Balance res Stones and the free res stone effect

[Zwei 210]

Same for Mag abilities, if you put in the time and money in developing such a char. Neither ability is available to a player right off the bat.

[Daolin 894]

Same for Mag abilities, if you put in the time and money in developing such a char. Neither ability is available to a player right off the bat.

[Zwei 210]

SotG also takes a hell of a long time to get if you don't have the meditation skill already.  Trust me the dang thing is pure hell to get.    Compared to Hate's Rage ability you can get more quickly, or some of the other paths SoTG takes a while.  

[Enzius 485]

Knowledge is no skill loss, at least when you die, you dont lose those skills, its a PvE path, SotG is near useless in PvE, and is thus, Underpowered

Love too, Not getting attacked by animals in powerful zones (hellhounds and the bought all over), makes SotG look useless in PvE.

And that healing hands, its a PvE thing, with a PvP side..

SotG is only useful in PvP, where the main focus is no where to be found.

Its not OP, its just directed at a audience. c:

[Klaa 4,872]

True, but meditation paths are available to all players, regardless of kingdom, hardly comparable.

 

This is about WL getting something for free that BL players need to pay 5s for, every single death, lets try keep it on topic.

Edited August 11, 2014 by Klaa

[Zwei 210]

It goes beyond PvP. Also you listed some 50 med perks not 70. Notice that you didn't even include power:)

[necroe 696]

Thread cleaned.

This has gotten out of control.

Not a place to insult each other.

Keep on topic here.

 

Regards,

Necroe (Board Moderator)

Edited August 11, 2014 by necroe

[MamaDarkness 880]

If you do not have anything meaningful to add to the suggestion then players should refrain from posting.  This is not a forum to insult each other or troll post.  Further derailment will result in heavier moderation on said accounts.

[Battlepaw 585]

Ok then, in keeping with the topic lets disect the OP.  

 

 

As it is currently, you can buy a res stone for 5s and it gives you a 50% chance to keep your items, if you are a high faith mag priest (Only available to WL kingdoms) then you get an extra 50% roll to keep your items after the res stone is taken into effect.

 

This is not balanced currently as one group need to pay for a chance to keep their items (Blacklighters) and one group need to pay for an extra chance at keeping their items, but get the res stone effect for free at high faith.

 

I suggest either:

 

1) remove res stone effects completely from mag priests

2) make it fair and give blacklight template kingdoms (libila priests) the same ability at high faith

 

It makes no sense that one group has to pay for something with silver and the other group get this effect for free and can double it for the same cost.

 

First, it isn't just "one group" its Mag priests, not Fo priest, not normal WL characters that have res stones.  Second you need to keep 40 faith in reserve, meaning that when fighting and useing the mag bonus, that does not stack with a res stone and only has a 50/50 chance of working anyways we can't blow what would normally be a perfectly good fire pillar spell.

 

Daolin, I'm not going to take this request with a grain of salt simply because its the second or third time a demand has been made to stack more advantages on Libilia priests.   I'm still of the opion that you can work with what you got.   I'm saying this because you do not present both sides of the argument.   

 

If you did you would realize that as priests Libilia are perhaps already the most powerful in the game next to Fo.    You have a whole range of abilities to work with, yet if we disagree with your OP, its unfair to BL?    How is it unfair?   We play on Chaos too, and many of us have also played on Epic, and fought Libilia priests, or even been ones ourselves at one point or another.  Many of us are quite aware that they already wreck as it is, they just need to be used right, and work as a team, just as our Mag priests do.  

[Danny 52]

I feel like the entire religion system needs reworking so -ALL- priests are equally viable for combat, both on combat effectiveness and on cost efficiency.

[Danny 52]

Ok then, in keeping with the topic lets disect the OP.  

 

 

 

First, it isn't just "one group" its Mag priests, not Fo priest, not normal WL characters that have res stones.  Second you need to keep 40 faith in reserve, meaning that when fighting and useing the mag bonus, that does not stack with a res stone and only has a 50/50 chance of working anyways we can't blow what would normally be a perfectly good fire pillar spell.

 

Daolin, I'm not going to take this request with a grain of salt simply because its the second or third time a demand has been made to stack more advantages on Libilia priests.   I'm still of the opion that you can work with what you got.   I'm saying this because you do not present both sides of the argument.   

 

If you did you would realize that as priests Libilia are perhaps already the most powerful in the game next to Fo.    You have a whole range of abilities to work with, yet if we disagree with your OP, its unfair to BL?    How is it unfair?   We play on Chaos too, and many of us have also played on Epic, and fought Libilia priests, or even been ones ourselves at one point or another.  Many of us are quite aware that they already wreck as it is, they just need to be used right, and work as a team, just as our Mag priests do.  

Looking at combat value only please explain what you feel balances a 25% damage bonus and double chance to keep loot.

[Klaa 4,872]

Eh but then you kinda lose their flavor. Mag currently is more of a war god/strict justice. Libila in a similar manner except she's more about vengeance by any means. Still not entirely sure about what persay, lore never really gets into it.

 

Both inherently pvp-oriented. Fo... healer, nurturer, male nature god (man in the green but go figure). Vynora... more interested in gaining knowledge and preserving civilization (which is more anti-pvp).

Edited August 11, 2014 by Klaa

[Battlepaw 585]

Looking at combat value only please explain what you feel balances a 25% damage bonus and double chance to keep loot.

 

Also only applies when we have over 40 favor.    Basically nearly half of our Favor pool is untouchable, unless we want to lose our res and our bonus.  That is a big tradeoff.  

[Danny 52]

Eh but then you kinda lose their flavor. Mag currently is more of a war god/strict justice. Libila in a similar manner except she's more about vengeance by any means. Still not entirely sure about what persay, lore never really gets into it.

 

Both inherently pvp-oriented. Fo... healer, nurturer, male nature god (man in the green but go figure). Vynora... more interested in gaining knowledge and preserving civilization (which is more anti-pvp).

I posted this earlier in the thread which would maintain 'flavour' and be some progress towards balance. The benefits could be doubled for priests :

 

Another alternative would be to reduce the damage bonus too 10% for magnaron, give libila 10% damage reduction, leave vynora 10% skillgain and add 10-20% healing bonus to Fo (both from LT/spells and perhaps x2 regen). I would also like to see vynora gain some more combat spells to make them more viable.

Edited August 11, 2014 by Danny

[MrGARY 12,421]

I played a Mag priest for over a year, and after the pillar nerf (which I still support) all Mag really had for me was 25% dmg bonus which is really nowhere near as powerful as people make it out to be (1-2 more dmg unless you hit like a truck? ok..) and the res stone bonus.  I really still can't follow the logic of how a passive bonus that only affects you when you die is overpowered, to me overpowered means you don't die.  I get people can be upset about losing out on drake/scale, but not everyone cares about dragon armor, and usually on Epic, you're just going to get plate anyway which is dime a dozen, so it's just a handy thing to help keep pvp flowing and less downtime if it works.  Outside of that, and I guess dominate which fails heavily in comparison to rebirth's potential, there really isn't even a reason to be a Mag priest

 

-1

[Daolin 894]

Added poll which should clear up any confusion of the intentions of the original post.

[Danny 52]

Also only applies when we have over 40 favor.    Basically nearly half of our Favor pool is untouchable, unless we want to lose our res and our bonus.  That is a big tradeoff.  

We all know that after casting everyone sucks a Gem in PVP anyway. I'd say the same applies to lib priests but they get nothing at all for either being a priest or having favour. Thats not really a trade off at all. You get something when you have over 40 favour and nothing under it. We just have nothing.

[Danny 52]

I played a Mag priest for over a year, and after the pillar nerf (which I still support) all Mag really had for me was 25% dmg bonus which is really nowhere near as powerful as people make it out to be (1-2 more dmg unless you hit like a truck? ok..) and the res stone bonus.  I really still can't follow the logic of how a passive bonus that only affects you when you die is overpowered, to me overpowered means you don't die.  I get people can be upset about losing out on drake/scale, but not everyone cares about dragon armor, and usually on Epic, you're just going to get plate anyway which is dime a dozen, so it's just a handy thing to help keep pvp flowing and less downtime if it works.  Outside of that, and I guess dominate which fails heavily in comparison to rebirth's potential, there really isn't even a reason to be a Mag priest

 

-1

and 1-2 more healing from LT and assuming both characters are the same then 4 of you are atleast equal 5 other priests, lets not even talk about the res stone on top.

 

I'm all for adding extra or removing from the other priests as I agree if the changes go through then Mag will be left in a bad place and thats NOT what we want.

 

As for how the res stone is OP, basically everyone else has to have a 2:1 kill death ratio to even break even in terms of loot and thats disregarding the way they can insta take corpses and save loot from others. Hell they often go into a fight that they loose but come out on top as a result.

[Klaa 4,872]

I also argue against calling the ability a "free" rez stone affect. That amount of favor being tied up is nothing to sneeze over. As already mentioned beforehand, its a good fire pillar right there.

 

It does have a cost to reach that point, and a tradeoff to keep it. In fact one can argue the prem costs, time, and etc is actually far more than a res stone.

 

Its actually quite a cheap stone at a mere 5s.

Edited August 11, 2014 by Klaa

[Daolin 894]

I also argue against calling the ability a "free" rez stone affect. That amount of favor being tied up is nothing to sneeze over. As already mentioned beforehand, its a good fire pillar right there.

 

It does have a cost to reach that point, and a tradeoff to keep it. In fact one can argue the prem costs, time, and etc is actually far more than a res stone.

 

Its actually quite a cheap stone at a mere 5s.

 

Assuming you need 40 favor, that's a 20ql vesseled gem.

 

20ql at 2c/ql = 40 copper, which is 12.5x cheaper than a res stone.

[Danny 52]

I also argue against calling the ability a "free" rez stone affect. That amount of favor being tied up is nothing to sneeze over. As already mentioned beforehand, its a good fire pillar right there.

 

It does have a cost to reach that point, and a tradeoff to keep it. In fact one can argue the prem costs, time, and etc is actually far more than a res stone.

 

Its actually quite a cheap stone at a mere 5s.

Thats not really a trade off at all. You get something when you have over 40 favour and nothing under it. everyone else just has nothing.

[Klaa 4,872]

Ever actually used a Mag priest? because its starting to sound like you have no actual first hand exp using one.

Assuming you need 40 favor, that's a 20ql vesseled gem.

 

20ql at 2c/ql = 40 copper, which is 12.5x cheaper than a res stone.

 

*yawn* left out the time and money spent to reach 70 faith. Then keeping 40 favor online. Then the cost of acquiring said gem (of decent ql) and favoring it. Oh yeah priest restrictions.

Edited August 11, 2014 by Klaa

[Battlepaw 585]

That isn't a very unbias poll btw Daolin.   First you have this in the suggestions topic, not the Chaos topic, so people who do stop by and don't read the argument may poll without realizing the intent.   Honestly, consider this entire topic, and your OP.  This was never a suggestion.   Each point you have made, you don't clarifiy, you just keep illerating your demand.  

 

Is it wrong we disagree with you?  Yes, there is nothing balanced about each one of these topics you put up.  If it was, you would have people trying to discuss it more than just wave it off in disgust.  

 

 

We all know that after casting everyone sucks a Gem in PVP anyway. I'd say the same applies to lib priests but they get nothing at all for either being a priest or having favour. Thats not really a trade off at all. You get something when you have over 40 favour and nothing under it. We just have nothing.

 

I don't complain that BL priests can slam that weaken into non-priests, and wrecking stats, or that Fo priests can stack lots of casts onto themselves to keep that Oakshell on.   Each priest type has its advantages and disadvantages.   Mag priests have that favor pool limitation.   That's why you see us allways working togather as groups and linking with each other.

 

No one priest type should have everything.   Even if it's blacklighter.   There are 2 Blacklighter PMKs on Chaos, and there is a lot of evidence that Black Leigon works with the JK, and that you have control over the current HOTS set kingdom.  I don't know where anyone would get the impression that blacklighters are outmatched and outnumbered unless it's some propaganda stew your cooking up.   Certainly current activity that is picking up, within BL will dispel any doubts that you have the capability eventually to match MR's priest population.  

Edited August 11, 2014 by Battlepaw

[Daolin 894]

*yawn* left out the time and money spent to reach 70 faith. Then keeping 40 favor online. Then the cost of acquiring said gem (of decent ql) and favoring it. Oh yeah priest restrictions.

 

Everyone else puts in the effort to get 70 faith, so you can hardly bring that into the equation.

 

Everyone can easily have 40 favor stored in a gem, gem's which can be obtained through mining, no need to purchase them and any cost you put on that is your own choice.

 

Res Stones can ONLY be purchased, they cannot be obtained by any other ingame means unless you are a mag priest.

[Danny 52]

That isn't a very unbias poll btw Daolin.   First you have this in the suggestions topic, not the Chaos topic, so people who do stop by and don't read the argument may poll without realizing the intent.   Honestly, consider this entire topic, and your OP.  This was never a suggestion.   Each point you have made, you don't clarifiy, you just keep illerating your demand.  

 

Is it wrong we disagree with you?  Yes, there is nothing balanced about each one of these topics you put up.  If it was, you would have people trying to discuss it more than just wave it off in disgust.  

 

 

 

I don't complain that BL priests can slam that weaken into me, or that Fo priests can stack lots of casts onto themselves to keep that Oakshell on.   Each priest type has its advantages and disadvantages.   Mag priests have that favor pool limitation.   That's why you see us allways working togather as groups and linking with each other.

 

No one priest type should have everything.   Even if it's blacklighter.   There are 2 Blacklighter PMKs on Chaos, and there is a lot of evidence that Black Leigon works with the JK, and that you have control over the current HOTS set kingdom.  I don't know where anyone would get the impression that blacklighters are outmatched and outnumbered unless it's some propaganda stew your cooking up.   Certainly current activity that is picking up, within BL will dispel any doubts that you have the capability eventually to match MR's priest population.  

This isn't about our population size or BL at all, this is about having balance in combat.

 

I'm trying to discuss with you as best as I can, I know the thread has degenerated quite a bit and we're all snapping at each other but I did make some fairly reasonable suggestions earlier in the thread.