A thief on Release! (Warning) KoS's being issued!

[Rasu 561]

Wow the failure to understand that a large cart has its own permissions that are not related to a deed and that a houses own permissions are not in effect without a lock went right over your head.....

[Fairyshine 3,183]

Wow the failure to understand that a large cart has its own permissions that are not related to a deed and that a houses own permissions are not in effect without a lock went right over your head.....

Well Rasu, here is how I interpret the following:  "Purchasing a deed provides you with a plot of land that is totally protected from the actions of other players while still allowing for interaction and collaboration with other players via a variety of deed management settings.  For those that choose not to purchase a deed, the game mechanics on the Freedom server still offer several methods of protection.  Structures cannot be bashed, door and boat locks cannot be lock picked, and your player bank is not accessible by anyone but you.  Using gatehouses instead of fence gates, and stone fences instead of wooden ones, can offer added protection to animal pens and farm fields. Also domestic animals can be branded to facilitate recovery in the event of theft. "  I see this as purchasing a deed provides you with a plot of land that is TOTALLY PROTECTED from the actions of other players.  The code of conduct continues then that IF YOU CHOOSE NOT TO PURCHASE A DEED, other precautions mentioning specifically locks for doors boats and carts, should be implemented. It does not say "despite buying a deed you won't have total protection." It says "if you choose not to buy a deed, then...." Nothing went over my head, but you know, acknowledging that there are different interpretations of this issue, and that if we want to have TOTAL PROTECTION on our deeds as described in the code of conduct, it would stop a lot of nonsense about griefing and a lot of support tickets when people lose stuff off their deeds.

[Marshlander 188]

If deed permissions would override houses, containers and carts in order to "fully secure" your possessions, you'd be forced to add more people into the roles of your deed in order to pickup, deliver, embark, have a meal from a barrel etc at your deed. And you wouldn't be able to have areas of different access rights - a public dock, a warehouse for collaborator deliveries, a farm where hired hands work, a village workshop and your private quarters. Your villagers would in fact have access to your private chambers (unless they're really brick slaves that are locked away in a house themselves).

 

I don't see at all how a total all-or-nothing approach to security would improve your situation one bit, because in that case when you need to allow something, it will enable it anywhere on the deed with potentially unforeseen effects. It's like investing in a twelve-inch steel front door that closes air-tight, you'd need to leave that open half the time just to breathe .

 

I hope you agree that having houses and containers override deed permissions and not the other way around is the way to go here.

 

The problem is that permissions - where they technically work correctly and don't cover some action that they're not supposed to, or where some actions aren't covered at all - are not always intuitive in the way they overlap/interact. We need to test/experiment to learn how they work, and there are a number of cases that this needs to be done for. And sometimes, we just forget to change the permissions back when we had some guest saying they couldn't do this or that (put some stuff in our bin/cart).

 

I would love to have the game evaluate accessibility for me when I open a container/item pile and display an icon near the window-top when a) anyone can access the contents, b ) friends can access the contents, c) villagers can access the contents or d) only I can do so. Then I don't have to cross-reference different permission settings to compute what might happen when a stranger comes across or log an alt to test it.

 

The same would have to be shown for commanding a vehicle to help for situations like the one described here.

Edited August 23, 2014 by Marshlander

[Fairyshine 3,183]

Permissions for carts and ships akin to minedoors would be great.  I also think that the owner of a cart does not actually should be made to lock it, instead it should be locked to the owner like a deed paper is locked to the mayor. The owner can then choose to allow certain people to access it, by name (not only a class, so for example, in addition to tickboxes for friends, allies and citizens, we should have an additional option of choosing people by name to access the cart.)

 

On a deed nobody but the owner or the cart should ever be allowed to access or drag or unhitch a cart, unless the owner gave said person permission to do so, whether the cart is locked or not.  

Edited August 23, 2014 by Fairyshine

[Maiya 490]

 

Enki

Villager

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• Head Game Master

9,329 posts

Posted 08 May 2014 - 08:04 PM

The Freedom Code of Conduct is now retired.

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In case this post is missed out 

so if its not locked up locked in then ......

[Fairyshine 3,183]

The deed notes about a deed providing protection from the actions of other players, still hold valid, despite the code for actions of other players being retired.

Edited August 23, 2014 by Fairyshine

[Audrel 2,223]

 

 

 

In case this post is missed out 

so if its not locked up locked in then ......

 

 

EDIT: It doesn't matter. Arguing with you people is futile. You will find a way to support whatever you do. There's a loophole guaranteed to cover you.

Edited August 23, 2014 by Audrel

[Rasu 561]

Permissions for carts and ships akin to minedoors would be great.  I also think that the owner of a cart does not actually should be made to lock it, instead it should be locked to the owner like a deed paper is locked to the mayor. The owner can then choose to allow certain people to access it, by name (not only a class, so for example, in addition to tickboxes for friends, allies and citizens, we should have an additional option of choosing people by name to access the cart.)

 

On a deed nobody but the owner or the cart should ever be allowed to access or drag or unhitch a cart, unless the owner gave said person permission to do so, whether the cart is locked or not.  

 

Well at this time it does not work like that for good reason and if you fail to secure your boat, cart, or whatever you have no room to complain when something goes missing.

[Audrel 2,223]

Well at this time it does not work like that for good reason and if you fail to secure your boat, cart, or whatever you have no room to complain when something goes missing.

 

What good reason? Give me one good reason why a person can come onto your deed into a writ and drag off a cart to a place they can then loot it by circumventing deed permissions.

[Rasu 561]

What good reason? Give me one good reason why a person can come onto your deed into a writ and drag off a cart to a place they can then loot it by circumventing deed permissions.

 

Each building vehicle has its own permissions for a reason. You cant expect a deed to protect unlocked boats, carts, and other stuff without there being problems when you have to flip on and off permissions just so some guy can walk into your house and drop off an order for you. If you still fail to understand why each vehicle has its own permissions then you should sell your account and go play some other game that will hold your hand.

[Audrel 2,223]

Each building vehicle has its own permissions for a reason. You cant expect a deed to protect unlocked boats, carts, and other stuff without there being problems when you have to flip on and off permissions just so some guy can walk into your house and drop off an order for you. If you still fail to understand why each vehicle has its own permissions then you should sell your account and go play some other game that will hold your hand.

 

LOL You won. Yes. I concede. Because we all know that you cannot drop anything in a writ on on a deed without permission.

[Rasu 561]

LOL You won. Yes. I concede. Because we all know that you cannot drop anything in a writ on on a deed without permission.

 

Least I don't expect a deed to protect something unlocked that has its own permissions attached to it and not see why its a bad idea for a deed to be able to tell people they cant access there own cart because they are on someones deed (*cough* like large crates that even when you built it  prevent you from doing anything with them)

[Fairyshine 3,183]

Least I don't expect a deed to protect something unlocked that has its own permissions attached to it and not see why its a bad idea for a deed to be able to tell people they cant access there own cart because they are on someones deed (*cough* like large crates that even when you built it  prevent you from doing anything with them)

You are missing the point.  This is about people accessing someone else's cart, not their own. Obviously this mechanic is being exploited and perhaps not working as intended, perhaps all carts should be locked to the owner without the additional need for a lock attached afterwards?  

Edited August 23, 2014 by Fairyshine

[Audrel 2,223]

Least I don't expect a deed to protect something unlocked that has its own permissions attached to it and not see why its a bad idea for a deed to be able to tell people they cant access there own cart because they are on someones deed (*cough* like large crates that even when you built it  prevent you from doing anything with them)

 

It wasn't their cart. They went onto a deed and into a writ snooping and then dragged a cart that is not theirs off the deed to a place they can loot it. Now, if that is not a clear indication of intent, maybe I should take your advice and go to a game that not only holds my hand but has a rule other than "Whatever the opinion of a GM is about intent." Argue on if you want but the whole thing is lame and the fact that nothing was done is worse because the intent is as obvious as the sun on a bright summer day.

 

EDIT: But then again, the player didn't lock his house or his cart so maybe we should ban him for tempting a thief. Sorry, Gnome. That's the facts.

Edited August 23, 2014 by Audrel

[Rasu 561]

It wasn't their cart. They went onto a deed and into a writ snooping and then dragged a cart that is not theirs off the deed to a place they can loot it. Now, if that is not a clear indication of intent, maybe I should take your advice and go to a game that not only holds my hand but has a rule other than "Whatever the opinion of a GM is about intent." Argue on if you want but the whole thing is lame and the fact that nothing was done is worse because the intent is as obvious as the sun on a bright summer day.

 

Which is only possible because every single form of security that *SHOULD* of been in place was not.

[Rasu 561]

You are missing the point.  This is about people accessing someone else's cart, not their own. Obviously this mechanic is being exploited and perhaps not working as intended, perhaps all carts should be locked to the owner without the additional need for a lock attached afterwards?  

 

If they did not combine PvE and PvP then maybe it would be like that but with it being like it is there is a need for the locks attached to have varrying QL.

[Aeris 3,764]

So either we overcomplicate things because mistakes happen or you adapt and add a lock the next time you make a cart.

Being able to freely choose whether you want to add a lock to your building/boat/cart or not is something I don't think we should remove just because mistakes happen.

I'm sorry for your loss, but please don't turn it into a crusade where you want to remove the freedom of others.

[gnomegates 1,429]

Like I have said before, this is a subject that I felt needs to be brought up and talked about. If nothing comes of it fine, if something does, fine, in no way is this a "crusade" I would not waste my time. I do find it funny that people are more concerned about if I had the cart locked or not and the such, (which I admit in the first post at the beginning I did not) then they are about someone going around stealing stuff.

 

Like others have said, yes I have chocked it up to a learning experience, yes I will lock future carts, blah blah blah, its not about the cart, its about the fact that Release has someone going around with the intent to steal from others. Its a warning to those that are not sure if their stuff is locked up, to make sure, and its a warning to people that I don't know, that you will be put on KoS if I see you in local. I don't want to have to do this, but as it stands now, there are no other options to keep unwanted people out of my deed.

 

So you guys can keep fighting over carts and permissions and that childish stuff, I did my best to warn others to lock it up, cuz "deed it or lose it" is not enough anymore!

[necroe 696]

Thread has lived out its life.

Locking now, will still be here to be read.

 

Regards,

Necroe (Board Moderator)