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Othob Rithol

Player Made Republics (WIP) Please Contribute

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This is an idea I have been tossing around in my head ever since PMKs were being discussed. I had a very fine draft, but misplaced it. As a result this is a very loose framework with many missing pieces. I'm posting this as is, with the intention of adding more over time as an evolving process with input from other players. 


 


I'd like to request that pure 100% pvp players stay out of this unless you plan to constructively add input. 


 


Player made republics (PMRs) would be the non-pvp equivalent of PMKs for the rest of the freedom cluster and would serve roughly same function but tailored to the forms and needs of non-pvp game play. Essentially their purpose would be to facilitate larger, more robust social groups and to encourage the creation of a group that has more longevity than a single large deed or cadre of individual players could provide.


 


Most non-pvp large social groups revolve around one of two models. 


  • The original was the 'big deed' which required one or a few big spenders to own everything. Non-owners had very limited rights and influence as owners protected their investment from thieves and griefers. Many newcomers are unwilling to join a deed because of the lack of freedom and for fear of oppression. Eventually, the best move off to their own deeds or the owners become inactive and the community collapses.
  • The alliance system allowed a new model where people that left the main deed to form their own deeds could still stay linked with a central chat and had some limited extra permissions. It also allowed coalitions of independent deeds to join up for social interaction.  Unfortunately, the permission controls were less than ideal and perimeters were a problem. The desire to maintain an area of open country kept many perimeters large and thus tightly held alliances were very spread out. Some groups formed their own alliance (of their many satellite deeds) to allow access for themselves but would not join others for security reasons.

My idea for a PMR would be centered around combining the best and avoiding the worst of the above. It would try to be more than durable any single deed or player, try to maximize the liberty of as many as possible all while encouraging players to settle in close proximity to maximize interaction. It would also open up a potentially exciting new social gaming experience with internal politics, factions and intrigues as Republics grow and age.


 


And just like PMKs, Republics would get their own artwork.


 


Founding the Republic:


  1. Just like a PMK it starts with a declaration in front of a minimum crowd in local.
  2. Each person nearby gets a pop-up asking them if they wish to pledge to the Republic and how much.
  3. If the total pledged is over 1G, the monies are removed from the player's accounts, the "Object is placed (see below) and the Player that initiated the action is made "Doge" (see below).
  4. Anyone that contributed more than 5s can opt to automatically be a member of the republic.
  5. Any deed held by a member joins the Republic. Citizens of those deeds automatically become members of the Republic.

The Republic "Object": needs a name: PMRs would be founded around a central non-deed structure. 


  • Can not be placed on a deed or be deeded over. 
  • It would serve as a respawn point for members of the Republic.
  • It would create a "Republic" channel that all members or the republic (those granted or deeds that joined) would have access.
  • It would also project a 'republic perimeter'.
  • At the object any player that is not a member of another republic can add their name to a list of potential candidates for joining.

The Republic Perimeter: This functions somewhat differently from normal deed perimeter. The idea here is to encourage players to cluster their deeds inside one shared perimeter and to allow larger groups of players blanket control over a block of land around them, rather than a patchwork of perimeters from deeds.


  • It overlaps all Republic deeds and perimeters.
  • It continues to prevent deed placement (see below) and block non-member perimeters.
  • Its expansion is blocked by non-member deeds and their perimeters.
  • It is configurable in size on each cardinal direction from the Object.
  • Paid for out of the Republic Coffers. Ideally tiles paid for by member deeds would not be charged to the Republic.

What you lose by joining:


  • Under default settings, if part of your deed or perimeter overlaps with the republic perimeter you would not be able to expand your deed or perimeter beyond its current size without consent of the republic. Reducing its size is allowed, but you forfeit the right to expand back to the original size later without consent. The idea here is to avoid perimeter wars within the republic.

The Republic Government:  Similar to historical republics, PMRs would be ruled by a minority. The primary mechanism is 'by decree' where a member proposes a change in settings, there is a voting period, and the result is automatic. One of two systems to distribute votes could be adopted:


  1. Democracy : Each deed owner and (anyone granted the right to vote) each has one vote.
  2. Plutocracy (default) :  Any member of the Republic can donate to the Republic Upkeep and has a vote proportionate to their contribution to their current coffers. Both minimums and maximums per account can be set by decree. Upkeep from the republic is taken from all contributors equally, so share decreases over time without additional input. Vote sizes would be available information in some way, perhaps as a list in the voting interface.

Any member (even those that can't vote) can submit a motion for deliberation. Voters can cast their vote at any republic deed token or at the republic token. Votes last a week during which players can change their vote. Simple majority of cast votes wins.


 


Possible Decrees: It is the intention that every setting and option for Republics can be set by decree. Each member can have as single submission for vote at a time but can withdraw or change it at will. Officers can have two.


 


 Those marked with R can be revoked by decree as well. Those marked can be set for fast resolution by the Doge.


 


Some would create blanket rules for the entire Republic.


  • Grant Universal Suffrage R: All citizens of all deeds in the republic automatically get to vote.
  • Change form to a Democracy/Plutocracy: This swaps the system of vote distribution between the two options.
  • Set Village Tax to %: A default of zero, this increases all member deed's upkeeps by the %, with the extra going to the Republic's coffers. Deedholder's get credit for all monies taxed as contributions if the republic is a Plutocracy. Possible values between 0 and 5?
  • Disallow Village Perimeters in the Republic R : An option for the more dominant republics, this suppresses all deed perimeters to their default 5 tiles within the Republic. Member deeds outside the Republic's borders are not affected.
  • Set vote cap to %: For Plutocracies, this caps the influence any given player can have regardless of their contributions. Possible values 1% to 20%, with 20% being the default?
  • Change the name of the Republic to ______:  Generates a server wide event message.
  • Set <non-member> to KOS across the Republic: R F
  • ?

Some would create or assign special officer roles and titles to allow specific players to perform special duties.


  • Grant <member> Surveyor: R F This player would be allowed to start the deed placement dialog inside the Republic's Borders. and set all the necessary features, but hand off or designate the actual deed to another member of the republic. This officer position would allow the Republic greater control and flexibility in allowing its members to place deeds without voting.
  • Grant <member> Doge: R This sets the 'leader' of the PMR. the leader's primary mechanical function is to allow bursts of activity in the government. Many proposals (marked (F) ) the Doge  can set to take a single day instead of the normal week. Some important proposals can not be set for rapid voting.
  • ?

Some would allow members specific permissions, often a one-time event.


  • Allow <member> to place a deed. F Normally the republic perimeter would prevent deed placement. This gives the named member the right to place a single deed. Expires after one week.
  • Allow <deed> to resize. F One time. Expires after one week. Essentially it allows the deed tool to ignore the republic perimeter during a single resize session.
  • Grant <member> a boon of a silver coin. Used as reward system for good citizens, by vote a small amount can be given from the coffers to a member.
  • ?
Edited by Othob Rithol
  • Like 2

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Looks like fun, I'm partial to the name "State" instead of republic though :P


 


+1


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I like the idea of it, heck our alliance on cele would have the numbers to form it more then likely.

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seems to me your wanting to be able to make a alliance for a gold when they are free right now. also what happens when one of the villages wants out? also why not fix the perceived issues with alliance instead of trying to get another thing implemented that would most likely be broken


Edited by nosfirebird

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While I like the idea od a form of organization better than alliances, I think this won't work for a few reasons:

1. This seem to fit only neighboring deeds; what if a friend lives far away; whaf if there is one deed between us?

2. What if a deed from within the republic perimeter wants out?

3. Most deeds, even neighbors, wouldn't fit in a rectangular model.

It would really fit only a few isolated cases, while offering even less flexibility compared with slliances.

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Without PvP it's impossible to spread a PMR.


 


Someone just comes along and puts down a deed on each edge and you're stuck.


 


As nosfirebird said already, if someone wants out of the PMR what happens? You can't expect the only way out to be to just abandon your deed. At the same time you can't have a deed within the republic area.


 


Much easier solution would be to just fix/improve alliance options.


Edited by Outlaw

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Yes, the opting out part is a sticker. Ideally, I think they should be able to leave if they want, but maybe the Republic can then ignore them for its own perimeter expansion. As in, I leave the republic so my perimeter as it was set gets enforced and I have 5 tiles around me but I am totally surrounded by thre republic and therefore can't expand. The republic can ignore my existence when expanding past me, assuming I was already inside it.


 


As for remote deeds, they would function exactly the same as they do now, with their own perimeter etc. They would be subject to Republic rules and participate in the government however. The deeds of the republic don't have to be inside the perimeter created by the central object. 


 


Another model for the perimeter might be some sort of flood-fill mechanism like border push. You set the desired # of tiles claimed and the game just starts filling them in from the center until you run out. that would allow it to operate in less than ideal terrain and mixed with non-member deeds.


 


As to expansion - yes, its totally intentional that you can't just border push out into the world. If you want to expand past a neighbor, you need to convince the neighbor to join.


Edited by Othob Rithol

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sounds like an overly elaborate solution to a trivial problem that would be barely used and poorly implemented


 


as said before, what about deeds who want out? 


 


what about deeds that don't join, but happen to be on the border or even within the intended placement of the republic?


 


this just seems like a shoddy attempt to tie up even more land and make it harder to found deeds too. who exactly benefits from this? from what i've seen so far, it seems to be primarily deed holders, who will just swallow up even more land under this system. 


 


-1


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The good:


 


probably the biggest +1 i've ever given in my wurm history


 


The bad:


 


mechanics seem complicated and wurm staff has issues/lacks motivation implementing even simple solutions - constructive criticism: i'd say try to take some of the existing mechanics and introduce as little "new"code as possible


 


AND


 


the republic perimeter and the spread of the republic seems vague.....perhaps could be also based on guard towers? and when 2 neighboring republics 'meet' the borders can be disputed via the economic power of the republics - just throwing ideas out there :) )


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Without PvP the tower push seems very very exploitable. But a border push mechanism based on coffers might work. Maybe there could be a setting that aggressively pushes against other republics but eats upkeep faster.


 


The reason it seems sort of half baked and cobbled together is trying to recycle as much existing code/mechanics as possible. The lion share of development would of course be the complex governmental forms with all the possible decrees ad resolutions.


Edited by Othob Rithol

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sorry but this would never be implemented nor used just too much potential for griefing what stops a group of players from dropping a pmr on top of abunch of random deeds to stop them expanding and to seal them in and not let them exit since it would turn into the republic lands


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Plus the taxation and government system seems dodgy in that it's more complex than needed.


 


To many people, why should a gold be paid to create something which essentially is a slightly stronger form of alliance in which political power will inevitably be based upon how much money the deedholders are willing to spend, with most citizens being divorced from a system they have little interest in maintaining or supporting. (If I don't own a deed, why should I care about the wellbeing of the republic?)


 


How they will disband by the way? Would it be the same as a PMK whereby its the last deed to disband ends it? Can they be internally disbanded by a vote? It seems far too open to abuse, provides barely any benefit for anybody but the larger deed holders, and will just waste land. 


 


It will take months if not years to program this in, time that would be better spent on modifying the alliance system instead of a shoddy moneysink.


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 A PMK for the sake of having custom tabards, wagons, flags etc. would be an approach I'd get on board with, as I imagine others would by the expressed interest in previous threads and topics.


 


As new servers have been released old friends are still in the same alliances but not close by on newer maps, so your current PMK has nothing to really offer to the alliance I belong to, dropping deeds after work has been put in would be a huge turn off just for the sake of making the Republic or whatever remotely attractive.


 


 I'm also unsure how many unforeseen bugs would occur with an attempt to program all the things your asking for, I'm not certain if the deeds being close by is a requirement for current PMK's, but things seem to work best ( for better or worse ) if we just use things already programmed and proven to work.  


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I'd rather see some sort of "chat group" for specific subjects. I don't want to give people I barely know any access to my deed, and I want to be able to join as many as these "chat groups" as I want. An example of one of these groups could be "animal raisers" or "dragon chasers" etc. Or it could even be subjects not even related to Wurm, such as a group to discuss automobile GPS devices. This is a nice way to promote social interaction, and keeps the general chats free from subject-obsessed chat.


  • Like 1

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Othob, I can see that you have put a lot of thought into this and outlined it well. As an independent player I would never consider joining something like this, giving other players power over decisions that I might wish to make. Furthermore, I don't like to collaborate with other players to accomplish whatever I might like to do with my time spent in game. I will not even join others alliances as they are now, nor allow any others into my own.


 


So basically I would have no interest in this PMK system, or any other. As long as this does not effect my own game play as it currently stands, I have no objections to it.


 


=Ayes=


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I like kind of like the idea in general however I could see it being used to land grab/grief possibly.


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As to a landgrab, it'd be a rather costly way to do it. And for traders, I don't think they would operate any different, since the entire server is still just one kingdom.


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-1 honestly cant see the point of a kingdom in pve servers alliance and deed role options seem to work well enough to me (although an option in roles to add a single player would be handy).  


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