentages and functionalities of the game?

 

 

Asking for feed back about balance to a player base that has absolutely no real knowledge of the details of the game, is one of the most irrational things I saw in my life as gamer.

 

 

Now a question to all the people that plays on PvP servers, do you guys think this will actually work? and maybe with the help of the player committee?

 

Discuss.

 

That is why I made this thread.

 

 

And I really think that everyone missed the point of this thread entirely with all the PvP vs PvE drama posts that had developed.

 

So yea, keep your PvP vs PvE poo fight posts (that you guys love) and ignore completely the OP.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Alec

[Lotus1 315]

That is why I made this thread.

 

 

And I really think that everyone missed the point of this thread entirely with all the PvP vs PvE drama posts that had developed.

 

So yea, keep your PvP vs PvE poo fight posts (that you guys love) and ignore completely the OP.

 

I apologize for missing the numbers statement. However, why not just ask for everyone's input rather than just pvpers? If you don't want this thread to be about that then you might want to take that statement out or reword is a bit. I am not trying to badger you about it. I'm just saying what I'm observing throughout the thread.

 

As far as the numbers go, I think it would really depend on how that information is presented. Could  the "number crunchers" start using this new info to their advantage in pvp and start knowing more about how to effectively kill others than their counterparts who might not know that information? Basically, what implications would actually knowing those number have on pvp? Sure, it might make for a grand discussion about how to balance things, but I don't know how much more effective even that would be.

 

I actually like the idea of another pvp committee and presenting those people with the numbers. The question there is who do you recruit because if you recruit the wrong people you will get nowhere.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Lotus1

[Alec 729]

I apologize for missing the numbers statement. However, why not just ask for everyone's input rather than just pvpers? If you don't want this thread to be about that then you might want to take that statement out or reword is a bit. I am not trying to badger you about it. I'm just saying what I'm observing throughout the thread.

 

As far as the numbers go, I think it would really depend on how that information is presented. Could  the "number crunchers" start using this new info to their advantage in pvp and start knowing more about how to effectively kill others than their counterparts who might not know that information? Basically, what implications would actually knowing those number have on pvp? Sure, it might make for a grand discussion about how to balance things, but I don't know how much more effective even that would be.

 

I actually like the idea of another pvp committee and presenting those people with the numbers. The question there is who do you recruit because if you recruit the wrong people you will get nowhere.

[Ecrir 887]

Goblin and troll villages are overglorified birchwood goblin/troll mounds.

 

Grab mound coding for spawn purpuses.

Slap on uniques "location coding" to each spawned entity.

Add a custom model that is a bit more creative than the current mounds.

 

Do that and let the "village" decay like a normal mound and ur pretty much done.

[Alec 729]

I disagree that the idea has to come down to overglorified mounds.

For example, add different kinds of goblins/trolls. Hunter's, Shamans, warriors, slingers, drummers, etc.

A simple example of how it could interact in combat:

When you actually attack one of them (anywhere on the map) it alerts others nearby (they've got a mouth after all, so local range?) and others nearby come to aid their fellow. If you actually attempt to attack the village then the drummer would start using his drums to call everybody back to defend the tribe. Simple traps could be in place around the goblin village, set by the hunters.

The different goblins would fight in different ways, helping each other. The hunter could focus on abilities used to restrict the movement of his target (traps, snares, etc). The shaman could heal his allies and debuff enemies, while the warriors would be the current normal goblins. The drummer would continue to use his drums, which buffs his allies (greatly increasing their CR, there could even be multiple drummers, but the buff shouldn't stack). New goblins could continue to spawn while the drummer or their leader lives, while the hunters try to keep you away from them and the shamans try to heal them when they are damaged. The slingers will attack from range (with a troll village it could be trolls throwing boulders at you).

 

In that circumstance you actually need tactics and teamwork in order to take the village down, especially if the CR buff from the drummers is significant. The point of the goblin/troll village idea isn't some nice model to stare at, but for new challenging group content to be added to the game. Something that doesn't come down to just another unique creature, we've got plenty of solo boss content to go around.

[As_I_Decay 1,592]

I don't see how it impacts sitting on deed and imping needles and mallets all day at all. None of the PvP changes "severely" impact PvE in any remote may unless you actually enjoy shooting arrows at animals that don't even move when you're far enough away. Sorry, but if you're not qualified to suggest something you don't know anything about then that's just how it is. Don't get offended by me because of a solid fact that's out of my control. Freedom suggestions to PvP are what made mauls useless and got us in the mess it's in now anyway.

What about your server mates crying about mine doors a few years ago and how people were making fortifications with them that were "unraidable".

Now I can't cover a mine if it's more than 100 slope. I could sit here all day citing things that you guys screwed up for everyone, but instead I will stroke your ego and agree that PVPers have it all figured out...   

OT: Wurm has always been a joke in this regard. "Test everything for us.. we can't afford the time/expense to and we're not going to tell you how mechanics work at all... you must figure it out and then tell us what works and what's broke". And it's like this with everything, both PVP and PVE related.

The biggest surprise of my Wurm career was when the one dev (think it was Erik) posted numbers and such for sorcery crap. First time I had ever seen some solid info dropped. Wish they did that all the time, instead of giving us vague update logs in Rolftalk.

[darthryan 588]

Not sure how the body control gain thing had anything to do with pvp, that was Rolf changing stuff because he wanted to.

Same thing with the archery changes, noone asked for those, noone thought that would improve pvp (that actually pvps) Rolf just decided to change it.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Darthryan

[perji 79]

OT: Wurm has always been a joke in this regard. "Test everything for us.. we can't afford the time/expense to and we're not going to tell you how mechanics work at all... you must figure it out and then tell us what works and what's broke". And it's like this with everything, both PVP and PVE related.

[Stormi 407]

What about your server mates crying about mine doors a few years ago and how people were making fortifications with them that were "unraidable".

Now I can't cover a mine if it's more than 100 slope. I could sit here all day citing things that you guys screwed up for everyone, but instead I will stroke your ego and agree that PVPers have it all figured out... 

 

Who needs a mine entrance that's over 100 slope? I seriously hope you're trolling. Something like that is strait jacket worthy.

 

I like how PvPers are just given this judgement that we all have some sort of ego in regard to game balance. It really is hilarious the saltiness we get from people who are just simply clueless.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Stormi

[Propheteer 7,139]

I would in no way think that I am qualified to make even the tiniest suggestion on how to tweak anything PvP-related. But I resent being told that I am not qualified to voice my concern when PvP-suggestions severely impact PvE. That is all.

 

well to be fair, we complain about code not being seperated as much as pvers do, a lot of changes that freedomers hate that blame on us none of us wanted in the first place.

 

 

and most of the time, its typically one group of selfish players who are getting beat and cant stand it that go out of their way to whine about something until it gets changed so that they can win again, even though the majority of players in the game, pvp + pve included, don't want that change.

[Youngsoldier 282]

What about your server mates crying about mine doors a few years ago and how people were making fortifications with them that were "unraidable".

Now I can't cover a mine if it's more than 100 slope. I could sit here all day citing things that you guys screwed up for everyone, but instead I will stroke your ego and agree that PVPers have it all figured out...   

OT: Wurm has always been a joke in this regard. "Test everything for us.. we can't afford the time/expense to and we're not going to tell you how mechanics work at all... you must figure it out and then tell us what works and what's broke". And it's like this with everything, both PVP and PVE related.

The biggest surprise of my Wurm career was when the one dev (think it was Erik) posted numbers and such for sorcery crap. First time I had ever seen some solid info dropped. Wish they did that all the time, instead of giving us vague update logs in Rolftalk.

 

 

Surface mining and the mine doors got nerfed after Xallo and Nosyt as Mag champs decided to walk on my dirt walls and fell in a rock trench I mined for three weeks, they then died losing a champ life and next day NERF.

 

Funny cuz the nerf did nothing but screw people out of mine doors, you can still do the same set up I did it just takes more space, so the nerf was just to appease those two... lol....

 

True story... lol

Edited September 30, 2014 by Youngsoldier

[MetalDragon 1,630]

Who needs a mine entrance that's over 100 slope? I seriously hope you're trolling. Something like that is strait jacket worthy.

Not sure how long you've played or if you played Freedom, unfortunately Rolf didn't start creating 'player friendly' maps on his own until after Independence. This server tends to have accessible rock points well over 100 steep. Freedom require mine doors to protect their belongings while off-deed and using Houses/walls are a bad idea due to decay causing 'mine traps' where the tile border for the exit is blocked but you can fall in other ways.

[KunAlt 844]

I don't see how it impacts sitting on deed and imping needles and mallets all day at all. None of the PvP changes "severely" impact PvE in any remote may unless you actually enjoy shooting arrows at animals that don't even move when you're far enough away. Sorry, but if you're not qualified to suggest something you don't know anything about then that's just how it is. Don't get offended by me because of a solid fact that's out of my control. Freedom suggestions to PvP are what made mauls useless and got us in the mess it's in now anyway.

 

I´m not so old player, but i remember the good old times wen having a templar or a guard tower near was enough to keep your 0 fs unarmoured priest alive on deed unless a champ troll happens.

 

Now templars are just glorified lamp fillers, since just an old scorpion will chew it and spit the bones in a pile while waiting for a new templar to respawn.

 

Guard from towers are like snails in armour.

 

Oh yes and before some smart ass point it, I don´t really need a templar (fired mine long ago, and that one less silver you get from my pockets, thanks) and I don´t use guards anymore unless I´m totally bored fishing near the coast line and call guards to be chewed by sharks.

[Youngsoldier 282]

Not sure how long you've played or if you played Freedom, unfortunately Rolf didn't start creating 'player friendly' maps on his own until after Independence. This server tends to have accessible rock points well over 100 steep. Freedom require mine doors to protect their belongings while off-deed and using Houses/walls are a bad idea due to decay causing 'mine traps' where the tile border for the exit is blocked but you can fall in other ways.

 

It's horrible, the surface mining and mine door slope nerfs should be revoked. It literally does nothing for gameplay and was only added after two peoplel decided they were bad ass enough to walk on deed with templars and fall in a pit and die.

[As_I_Decay 1,592]

I like how PvPers are just given this judgement that we all have some sort of ego in regard to game balance. It really is hilarious the saltiness we get from people who are just simply clueless.

Okay, Mr. "You guys don't know anythng! You sit on deed and imp needles all day". Definitely no ego on your behalf.   

[Tpikol 1,057]

unless they separate the code and doesnt seem like thats going to happen,changes to pvp are very likely to screw over pve players,like they usually do.

 

seems like a pretty good reason to for pve player to give their opinions.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Tpikol

[Audrel 2,223]

That doesn't make any sense. Freedomers don't know jack about PvP and need to stay out of the threads regarding PvP tweaks. Bottom line.

[Klaa 4,872]

One doesnt have to know whats going on under the hood to know when your car doesnt run, and at each deeper "level" one can still diagnose issues without knowing the deeper details.

 

Players dont need to know the exact details of the fighting calculations and formulas used to provide feedback. For example, years ago archery was overpowered... BIG TIME. It was the beginning of the Goldv2 map in Wilds, BLers and other experienced pvpers were going about the usual business of building and gaining skills from scratch. There was even discovered a skill gain bug with archery where great gains could be made (patched); however, archery had long suffered a disdain from the experienced crowd: underpowered, easily deflected, etc. However, at some point archery had been significantly boosted...

 

Long story short a significant number of archers existed in JK, and the impact of archery quickly became apparent after a few pvp fights. Thus ensued a long period of rather vicious flame-warring in forums and eventual tweaks from Rolf (hell I was even accused of lying and faking logs to support the argument it was grossly OP'ed).

 

Funny part there is I never posted logs or declared kills much akin to the rest of LO.

 

Anyways, we didnt know the underlying workings persay. We could only guess, speculate, experiment, and observe. For that matter more is known or suspected regarding the codebase, than back in those days.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Klaa

[rosedragon 2,282]

I don't have opinions on balancing as I'm not familiar with other priests than Fo and Libila, and even further have poor knowledge of their uses (except libila) in pvp.

 

It is often too, by default, you don't want your side get nerfed even in the good will of balancing.  And I'm not innocent on this, if I get an update that makes my life easier I'm glad, if an update, regardless it is intention, makes my life harder, I'm upset. Maybe if devs doesn't keep testing on the total opposite side of poles, the rage around those won't be so big.

[Rathgar 959]

We want the numbers ! !