Cooldown discussion

[Corwen 164]

Genesis, no cool down.

[Libertha 145]

everything needs a rework, not a quick fix. There are many things about priests which are unfair, on all sides. so please do not go through with this, and think of an actual rework rather then tampering with it.

[Lulu 601]

Lets be honest here for a second.

 

People have moaned becasue they got munched after a Fo priest spammed LoF.

Rolfs first suggestion got shot down becasue Mags cant insta suck gems and have their passive (free res stone) bonus.

Now were onto putting cooldowns on certain spells and nerfing one or two sides again.

 

The system isn't so terrible at the moment like a lot of you suggest, yes it does need tweaking but its being looked at in completly wrong way.

 

ROLF< Constuctivley < Please could you stop going out on a whim to try and fix things that actually won't help and cause more problems further down the line.

 

Religion currently is unbalanced 3WL to 1BL God and IMO I believe the BL priests should have some edge over the WL priests, naturally. Not by a huge difference but something noticable and not neccessarily in the strength of a cast. Easy example is giving BL locate soul aswell.

 

Please Please look at doing a complete overhaul of the priesting system.

I haven't the first idea about how that shold be done, but it does need doing, No more bandaids.

 

Please and thank you

[demondan 1,865]

read mah suggestion kingen!

[Daolin 894]

Lets be honest here for a second.

 

People have moaned becasue they got munched after a Fo priest spammed LoF.

Rolfs first suggestion got shot down becasue Mags cant insta suck gems and have their passive (free res stone) bonus.

Now were onto putting cooldowns on certain spells and nerfing one or two sides again.

 

The system isn't so terrible at the moment like a lot of you suggest, yes it does need tweaking but its being looked at in completly wrong way.

 

ROLF< Constuctivley < Please could you stop going out on a whim to try and fix things that actually won't help and cause more problems further down the line.

 

Religion currently is unbalanced 3WL to 1BL God and IMO I believe the BL priests should have some edge over the WL priests, naturally. Not by a huge difference but something noticable and not neccessarily in the strength of a cast. Easy example is giving BL locate soul aswell.

 

Please Please look at doing a complete overhaul of the priesting system.

I haven't the first idea about how that shold be done, but it does need doing, No more bandaids.

 

Please and thank you

[Aum 771]

hey if you do fix stuff,

reveal creatures should be given to Fo!

[Lulu 601]

read mah suggestion kingen!

 

I tend to look over posts filled with hashtags and swag

[Fooligun 591]

I remember one time, fooli might remember, where i suggested a religion fix where you have a selection of points and at each tier you can choose a variety of spells that you wanted, but you only get a select amount of points after every 10 faith. So you could get LT but not coc or woa, but you can increase the utility of it. maybe you want light of fo with locate soul. It'll be a step in the right direction to fix the 3 WL gods to the 1 BL gods. Even after that i think cooldowns are necessary anyways soo.

[whykillme 1,621]

Lets be honest here for a second.

 

People have moaned becasue they got munched after a Fo priest spammed LoF.

Rolfs first suggestion got shot down becasue Mags cant insta suck gems and have their passive (free res stone) bonus.

Now were onto putting cooldowns on certain spells and nerfing one or two sides again.

 

[Radni 1,089]

I thought Rolf was asking for the opinions of all his customers? Or does chaos not matter?

He's asking for opinions on replacing cool downs, not how mag spells are OP.

Please, suggest some ideas other than OP OP OP NEEEERF, DONT NERF LIB.

[Pidgeoni 272]

Every fix helps, however small, if it is towards a specific direction.

A complete remake can happen step at a step, without resulting in a mess.

 

Priests are apparently intended to bring small bursts of utility to the PvP table, introducing tactical options rather than raw power (spell spamming).

Spamming is either one player casting repeatedly, or many players of the same kingdom casting together.

This discussion aims to fix this specific issue.

 

 

There is already an overheat feature, which could act as a global spell cooldown.

This would mean that a priest would only be able to contribute in a specific way each battle.

Choosing what spells to cast and in what order would be critical.

 

I propose that every single combat spell overheats the caster. While overheated, the caster will not be able to cast or link spells.

A status effect icon would appear, stating the duration of overheating. This could be 1 minute for single target spells or 5 minutes for area of effect spells as a start.

This addresses the problem of a single priest repeatedly casting spells.

 

I also propose that area of effect spells overheat nearby allies as well, for a reduced duration of 2 minutes.

This would stack with overheat from previous casts of his or others.

This addresses the problem of many priests spamming spells together.

 

Further balancing of overheat duration could be done for each spell at a later time or during testing.

The duration could depend on mind speed, cast power and soul stats.

 

 

If an idea like this was implemented, I'd expect to see the following effects on PvP, which I think would be for the better:

 

- Single priests would have to wait for the perfect casting moment, rather than spamming spells.

- Single priests would have to carefully chose which spell to cast.

- Priest groups would have to chose between casting many single target spells or one area of effect spell.

- Priest groups would have to organize their casting order for longer fights.

- Spells would be used at critical moments as tide-changers or finishing moves.

 

 

That said, there will still be issues in need of fixing. As a next move, I'd expect spells effects to be buffed a bit, gems to require a 10 second timer to drain and priest pets limiting spell casting.

 

Edit: guess the overheat could add to difficulty instead of plain disallowing casting of spells.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Pidgeoni

[Radni 1,089]

Every fix helps, however small, if it is towards a specific direction.

A complete remake can happen step at a step, without resulting in a mess.

Priests are apparently intended to bring small bursts of utility to the PvP table, introducing tactical options rather than raw power (spell spamming).

Spamming is either one player casting repeatedly, or many players of the same kingdom casting together.

This discussion aims to fix this specific issue.

There is already an overheat feature, which could act as a global spell cooldown.

This would mean that a priest would only be able to contribute in a specific way each battle.

Choosing what spells to cast and in what order would be critical.

I propose that every single combat spell overheats the caster. While overheated, the caster will not be able to cast or link spells.

A status effect icon would appear, stating the duration of overheating. This could be 1 minute for single target spells or 5 minutes for area of effect spells as a start.

This addresses the problem of a single priest repeatedly casting spells.

I also propose that area of effect spells overheat nearby allies as well, for a reduced duration of 2 minutes.

This would stack with overheat from previous casts of his or others.

This addresses the problem of many priests spamming spells together.

Further balancing of overheat duration could be done for each spell at a later time or during testing.

The duration could depend on mind speed, cast power and soul stats.

If an idea like this was implemented, I'd expect to see the following effects on PvP, which I think would be for the better:

- Single priests would have to wait for the perfect casting moment, rather than spamming spells.

- Single priests would have to carefully chose which spell to cast.

- Priest groups would have to chose between casting many single target spells or one area of effect spell.

- Priest groups would have to organize their casting order for longer fights.

- Spells would be used at critical moments as tide-changers or finishing moves.

That said, there will still be issues in need of fixing. As a next move, I'd expect spells effects to be buffed a bit, gems to require a 10 second timer to drain and priest pets limiting spell casting.

So much this. A priest should be a tactical job not a machine gun.

[KanePT 699]

- Single priests would have to wait for the perfect casting moment, rather than spamming spells.

- Single priests would have to carefully chose which spell to cast.

- Priest groups would have to chose between casting many single target spells or one area of effect spell.

- Priest groups would have to organize their casting order for longer fights.

- Spells would be used at critical moments as tide-changers or finishing moves.

Problem is given to the nature of Wurm combat, and the laggy nature of the servers, perfect timming actions won't work before a good overhaul of combat and server effectiveness.

Plus, its a MMO, you can't expect people to act on a hive mind, you can't really allow an individual's actions to undermine their team that much, specially with all the spy vs spy thing... I don't think that your suggestion is the best way to go about it.

 

I believe that the idea of having area-cooldowns on AoE spells, and reducing power of Single-target, and allow them to act as a alternative to archery is a good way to give priests some power in PvP.

 

That as a "bandaid" of sorts, and as a gateway into a full re-work of the whole system.

 

 

 

So much this. A priest should be a tactical job not a machine gun.

Sorry, but i'll have to hit you with the "Its a sandbox, your opinion shouldn't be constricting my options" hammer.

A priest should be as much of a tactical option as a catapult, a sword or a bow. Its imbalanced it needs balancing, but we can't disable options just because they affect someone's sense of aesthetics.

Edited August 26, 2014 by KanePT

[Radni 1,089]

Problem is given to the nature of Wurm combat, and the laggy nature of the servers, perfect timming actions won't work before a good overhaul of combat and server effectiveness.

Plus, its a MMO, you can't expect people to act on a hive mind, you can't really allow an individual's actions to undermine their team that much, specially with all the spy vs spy thing... I don't think that your suggestion is the best way to go about it.

I believe that the idea of having area-cooldowns on AoE spells, and reducing power of Single-target, and allow them to act as a alternative to archery is a good way to give priests some power in PvP.

That as a "bandaid" of sorts, and as a gateway into a full re-work of the whole system.

Sorry, but i'll have to hit you with the "Its a sandbox, your opinion shouldn't be constricting my options" hammer.

A priest should be as much of a tactical option as a catapult, a sword or a bow. Its imbalanced it needs balancing, but we can't disable options just because they affect someone's sense of aesthetics.

Yes but a priest should not be able to go BOOM BOOM BOOM and within a 20 seconds kill you instantly. That's just unfair. Edited August 26, 2014 by Radni

[KanePT 699]

Yes but a priest should not be able to go BOOM BOOM BOOM and within a 20 seconds kill you instantly. That's just unfair.

Yes. Thats why this topic exists, cause it needs balance.

But one thing is balance, another thing is what the other guy suggested, which basically means if you mange to infiltrate a kingdom with a priest. You cast 3-4 aoes onto the rear of your own army, or somewhere else that is harmless, and suddenly the whole kingdom is dead in the water.

[aamanus 1,488]

Per person cooldowns are fine. Shouldn't be gimped by having your AoE spells on cooldown just because an ally nearby casted a spell. If you have 20 people and can cast an AoE spell back to back, fair play. If you have one, you shouldn't be able to.

[Radni 1,089]

Yes. Thats why this topic exists, cause it needs balance.

But one thing is balance, another thing is what the other guy suggested, which basically means if you mange to infiltrate a kingdom with a priest. You cast 3-4 aoes onto the rear of your own army, or somewhere else that is harmless, and suddenly the whole kingdom is dead in the water.

I think it shouldn't effect your kingdom mates, cause like you say SPAI PRIESTS... Or just plain terds.

[Alyeska 2,621]

Light of Fo is too OP. Int the last fight we were trying to dispell the oakshell but the enemies just kept getting into a cave, then we tried to focus on the guy on plate but 2 champs were just sitting behind draining gems and casting LoF that FULLY HEALED the guy that was constant attacked by 3? ppl.

 

Maybe it's because there were 2 champs casting, perhaps that means that.........2 fo champs together should be able to keep a guy healed.. hmmm

 

Stop screwing around and trying to make fo even more useless in pvp, light of fo is the only damn thing thats actually useful in battle. If you gonna do that, you need to even it out and give some kind of offensive spell, every other priest has one. If that goes against lore, then so does making fo priests crippled healers.

 

 

And for the love of fo, make your dumb nerfs PvP only. Light of fo is used on the PvE servers to support unique fights, and usually there's only one or two priests there to cast. A cooldown would be devestating for more than just the PvP community.

[Alyeska 2,621]

hey if you do fix stuff,

reveal creatures should be given to Fo!

 

 

yes!!

[whykillme 1,621]

He's asking for opinions on replacing cool downs, not how mag spells are OP.

Please, suggest some ideas other than OP OP OP NEEEERF, DONT NERF LIB.

 

Well issue is, why nerf the only thing for FO to offer for PVP without nerfing magranon who has a huge advantage to it? If he also wants to keep things Balanced, those things need ot be looked at aswell.

[Pidgeoni 272]

Problem is given to the nature of Wurm combat, and the laggy nature of the servers, perfect timming actions won't work before a good overhaul of combat and server effectiveness.

 

My suggestion had nothing to do with twitch combat and server limitations. More about questions like "Do I cast this pillar now or keep it for later"

Spells already have long cast times, because the game is such.

 

Plus, its a MMO, you can't expect people to act on a hive mind, you can't really allow an individual's actions to undermine their team that much, specially with all the spy vs spy thing... I don't think that your suggestion is the best way to go about it.

 

What is Wurm PvP if not cooperated fighting? A "Hive Mind" is pretty much what I expect the perfect kingdom to have.

A spy that actually made it to PvP could just as well screw people up already. Hoping out of un-deeded doors, attacking his teammates etc.

I'm not saying my suggestions solves everything, but it at least solves spell spamming, which is the problem at hand.

 

 

I believe that the idea of having area-cooldowns on AoE spells, and reducing power of Single-target, and allow them to act as a alternative to archery is a good way to give priests some power in PvP.

 

Area-cooldowns sounds cool for pillar spells, like previous suggestions said, but how would it work for spells like Light of Fo and Scorn?

Allowing spell spamming as an alternative to archery is not something the game has right now and is probably more suitable as a suggestion of its own.

Seen it a couple of times on the forums already and I think it would be cool indeed for Vynora priests.

 

Sorry, but i'll have to hit you with the "Its a sandbox, your opinion shouldn't be constricting my options" hammer.

A priest should be as much of a tactical option as a catapult, a sword or a bow. Its imbalanced it needs balancing, but we can't disable options just because they affect someone's sense of aesthetics.

 

There isn't really an option right now from what I've seen, is there? Fo spams Light and Libila spams Scorn because it's the only sensible thing to do.

Your spell choices should determine how you act for that battle, however there are no real options right now.

This is again out of topic imo, but an option could exist between casting Scorn or Mushrooms for example. Do you want to heal or push the enemies aside?

 

Yes. Thats why this topic exists, cause it needs balance.

But one thing is balance, another thing is what the other guy suggested, which basically means if you mange to infiltrate a kingdom with a priest. You cast 3-4 aoes onto the rear of your own army, or somewhere else that is harmless, and suddenly the whole kingdom is dead in the water.

 

We don't have such problems in Epic as far as I know, so I could be biased.

But is it really a possibility for enemy alts with high faith to infiltrate other kingdoms to such degree?

 

Per person cooldowns are fine. Shouldn't be gimped by having your AoE spells on cooldown just because an ally nearby casted a spell. If you have 20 people and can cast an AoE spell back to back, fair play. If you have one, you shouldn't be able to.

 

How would you cast Scorn back to back when it needs to target enemies to have any effect?

How about casting both Scorn and Mushrooms? Or Draining people while already having a mushroom Trap?

Should we rewrite all spells?

 

This whole discussion was raised because people spamming Area of Effect spells is not "fair play" nor very interesting.

Group cooldowns could possibly help fix things.

 

 

I've read a suggestion somewhere about giving targets recently affected by spells temporary spell resistance. This could work for damaging spells but doesn't really fix the Light of Fo issue.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Pidgeoni

[aamanus 1,488]

How would you cast Scorn back to back when it needs to target enemies to have any effect?

How about casting both Scorn and Mushrooms? Or Draining people while already having a mushroom Trap?

Should we rewrite all spells?

The same way that you'd cast it once? Just... more?

[Pidgeoni 272]

The same way that you'd cast it once? Just... more?

 

This is a problem that needs to be solved as far as I understand. There has been arguing about spell spamming since I joined the forums.

 

I thought the priest was supposed to be the heart of the group. Not that each group should consist solely of priests to be competitive.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Pidgeoni

[Danny 52]

Please consider balancing this against the res stone bonus magranon recieves. It stacks with res stone from a trader.

 

This gives magranon priests a 2x higher chance to keep their equipment which means all other religions have to maintain a 2:1 kill death ratio to break even in terms of loot. It also means that high end equipment such as dragon armour naturally accumulates towards magranon priests.

 

On top of this they have a 25% combat damage bonus in exchange they have useless spells. If this change goes ahead then they are recieving a significant boost when they are already the dominating force on chaos.

[griper 537]

Can you make a counterspell type of thing for all priests to cast in combat to counter or slow down enemy casts?