Trader Factors

[4neofclubs 97]

So lately Ive been seeing major differences between the income my trader is getting over my friends traders on the same server.  After discussing it we are virtually doing the same thing and I can not come up with a reason for such a difference.  I was hoping someone else might have some insight on what would/could cause this. Any factors in this is greatly appreciated, even if its speculation I would enjoy the discussion. Thanks

[Kegan 3,926]

he has changed something for sure two of my three traders had less than 2s on them

 

Edit: Well he took the traders out of Xanadu but where is the new system for money recirculation that they talked about? If they are not going to do something to recirculate coins then they should lower upkeep or something. We are paying for premium and upkeep seems like a lot now with the way traders are working. I know i am doing okay with buying and selling stuff now but as time goes on and more and more players lose income over the traders the economy is going to get real tight i think. 

Edited September 7, 2014 by Kegan

[Atlas 363]

I suspect there was a ninja nerf to traders at the same time Xanadu was released and some other variables are now tied to trader output. Such factors as: if the trader is on deed, size or upkeep cost of deed, number of villagers, etc...

Overall, the total amount output from all traders has been reduced while increasing the amount one can get from selling to a token (while this total aggregate amount of the two remains the same)

As traders are not allowed on Xanadu I believe this is foreshadowing future design intent that traders will not be allowed on any new servers and will continue to be nerfed down to an insignificant monthly output. At that point, they would be removed/remade and the uproar from the player base will be significantly less than simply stopping them today

please note this is all speculation

Edited September 7, 2014 by Atlas

[froggy25 81]

My guess is the Xanadu trader code infected teh rest of teh world, meaning u get more if more premium players trade with your trader.

Just a guess.

I have a trader on celeb and i use a free alt to drain her. Got about 50c last month.

[Kegan 3,926]

Well there was a few suggestions going around last time i do have to say that i don't think it has to do with premium characters. My free player runs all three of my traders on deliverance and my main deed had 7s on it and the two small ones had less than 2s so far this month.  I will just list what i know about mine so we can compare information.  

 

• The main deed i have has all the traders as members of it so i don't think it has anything to do with how many members you have.
  
• The three deeds are all in the same area 63 tiles apart 
  
• I traded with the 7s trader maybe 3-4 times and drained it once in the middle of the month to pay for an item i bought. (f2p)
  
• The side traders never were traded with during the month till i checked them tonight
  
• The 7s trader is on the main deed that all the traders are a member of
  
• The 7s trader has more high value items on it than the side deeds (the side traders are about 2 months old)
  
• The main deed had members logged on and off all month long (mostly F2P, premium 1 or 2 times)
  
• The side deeds had no members on most of the month (all f2p)
  
• Last month they all were about the same in payouts this is the first month with extreme variances 
  
• The main deed has always been a little better in payouts
  
• All the deeds are 1s upkeep but the main deed is max 1s and the side deeds are 11x11
  

 

Well this is all i can think about right now maybe if we all list what we know we might see a pattern emerge. 

Edited September 7, 2014 by Kegan

[joedobo 1,187]

Old traders speculation-

• Might be that if you only got expensive stuff for the envoy to buy it ends up spending more. My traders have nothing but trinkets and cordage ropes.
  
• We know the Dev's talked about adding in factors that tie trader payouts to how many unique premium toons trade with it. Does trade mean both a buy and sell?
  
• We have seen players say tieing trader payouts to deed size >>P2W FTW, witness the power if my deep pockets!<< is a good idea.
  
• Perhaps more premium members, more money distributed?
  

 

I haven't drained the Xana Xrock traders for at least a week but the the 70 some odd silver (not joking around, where times when I get 5 silver in a day) I pulled off them makes me believe it hadn't change at all for the time I was draining them.

[Kegan 3,926]

Another interesting thing seems my trader pool in my area only recycles 4x 20 silver coins. I named them 1-4 and everytime i trade the two traders in my area i tested it gave me back one of the four coins. I tried it with 5s coins and i got up to 25 i think before i quit trying to see how many it had not sure what that means but thought it was interesting and wanted to post it, lol 

 

Edit: Seems it was the same way with the 20s coins in and out of my bank too. I guess Deliverance only has 4x 20s coins on the server?  idk 

Edited September 7, 2014 by Kegan

[Gavin 971]

I'm 100% sure that it's been changed so that traders near large deeds get better results than ones out in the forest; I have noticed this trend across multiple servers and across a large sample size.

 

For example as a sample of results from traders on Chaos; the first ones are near Kyara (s130 deed)

11.2s
11.96s
11.25s
10.8s
20.89s

 

But out in the middle of the forest:

1.45s
3.63s
3.23s
3.61s
2.30s
2.9s
0.27s (not a typo - this one is actually on a mountain so chances are noone walked in it's local)
1.8s
2.6s

Edited September 7, 2014 by Gavin

[Kegan 3,926]

I'm 100% sure that it's been changed so that traders near large deeds get better results than ones out in the forest; I have noticed this trend across multiple servers and across a large sample size.

 

Well chaos was going to be changed to that it was announced but it seems like that code must have been placed on all the traders on the PvE servers too.  I think on chaos it was by the 'territory" or i guess you guys call it influence?  I am not sure how this would work on pve freedom i guess it is all under one influence so would go by deed size..idk Is there any way you can get a reading on a pve server or is that skill just usable on pvp?

 

I guess i need to expand my smaller deeds to full size 1s deeds and not minimum sized ones or maybe even build a guard tower by them..idk, lol

Edited September 7, 2014 by Kegan

[Nomadikhan 2,196]

It's almost as if they're making micro-changes here and there in some secretive attempt to phase traders out without the majority of wurm's population noticing enough to upset them. Almost like, "Well this isn't working as well as it was so I just won't buy anymore traders.", enough players doing that and traders phase themselves out.

I have 4 pumping out what used to take 1-2. Hopefully it won't get ninja nerfed much more because it's quite silly as it stands now.

[Kegan 3,926]

Well i am all for changing how they work or even going to a new system but when you can not even earn 1s in a month there is something wrong. You should be able to earn at least 3-4s off one or really there is no point in having them...but i guess that might be what they are going for. 

 

If they want to take them out then take them out but lower the upkeep or something as compensation.

[KanePT 699]

All i can tell you is that ratio, deed size, number of villagers, and even active people around don't seem to be determining factors for this.

In July i got 2s on my main deed (which has about 5 citizens, 2 of each constantly active) and got 10 on a deed i bought from a neighbor, which is just by my deed (the trader is at the minimum 63 tiles away), and only has the mayor as citizen.

My main deed is also bigger, the ratio was just about the same (0.14 and 0.17), both deeds have the same amount of upkeep (in days, which means that my main deed has more money in it),

[Sklo:D 2,210]

Maybe it is just random?

[Torgrim 403]

mine seems very random, I get from 0 - 4s per trader on Deli

[Old_Lando 178]

I saw a lot of one and two silver traders over the last month. But one of the traders on an off deed had 15s.  Definitely an atypical month.  Ended up collapsing all my larger deeds just can't support them at this rate.  Not sure if it's intended or not but it's killing my large deeds and the small trader deeds are at least paying for themselves which seem kinda counter productive.

[Lithien 268]

It has always been random, and it still is - but the difference seems more noticable these days. Mostly since so many are giving 2s or less now. All that seems to have changed is the Kings coffers on all servers (except for Xanadu) got severely diminished after the release of Xanadu and the disbanding of a huge amount of deeds. That is exactly what I suspected to happen, so no surprise there, but my biggest issue with this is the lack of silvers circulating now, and the severe hits the markets have taken because of it. Even bricks, mortars and dirt are being sold at huge discounts compared to before Xanadu, and these used to be the items that sold consistently well at almost fixed prices. And to me it seems not to be due to increase in sellers, but lack of buyers. That I didn't expect, but Rolf also said they were working on other means of circulating the silvers, and for some reason I expected him to implement those changes when he made Xanadu without player placed traders, and figured those would make up for the lack of traders. 

 

EDIT: By random (before and now) I mean I can't find any correlation between size of deed, number of villagers, placement of deed, interaction with premium players... and whatever else I can think of to compare is pointless, as it varies which deed is the "lucky" deed this month, and which ones are at the loosing end of the distribution.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Lithien

[Othob Rithol 700]

This sounds like an improvement to me. Maybe Nomadikhan is correct and alterations are being made to take a middle road between trader drainer's ideal (let the money flow) and players like me (end it). Unreliable enough to deter this meta, but enough to not shaft people that spent their money on them prior to the changes. 

Edited September 8, 2014 by Othob Rithol

[Torgrim 403]

The situation is pretty sad really. We all would like to be able to buy/sell itmes to eachother, making enough to at least pay for deeds. That has been possible up until now with the old trader system. It was never really fair, but it worked, money was circulating back to the players (at least to some) and enough of it to pay for deeds and to be able to buy things from others without having to buy new silver in the shop. 

 

Now when the old servers are mostly just old trader deeds, of course those traders are not getting much money because very few players are spending anything on those servers. On Xanadu you need to have an alt sitting on starter deed trying to milk a trader to get anything from the kings coffers, I think most people don't bother with that since it's just silly. Our old trader investments are worth pretty much nothing, few people actually makes any money on them currently. So, them sum of it all is that Wurm has gotten alot more expensive to play if you want to maintain your old playstyle, this forces players to disband or make their deeds smaller. 

 

Maybe if you look at Xanadu one positive thing is that deeds in general will be smaller becuase of the deed upkeep cost. Makes the server less urbanized. But since there is no recirculation it leads to lower prices becuase people don't have any money. 16 euro for 10s in the shop, what do I get for that really? A good ql nice enchanted tool 2-3s, 5 euro, for one item.. I don't think so.. not unless I can earn that money in game somehow. There is already subscription cost, for multiple accounts, that becomes a lot of money per month for a game.

 

 Sorry about tha rant ...  

[KanePT 699]

Lol Togrim, you got a nice point, the largest server where people expected to have huge deeds is now getting to be full of small ones . Kinda ironic.

[Gavin 971]

Now when the old servers are mostly just old trader deeds, of course those traders are not getting much money because very few players are spending anything on those servers. On Xanadu you need to have an alt sitting on starter deed trying to milk a trader to get anything from the kings coffers, I think most people don't bother with that since it's just silly. Our old trader investments are worth pretty much nothing, few people actually makes any money on them currently.

 

Only 50% of the silver recycled through various moneysinks actually stays on the server you spend it on; the rest heads to other servers; with the amount recycled being split evenly across all the other servers - so the less people playing on your server (or actively draining traders anyway) the higher the payouts.

 

Payouts still seem fine to me; I track it all in a spreadsheet and August was the best month in 9 months for me; I'm still getting somewhere around 7.5s per trader on Chaos and around 5-6s on Deli Indy Exo etc.

[Aetherwalker 1,863]

You cannot imagine how much joy it gives me to see threads like this, you really can't

[Ayes 3,715]

Somehow the post title reminds me of that TV show with the Fear contained within it. Which one tho? That, this, or both?

 

None of the above perhaps? Naw.

 

=Ayes=

[joedobo 1,187]

curious about something.

 

Instead of doing sudden and noticeable changes, has Wurm chosen to make gradual changes.

 

As we've seen before when subjects come up about removing or making significant changes to traders everyone demands a refund. What happens if Wurm does small yet gradual changes so over time making the payouts dwindle. Will people just give up on them because its not worth it anymore?

 

I've been holding onto 3 trader deeds on Deli mostly in hopes of some kind of refund. But the payouts are getting so small its almost to the point where I disband them and give up.

 

I wonder if this was Wurm's plan all along?

[Ayes 3,715]

curious about something.

Instead of doing sudden and noticeable changes, has Wurm chosen to make gradual changes.

As we've seen before when subjects come up about removing or making significant changes to traders everyone demands a refund. What happens if Wurm does small yet gradual changes so over time making the payouts dwindle. Will people just give up on them because its not worth it anymore?

I've been holding onto 3 trader deeds on Deli mostly in hopes of some kind of refund. But the payouts are getting so small its almost to the point where I disband them and give up.

 

I wonder if this was Wurm's plan all along?

[Lily 90]

I probably shouldn't say this as I have friends who use traders, but I'll be glad to see the back of them. They just seemed to be a way for 'in the know' players to game the system while your average casual player pays for deed upkeep out of pocket.