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Wurmhole

I am bashing someon's gate and I don't want to

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Unfortunately, GMs tell me that driving a cart into a mine opening is a "hard lesson" to learn and they don't consider it a bug, even though it is impossible to drive back out if someone has a gate or wall along the front.


 


Where in the game tutorial is this?  So, my only way out is to bash some poor fellow's gate for an hour.


 


Is this really my mistake? Do I need to report the GM that blew me off?  This is a bug, right?  Carts can drive in but not out?


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And whomever's property I am damaging, I'll rebuild for you later.  Mine gate right next to a small building called "Alpha Hut" on Pristine.  I also had to reopen part of your mine to keep from drowning.  Happy to give you some free strongwalls and fix it up for you.


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Not sure I'm totally understanding the problem but...if there is a gate, with no walls around the opening, and you sort of fell in or drove in on the top or sides it's not a glitch. If the gate swung open and allowed you in but now won't open to let you out it's a bug. Is it possible someone locked the gate after you entered?


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If there's a gate in front, but no gate/wall/fence on one or more of the other sides, it's very easy to drive/walk/etc. in but not get back out...but not a bug per se as far as I know.  Just one of the realities of Wurm which, by the by, does sort of parallel real life - I can fall in a lot of places that I can't very easily get back out of.  Not saying I'll survive the fall because I don't magically take 0 damage when falling into a mine....


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Assuming only the front and at max 2 other sides had a gate/wall and you went in through the opening then there is indeed nothing the GMs can do. I had the same thing happen to me a good six years ago, though in that case I was without a cart, and I also didn't have anything to bash the gate with (I fell into the mine then as I was falling down a hill, out of stamina). I had to suicide out and lost all my stuff. A farwalker twig would have gotten me out, but if you have a cart then even that doesn't work. Imagine if the mine you had fallen into was on deed, then you couldn't even bash that gate down!


 


I consider it really bad form to put a locked gate in front of a mine without also walling in the other three sides. Doing so makes the mine a deathtrap to anybody who falls in (and that can happen by accident, especially if you fall down a mountain/hill) and is just plain lazy. Building those 3 extra walls takes almost no effort. I really wish such deathtraps were against the rules (they are clearly against the spirit of the PvE servers) and that GMs could destroy the gates when something like this happens. It's exactly because of this stuff that minedoors were added in the first place.


 


So if you use a normal locked gate in front of your mine then at least have the decency to put an extra 3 walls on the other sides of the mine entrance so people can't fall in, or just use a minedoor.


Edited by Ecrir
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Either report the GM who didn't help you or report the GM who did help to get my cart out of a cave.


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Heh... It's that kind of stuff that finally led me yesterday to send a "hard lesson" to code club........ let my sub expire, will give it a few weeks see what transpires before deciding what to do with my deed and boats.


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I consider it really bad form to put a locked gate in front of a mine without also walling in the other three sides. Doing so makes the mine a deathtrap to anybody who falls in (and that can happen by accident, especially if you fall down a mountain/hill) and is just plain lazy. Building those 3 extra walls takes almost no effort. I really wish such deathtraps were against the rules (they are clearly against the spirit of the PvE servers) and that GMs could destroy the gates when something like this happens. It's exactly because of this stuff that minedoors were added in the first place.

 

So if you use a normal locked gate in front of your mine then at least have the decency to put an extra 3 walls on the other sides of the mine entrance so people can't fall in, or just use a minedoor.

 

Too bad a passing troll will make quick work of your walls. The 80-90ql walls around my mines rarely last more than a week.

If minedoors had a better permission system and lasted like a gatehouse did I imagine more people would use them.

 

It's weird though because GMs have rescued quite a few people from my mines after they fall in the troll bashed openings.

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Fairly sure something more is going on then what the OP is telling here. From what i saw in CA Help almoust every person that dropped inside such things and didnt knew about it got rescued. the ones that were refused usually thought jumping into someones mines on purpose to mine a little bit or to steal some items it totally okay and GMs will  help them out with the deed. Either that or policies got stricter and if there is an ingame way to rescue yourself you need to use that.


Either way locked mines are kinda locked for a reason - on the other side of the story im pretty sure not many would be okay with finding their mine broken into and then get told that the GM helped the culprit.


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If you pass by a gated mine entrance, it's possible for your cart to be "halfway in" and "become marked as inside the mine".


 


If only the "walking in" tile border is gated and the rest open, it's easy to genuinely fall in.. i've had to bust my way out of a couple.


 


You need better friends oldknight =P 


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in my case, it was just a mine opening of 1 tile and no ores or stuff, but there was a lava fiend and I wanted to see if I could target it.  I just figured it was safe to drive a cart because cart mechanics prevent you from driving slopes that exceed cart slope rules AND also prevent you from driving down drop shafts.  Yet here they have a way to fall with horse drawn cart.


 


I was nice with the GM and most GMs have ben very helpful and kind. This person was just not considerate and made no effort to treat a paying customer (16 prem at the moment and maybe 50s/month in upkeep deeds) first.  I agree with Mordraug... I can always give them a tough lesson right back and pull the plug.


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FWIW:

Players should maintain the edges of their mine if they are to put locked buildings on the entrance tile - should they not then they can not complain their gate being bashed down.

Bash it down and give 0 poops, the guy can't be bothered to wall it off completely, he doesn't deserve the security.

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When I did that the gm set me free.  Don't do that again.  DUH


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Problem: People get trapped behind fence gates put on just one tile border of a mine entrance. But those people can still fall into the mine from the sides/top of the entrance. Its a one way entrance trap.


solution:


1. Make the mine door easier and applicable in all situation so there is no reason not to make the minedoor in the first place. 


- Add a mine door to the game that is the same materials and difficulty as building a wood fence gate on flat tile border.


- If the slope of the mine entrance has slopes too steep for a door then reduce the slopes when adding the door.


 


OR


 


2. Change mine entrances so there is a natural impassable collision wall around all but the bottom tile border.


- add an automatic collision wall to all mine entrances for all but the bottom tile order.


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I always ask for a second opinion when use Support, though I rarely use it I tend to try and get GM's I've known have played the game at least as long as me, while I think all mean well, too many have differing opinions of the rules.


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One of my mates had a maybe similar case some time ago, there was a mine with a rock mine door, no side neither upper border walls, but a small gatehouse in the lower border, the mine door was set to open for everyone, but the gate house only allowed the owner, so he thought the mine entrance was collapsed and wen he drives the cart over what he supposed was a rock tile, the mine door opened and he ended in the mine, able to climb out on foot, but impossible to get out driving the cart, he made a support call and the GM kindly assisted him. The GM also made the owner fix the mine by building the side and upper borders walls, and since the owner didn´t had the required skill for the slope, we helped with the building of the side walls.


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Interesting. I once had a mine door and a mining hut across the entrance of one of my offdeed mines. The mine door would've had about 4k hp on it when some guy bashed it down to the nothing and trapped himself in the mine.

 

I mention this because when I got back to the place a week later, the mine door was gone and some helpful GM had removed the locks on my hut, freeing the thief and enabling whatever thievery was going down. I wasn't much bothered, just put up stone walls instead - which trolls occasionally destroy.

So perhaps not very consistent on this rule.

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Everyone gonna tell their mine story? Okay:

Many years ago, I got trapped in a mine system just south of Newtown on the old JK map. I fell down the dropshaft of an abandoned mine system above (while admittedly exploring), and found myself in a fairly fortified system with no means of escape. Both exits in this lower system had stone walls all around, and both had gatehouses. 

I used Support. a GM (who doesn't play anymore) tele'd in local and told me that there was nothing that she could do to help me out, and that I got myself into the situation, I'd have to get myself out. She suggested that I either wait for the "owner" of the undeeded land to log on so they could let me out, or to try and mine up from where i fell down the dropshaft, to try and get myself up to the upper system that I came from.

She left, and left me there.

I immediately PMed Becket. Told him to bring himself and 2 large mauls to NT. When he got to the location, I had him enter the upper, abandoned mine system and trade me a maul from the top of the dropshaft. We were fortunate, because with the gatehouse design around the lower system, the player left 1 tile in between the gatehouse and the mine entrance. Becket and I went to town with the mauls on that small wall. I was free from my prison in about an hour. I did do the nice guy thing and rebuild a stone wall to replace the one we took down. The owner probably never even knew anything happened at all.

Since then, I've probably gotten stuck inside of fenced in areas and such now more than 25 times. I never call a GM unless its a deed i'm stuck in, therefore necessary. Otherwise, I can get myself out of whatever problem I am in quicker than the GM (who may or may not feel like being a nice guy) will be at responding to my support call.





TL;DR: Carry a wall remover on you at all times. Only notify GM when necessary. You will solve your own problems quicker than a GM will respond to your call.


(The irony in the TL;DR is that maybe if everyone stopped using support for silly things like being "trapped" in a mine, we wouldn't have 4-6 hour wait times on /support, when help is legitimately needed of getting your boat unstuck from the horrendous server border pockets.)

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That's nice and all, Decay, but given the lack of clearly written rules, the RNG with getting a GM willing to help, the RNG for definition of "griefing" and who actually is the party doing it, and the RNG for when a bug is deemed as such or otherwise....... 


 


Next thing you know, you're stuck in a 4-slope mine entrance planted right next to a road, bash your way out, and find yourself warned for griefing because the "genius tunneler" happened to be in the same alliance as the GM he reported his missing gate to nowhere to......... 


 


Yeah, I can see where people would rather call a GM.... and then you could drastically reduce the load on GM's if people didn't have to constantly have to re-/support cases where GM assistance should have been the obvious solution, but instead the person got berated because that specific GM knew all the mechanics when he joined Wurm, and the player who asked for assistance is at fault for not joining the psychic network that documents all these bugs.


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On PvE servers, there are a couple of things we will look at. For example, are you new to the game or have you been around for many months? Did you jump in the mine yourself to loot it, or did you accidentally fall in? Is there any possibility for you to get out without our help?

If the mine is deeded and it is impossible to mine/bash out due to deed restrictions, we will try to contact the deed owner to get the mine fixed. If the mine is clearly a death trap (for example, right next to a road where people can easily fall in), we will also take action to fix it.

The problem is that in general we try to not interfere, unless there is a rule violation or a bug. Sometimes this doesn't do anybody good. Especially newer players will get very upset, because they didn't know the mechanics. Do we help though? If we do help, we become inconsistent. If we don't help, we have a very upset player.

When somebody IS able to get themselves out, by mining or bashing out for example, then we will almost always suggest to do that and hope that they will see it as learning something new about the game, so that they do not get in the same situation again.

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On PvE servers, there are a couple of things we will look at. For example, are you new to the game or have you been around for many months? Did you jump in the mine yourself to loot it, or did you accidentally fall in? Is there any possibility for you to get out without our help?

If the mine is deeded and it is impossible to mine/bash out due to deed restrictions, we will try to contact the deed owner to get the mine fixed. If the mine is clearly a death trap (for example, right next to a road where people can easily fall in), we will also take action to fix it.

The problem is that in general we try to not interfere, unless there is a rule violation or a bug. Sometimes this doesn't do anybody good. Especially newer players will get very upset, because they didn't know the mechanics. Do we help though? If we do help, we become inconsistent. If we don't help, we have a very upset player.

When somebody IS able to get themselves out, by mining or bashing out for example, then we will almost always suggest to do that and hope that they will see it as learning something new about the game, so that they do not get in the same situation again.

 

This is a bad policy for assisting players (on the PvE servers) to get out of mines that have the entrance tile blocked off. There should be no stipulations attached as to how they entered in order to remove them from being trapped within the mine. So what if they even chose to jump inside. How will you know if they did so, or just slid down the hill and fell in, or were peeking inside and fell in, or were backing up looking elsewhere and fell in.

 

The point here is that mines with entrances blocked and the sides and top open are blocking players within mines. If players want to prevent others from entering mines this is not the proper way to do so. They must also build these walls at the sides and top. Since the game coding provides no option for getting out of these mines, then the GM's should get players out without any questions as to how they entered there.

 

Perhaps some players have intentionally left the sides and top off to trap other players within it. Even consider that? If players were removed from mines by GM's (better yet coding enabled for this), then players who blocked off mine entrances to keep others out would be sure to also build the sides and top walls and keep them maintained, as otherwise players could enter and do as they wish and then be removed by GM's. It is all too obvious that a blocked off entrance will not keep players out of mines, only trap them within it.

 

=Ayes=

Edited by Ayes
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Its been bugged where you can walk out of a mine with a wall in the front but not the sides for over 4 years.


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This is a bad policy for assisting players (on the PvE servers) to get out of mines that have the entrance tile blocked off. There should be no stipulations attached as to how they entered in order to remove them from being trapped within the mine. So what if they even chose to jump inside. How will you know if they did so, or just slid down the hill and fell in, or were peeking inside and fell in, or were backing up looking elsewhere and fell in.

 

The point here is that mines with entrances blocked and the sides and top open are blocking players within mines. If players want to prevent others from entering mines this is not the proper way to do so. They must also build these walls at the sides and top. Since the game coding provides no option for getting out of these mines, then the GM's should get players out without any questions as to how they entered there.

 

Perhaps some players have intentionally left the sides and top off to trap other players within it. Even consider that? If players were removed from mines by GM's (better yet coding enabled for this), then players who blocked off mine entrances to keep others out would be sure to also build the sides and top walls and keep them maintained, as otherwise players could enter and do as they wish and then be removed by GM's. It is all too obvious that a blocked off entrance will not keep players out of mines, only trap them within it.

 

=Ayes=

That would be the case, if it was an unintended game mechanic. It has been like this for a very long time and many of people's mine defenses rely on this mechanic. If we were to start helping everybody out of the mine, that would mean we find the situation to be unintended/bugged. A developer would have to decide that now, not us.

Right now, we go with that it's intended, as players have legitimate reasons to defend their mines this way. Walling of sides is very often impossible due to slope.

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