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@AnarchistRise

Thing is - the only thing that was 'exploited' was the removal of wasted time chasing creatures around.

The method used did not have additional skill gains, these gains were equal to what you would receive doing it the lets say 'legitimate' way.

By removing wasted time chasing a mob around, you increase the skill per hour in which you can gain skill. This is why I DISAGREE with the nerf or fix provided today as it is still possible to do. Unless the Developers expect players to skill this way in future in which keep it as is.

You can literally achieve the same skill by leading masses of creatures to a central location, turning on sleep bonus and firing away. This is how I skilled my own archery in the past. Rounded up large amounts of cattle and horses and dropped them off in the middle of a steppe in which I turned on sleep bonus.

Archery uses consumables too, should developers decide to bring down the skill nerfer on those who used this method, I would expect replacement arrows spend using a 'creative' method of skilling and sleep powders invested as there was no exploited gains, just a smart way of saving time.

There are people who have shot up towards 70,000 arrows, I'd be pretty bummed if all those broken arrows went to waste due to an unintended creative way of gaining skill.

Edit: 100,000 was a bit of over exaggeration

Edited by MetalDragon

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Haters gonna hate, whiners gonna whine, just keep doing what's best for the game and they will eventually shut up. ;)

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Haters gonna hate, whiners gonna whine, just keep doing what's best for the game and they will eventually shut up. ;)

Shut up as in not enough around to care to voice any dissent?

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It's because many Black Legion members on Chaos ranted so much, so often about poor game mechanics and unfairness that the developers were mislead into thinking what they were saying was true.

These poor changes were a result of their constant complaints after their numerous defeats in pvp.

The one time they did a kill, they didn't get loot because the players res stone worked. BL blamed it on mag res even though the player wasn't a priest and thus began their campaign to push for unpopular changes that only favour themselves.

They're fighting MR on chaos, a kingdom with 5x as many active PVPers as the entire BL kingdom, and controlling half the chaos map. It's not unbalanced, MR are just a far stronger kingdom than BL. BL also lack the resources and PVP experience as the majority of MR's fighting force.

MR's drake fighter with glimmer weapon vs. BL's plate wearer with iron longsword. Guess who wins?

Some of these changes are ridiculous.

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Wait are people upset about the res stone change???? A few years ago if people remember res stones were changed to 25%, I'm not even sure why it was changed back. I don't think too many were upset then....

In fact I don't think there was an update reverting that change either. So its likely that change was bugged in the first place. Be happy its better than 25%...

Edited by MetalDragon

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Never thought I'd see the day of MR being trolled by BL :P

Basically agreed with everyone especially Miniroll, terrible stuff all round. It is still a mystery , the source of these random changes. We've always known Rolf doesn't play the game so relies on outside input to judge what needs to be done. Where it's coming from...mm..that committee thing up and running? We never heard more about it.

Priorities:

Undo archery penalties. Only serves as an annoyance to all. People won't do naked archery. Youll never force people to wear studded. Sorry.

Undo archery and bc nerf. It was the ONLY way to gain bc for some priests and the best way for everyone else. Same ole wurm nerf method here. Look at md's post.

Ensure you can lead a pet and a horse.

Fix bugs Miniroll mentioned.

Finish bridge code.

Edited by Derp
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Uhhh no. Personal buff spells (Oakshell, Hellstrength, etc.) are casted before combat and therefore don't need a cooldown to prevent spamming. I think instead of only increasing WL direct target spell damage, BL should be nerfed to be similar to WL - this isn't WoW, spells aren't primary weapons. Smite change is useless because no one is going to use a 30 second cast in PvP anyway. If you can get that cast off, then you could have killed the guy without spells twice as fast. The same goes for genesis (may as well remove cooldown, its PvP use isn't used) and tornado. In addition, a chance on a five second stun won't make the 30 second timer worth it when a 5 second shield bash timer can get a 10 second stun, as well as the fact that the center being the caster gives everyone time to get away (as if they wouldn't just interrupt the 30 second cast). Nolocate really shouldn't have been expanded. Now it needs a nerf due to giving a 100% chance to block locates if casted on self instead of a ring. Locate soul should be given to Vynora and Libila. Vynora is now becoming less useful on the battlefield.


 


IMPORTANT SKILLGAIN CHANGES: Reliable sources say that archery, its subskills, and its stat gains have been reduced by roughly 60%. This is absolutely absurd. Archery is the single most widely used method for raising body control to 21 by newbies, as well as being the single most important combat stat. You have now created a HUGE gap between older and newer players that can't even be closed with hard work. To those who think that archery skillgain is fast: the skill itself is the fastest in the game, but try factoring in the time it takes to make arrows. The same goes for HFC (don't nerf this too).


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@AnarchistRise

Thing is - the only thing that was 'exploited' was the removal of wasted time chasing creatures around.

The method used did not have additional skill gains, these gains were equal to what you would receive doing it the lets say 'legitimate' way.

By removing wasted time chasing a mob around, you increase the skill per hour in which you can gain skill. This is why I DISAGREE with the nerf or fix provided today as it is still possible to do. Unless the Developers expect players to skill this way in future in which keep it as is.

You can literally achieve the same skill by leading masses of creatures to a central location, turning on sleep bonus and firing away. This is how I skilled my own archery in the past. Rounded up large amounts of cattle and horses and dropped them off in the middle of a steppe in which I turned on sleep bonus.

Archery uses consumables too, should developers decide to bring down the skill nerfer on those who used this method, I would expect replacement arrows spend using a 'creative' method of skilling and sleep powders invested as there was no exploited gains, just a smart way of saving time.

There are people who have shot up towards 70,000 arrows, I'd be pretty bummed if all those broken arrows went to waste due to an unintended creative way of gaining skill.

Edit: 100,000 was a bit of over exaggeration

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mag priest get something for free while everyone else has to pay. where is your whine now Black Legion


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Time for me to get used to mycelium i gues if these changes remain as bl priests are now better then all the wl priests combined.


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No, unintended =/= exploit. Many features are unintended, but the GMs will only ban for exploiting if the feature was actually a bug, not just a design oversight (traders, dirt walls, pre-Sparta safe mines, etc.).


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mag priest get something for free while everyone else has to pay. where is your whine now Black Legion

Edited by Derp

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It still is a bit OP to give something to one group that everyone else has to pay extra for. Regardless, this new system needs a LOT of work still.


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The only person who actually uses chain as a mag priest is the almighty Dervish, yet he still has to take off his Great Helm...


And If you don't wear a great helm/basinet you will be dead, dead as .


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It still is a bit OP to give something to one group that everyone else has to pay extra for. Regardless, this new system needs a LOT of work still.

Edited by McDaniel
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Shooting about 10 tiles away at night with 99 archery, 91 long bow and a 90ql 83nimble bow. Red is miss/fail, blue is hit. Aiming at face.


Plate:

 
[21:06:54] You start aiming at Gary.
[21:06:54] The dusk makes it harder to get a clear view of Gary.
[21:06:59] You let the arrow fly.
[21:07:00] Your arrow glances off Gary's shield.
[21:07:24] You start aiming at Gary.
[21:07:24] The dusk makes it harder to get a clear view of Gary.
[21:07:28] Your armour disturbs you.
[21:07:44] You start aiming at Gary.
[21:07:44] The dusk makes it harder to get a clear view of Gary.
[21:07:48] You let the arrow fly.
[21:07:49] Your arrow glances off Gary's armour.
[21:08:18] You start aiming at Gary.
[21:08:18] The dusk makes it harder to get a clear view of Gary.
[21:08:22] Your armour disturbs you.
[21:08:27] You start aiming at Gary.
[21:08:27] The dusk makes it harder to get a clear view of Gary.
[21:08:31] Your armour disturbs you.
[21:08:40] You start aiming at Gary.
[21:08:40] The dusk makes it harder to get a clear view of Gary.
[21:08:44] You let the arrow fly.
[21:08:47] You start aiming at Gary.
[21:08:47] The dusk makes it harder to get a clear view of Gary.
[21:08:51] Your armour disturbs you.
[21:08:55] You start aiming at Gary.
[21:08:55] The dusk makes it harder to get a clear view of Gary.
[21:08:59] You let the arrow fly.
[21:09:00] Your arrow glances off Gary's shield.
[21:09:03] You start aiming at Gary.
[21:09:03] The dusk makes it harder to get a clear view of Gary.
[21:09:07] Your armour disturbs you.
[21:09:13] You start aiming at Gary.
[21:09:13] The dusk makes it harder to get a clear view of Gary.
[21:09:17] Your armour disturbs you.
[21:09:26] You start aiming at Gary.
[21:09:26] The dusk makes it harder to get a clear view of Gary.
[21:09:30] You let the arrow fly.
[21:09:34] You start aiming at Gary.
[21:09:34] The dusk makes it harder to get a clear view of Gary.
[21:09:38] Your armour disturbs you.
[21:09:41] You start aiming at Gary.
[21:09:41] The dusk makes it harder to get a clear view of Gary.
[21:09:45] Your armour disturbs you. 


Armor entirely removed:

 
[21:09:47] You start aiming at Gary.
[21:09:47] The dusk makes it harder to get a clear view of Gary.
[21:09:51] You let the arrow fly.
[21:09:52] Your arrow glances off Gary's shield.
[21:11:00] You start aiming at Gary.
[21:11:00] The dusk makes it harder to get a clear view of Gary.
[21:11:04] You let the arrow fly.
[21:11:09] You start aiming at Gary.
[21:11:09] The dusk makes it harder to get a clear view of Gary.
[21:11:13] You let the arrow fly.
[21:11:16] You start aiming at Gary.
[21:11:16] The dusk makes it harder to get a clear view of Gary.
[21:11:20] You let the arrow fly.
[21:11:26] You start aiming at Gary.
[21:11:26] The dusk makes it harder to get a clear view of Gary.
[21:11:30] You let the arrow fly.


=/ not a huge sample size but...

Edited by Aflacduck
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before the change mag priest still payed for their res stone. with this change they won't, since the extra payed for restone has no use anymore

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well time to join Demondan and priest as BL cos there is no other decent option. Priests , as other people have suggested, should not be a necessity for pvp but a nice addition. Atm to counter BL priests you have to have a lot of wl priests or just stay at home basically. No wonder only BL are playing Elevation currently. Also revert archery armor and BC nerfs.


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Ehh revert bc gains but fix the exploits:


 


No saddles on horses to stop them moving so you can just non-stop shoot + heal them on an alt.


No zombie trolls, which you can just shoot without them moving while healing on an alt.


No oakshell on animals to raise their defense without giving any glance rate.


Remove archery/control gains for shootings alts/other players.


Remove archery/control gains for shooting any animal lead by another player.


Remove archery/control gains for shooting animals in a pen (if you ride a horse right into the corner of a pen, it won't move when you shoot it).


 


Body control needs to be good from archery because you spend a hell of a lot of time making arrows and finding animals to hunt. But you just gotta stop allowing people easy ways to raise the skill. 

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all those late nights i spent taking notes from MR on  how to forum pvp have really paid off. Like they always say "if you can't beat 'em, join em!" 


Edited by Hogwash

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