MMORPG missed Wurm

[Theodis 339]

A system like that would make macro'ing improve a million times easier. Not saying it is not possible now to do it, everything is possible but this would make it a super duper easy system programmable via just the keyboard rather then third party software. This would also make the crafting system less interactive which would not be an improvement to it.

[KunAlt 844]

So out of curiosity how could the crafting system be tweaked to meet your high expectations? :-)

Edited August 16, 2014 by KunAlt

[Ruger 610]

To be fair it's already possible to have a one button key/mouse press to perform an improve action provided you have enough mind logic and a good enough tool belt. You don't need to put in any delays to make it work so as far as I know it's something legitimate to do. Implementing this feature would just mean people without fancy keyboards or mice would be on a more level playing field.

[Theodis 339]

Which is also not allowed under the game rules.

Edited August 16, 2014 by Theodis

[Alec 730]

So out of curiosity how could the crafting system be tweaked to meet your high expectations? :-)

[Ecrir 887]

Overall when it comes to Wurm's current crafting system I feel that the focus on imping/repetition makes it very boring. You just use a standard recipe to create an item and then you keep spamming the same actions all the time in order to improve the item. The game also lacks in the customization department. The handle on your sword doesn't matter even though it should be quite important for things like accuracy/parrying. Then consider that we've got tons of different wood types, which could each give different characteristics to the sword, and that metal handles could also be used for more choices, and it just seems like a waste of potential that these have no effect. Also, there are no customization options for the blade itself, even though throughout history longsword blades continually changed, going more and more towards a piercing focus over the years in order to counter plate. So customization options which can allow for tweaking of the slashing and piercing damage of said blade would make sense and would make things more interesting.

 

 

Something like this that actually involves you thinking something else than "make item out of predefined recipe → select bind for XYZ tool spam binds for imp-repair-imp-repair-imp-repair"

 

That crafting system is certainly quite a bit more interesting, same for, for example, the SWG crafting system. Back in SWG I did notice that gathering your raw materials takes a lot more effort than it tends to do in Wurm (excluding steel). If I remember correctly you also couldn't repair gear in SWG, instead you had to buy replacements after some time as your gear would break from useage. I haven't been able to find if this is also the case in The Repopulation, but it would make sense. In Wurm a no repair system probably wouldn't work well due to the current enchanting system, though making enchanting a lot easier would compensate for it.

If a switch were to be made towards a system more focused on creation and customization than imping, then the process of refining raw materials into usable materials should probably become more complex, so it is more time consuming (to compensate for the removal of imping). Repairing items should also require a good amount of raw materials and should not decrease the ql of the item. It could possibly require you to take the item apart into it's base components (for example, a handle and blade for a longsword), repairing those base components by using the proper tools and resources, and then putting them back together. The enchanting system should probably also be changed, right now you just keep spamming the same spell on an item until you feel the enchant is good enough, why not add reagents (alchemy) and stuff into it so casting requires raw materials too and then let the strength of a cast depend a lot on the used ingredients and your skills.

[Othob Rithol 700]

I like how re-population seems to focus on the process of creating, providing stages of customization. But as Ecrir pointed out, Wurm's improvement focus shifts it a bit.

 

How about something like every 10 or 20 ql items gain a customization 'socket' (for lack of a better term) where items made of other material can be added to adjust the item's effective stats. Most of these should be trade-offs like 'adds damage but takes more damage from use' or 'decays slower but weighs more'. Rare items  like unique bones, (star) gems, moon metals etc should have the best perks obviously. 

[Kadore 926]

I like how re-population seems to focus on the process of creating, providing stages of customization. But as Ecrir pointed out, Wurm's improvement focus shifts it a bit.

 

How about something like every 10 or 20 ql items gain a customization 'socket' (for lack of a better term) where items made of other material can be added to adjust the item's effective stats. Most of these should be trade-offs like 'adds damage but takes more damage from use' or 'decays slower but weighs more'. Rare items  like unique bones, (star) gems, moon metals etc should have the best perks obviously. 

 While the whole rare thing has been overdone imo, I'd still buy in to anything besides creating longsword # 457 for skill, even if just had different models using different wood type pommels, gems in the pommel etc.

 

 Sockets have been overused in most mmo's that just lead to more must have things.

[Aeris 3,764]

Anyway, I don't see the Dev's as treating the game as if it is a beta, so can't agree with that. Just a convenient short statement for those who have various dissatisfactions with the game to hang their hat upon; therefore, the "likes" attached to it, but I still like a lot of your comments, although I am not likely to like this use of the word astute attributed to this unlikely candidate for it. Not that I don't like Aeris, nor not that I do, since it has little to do with that likelihood, likely.

 

=Ayes=

I did not say what I said because I have various dissatisfactions with the game, I said what I said because the devs treat the game like it's in Beta. If you would like me to provide you with the list of all the various ways the game is treated like a game in Beta I would be happy to send you a PM with said list. If for nothing else then just to put an end to your assumption that I have nothing to back it up with. It is a long list, so you might want to withdraw your assumption.

Edited August 17, 2014 by Aeris

[Ayes 3,715]

If you would like me to provide you with the list of all the various ways the game is treated like a game in Beta I would be happy to send you a PM with said list. If for nothing else then just to put an end to your assumption that I have nothing to back it up with.

 

Thank you for your kind offer to provide me with this list of your grievances but I have little interest in reading about all the games shortcomings over the years. I have experienced a good number of them myself and see little need in putting any more focus upon them. Since the new paid staff hiring's I have seen a great deal of progress that has led me to believe that the Dev's do not in fact treat the game as if is a beta, thus my statement made in the post you quoted I hold onto as an accurate one.

 

With the dramatic shift in progress since these paid staff hiring's the game has become more enjoyable to play due to the creative aspects added. This is now where my focus lies and I see a better more progressive future ahead for the game. I realize that there is no way I can convince those with their focus upon past events to let go of them and rather see these positive changes, nor do I feel any responsibility to do so. If the Dev's can establish a more sound financial basis going forward by eliminating some of the financial drains, this will assure a long life ahead for the games future. This is where I see more of a lacking in comparison to more successful online games.

 

=Ayes=

[bdew 2,462]

A system like that would make macro'ing improve a million times easier.

[KunAlt 844]

I'm sick of this excuse used for everything.

 

A computer is by definition is infinitely better than a human at tedious task, that's why we make them. Any kind of GUI interaction can be trivially macroed.

 

Just like the old crafting system with all the submenues, was trivial to navigate for a bot (and the randomization does nothing, if you use anything capable of image matching) while at the same time punishing legitimate players.

 

You fight macroing by making stuff interesting, not by making it even more tedious.

 

I think I say the same everything this topic come up, but there we go again: All the supposed "anti-macro" features like menu order shifting, nesting options, etc, etc. only put a burden in legal players. The so called Bots or Macro programs evolve faster than us, and a player committed to macroing just find new ways to overcome this kind of "defenses" in no time.

 

As bdew well said, the only effective way of figth macros is to make the normal way more rewarding/interesting so there is no real incentive to macro.

[Audrel 2,223]

I'm sick of this excuse used for everything.

 

A computer is by definition is infinitely better than a human at tedious task, that's why we make them. Any kind of GUI interaction can be trivially macroed.

 

Just like the old crafting system with all the submenues, was trivial to navigate for a bot (and the randomization does nothing, if you use anything capable of image matching) while at the same time punishing legitimate players.

 

You fight macroing by making stuff interesting, not by making it even more tedious.

 

Not to mention that even with the shuffling, you have keybinds for about everything and a detailed streaming log file. The bots will bot regardless. The only "player" with an advantage in an ever more elaborate bot-denying scheme is the bot.

[Aeris 3,764]

Ayes: If you have no interest in letting people prove you wrong then stop typing things that give them reason to. You can't try to poke holes in people's statements and given the opportunity to see that you were wrong just pretend like you don't care anymore. Either you do want to discuss it or you don't, you can't choose not to let the facts roll in once you realize you can be proven wrong. All your arguments were regarding a completely different matter and portrayed me as trying to fight against the present, while all they were were were in fact you trying to conceal your own action of even trying to pick a fight about it in the first place.

Edited August 17, 2014 by Aeris

[Mordraug 2,542]

Imma force Ayes to read one anyways... 

 

Xanadu: got one day of testing as 64x64 then one day as 32x32.  Only for a few hours, then land rush, not a single word about when it was gonna open.  When the "within the month" neared its end, people got louder, still not a peep from staff, then suddenly and unnanounced BOOM OPEN.  Then silence, shaking ships, glitched deity influences, aggro concentranted middle of nowhere, and silence from head staff who pretty much inmediately went on vacations.

 

And this for what was supposed to be a landmark in MMO history with one of the biggest non-instanced and non-interrupted game maps ever to be launched.

 

Ships still shake, led animals still end up 3m to your left after a while, influences are still wonked... beta.

[Ayes 3,715]

Ayes: If you have no interest in letting people prove you wrong then stop typing things that give them reason to. You can't try to poke holes in people's statements and given the opportunity to see that you were wrong just pretend like you don't care anymore. Either you do want to discuss it or you don't, you can't choose not to let the facts roll in once you realize you can be proven wrong. All your arguments were regarding a completely different matter and portrayed me as trying to fight against the present, while all they were were were in fact you trying to conceal your own action of even trying to pick a fight about it in the first place.

 

I think you go a bit too far here by instructing me as to what things I should "stop typing". Although I don't agree with others at times I would never presume to tell them to stop responding in any manner they choose to, except of course for personal insults and harassment. Yes, many times I don't care to respond further.

 

I also find that trying to convince others who hold a bias against the game due to past actions of the sole proprietor, that the game has been transformed well beyond this due to the paid staff hiring's, to be a futile endeavor and a pure waste time of composing those thoughts within forum posts. As for labeling the game as being treated by the Dev's a beta under the circumstances beyond this point, I see as having no validity.

 

If you wish to continue to attempt to back up your public statement that the Dev's are treating the game as a beta, that is up to you; but remember, you are the one who made that statement without backing it up with the pertinent details. Then others "liked" it as a statement with nothing presented about the details, which could be anything any of them imagined them to be.

 

Still, I will say you are right about one thing, when I see it is in my estimation no point in responding further, I won't respond further. If I change anyone's opinion one way or the other, it is not my concern. I present my ideas and some will grasp them and others not. Some will agree and some won't, that's the way things go; but, I hardly think that those who would label the game as being treated as if in beta by the Dev's will be convinced otherwise. Long ago I gave up on beating my head against the wall intransigence.

 

=Ayes=

[Kadore 926]

I think you go a bit too far here by instructing me as to what things I should "stop typing". Although I don't agree with others at times I would never presume to tell them to stop responding in any manner they choose to, except of course for personal insults and harassment. Yes, many times I don't care to respond further.

 

I also find that trying to convince others who hold a bias against the game due to past actions of the sole proprietor, that the game has been transformed well beyond this due to the paid staff hiring's, to be a futile endeavor and a pure waste time of composing those thoughts within forum posts. As for labeling the game as being treated by the Dev's a beta under the circumstances beyond this point, I see as having no validity.

 

If you wish to continue to attempt to back up your public statement that the Dev's are treating the game as a beta, that is up to you; but remember, you are the one who made that statement without backing it up with the pertinent details. Then others "liked" it as a statement with nothing presented about the details, which could be anything any of them imagined them to be.

 

Still, I will say you are right about one thing, when I see it is in my estimation no point in responding further, I won't respond further. If I change anyone's opinion one way or the other, it is not my concern. I present my ideas and some will grasp them and others not. Some will agree and some won't, that's the way things go; but, I hardly think that those who would label the game as being treated as if in beta by the Dev's will be convinced otherwise. Long ago I gave up on beating my head against the wall intransigence.

 

=Ayes=

I think the actions of the game back up claims it still feel like beta more than any post can convey, perhaps some set their bar higher than you when they spend their gaming dollars.

[KunAlt 844]

To be honest I´m not worried if the devs think the game is still in beta, I´m more worried of they thinking the game it is at best stage possible (superior crafting system, excellent fight system, etc.) thus stopping development.

 

As long as they recognize there is still room for improvement we are good and we all can keep our hopes high.

[Alec 730]

I think the actions of the game back up claims it still feel like beta more than any post can convey, perhaps some set their bar higher than you when they spend their gaming dollars.

 

Playing for barely over a year now, and I think too that the way the game is and the way the developers behaves makes everything look like a game still on its beta stage.

 

 

I did not say what I said because I have various dissatisfactions with the game, I said what I said because the devs treat the game like it's in Beta. If you would like me to provide you with the list of all the various ways the game is treated like a game in Beta I would be happy to send you a PM with said list. If for nothing else then just to put an end to your assumption that I have nothing to back it up with. It is a long list, so you might want to withdraw your assumption.

 

Could you please post those reasons here to further discuss them? if not could you please PM them to me?

I played and I'm playing a lot of games in beta/alpha stages, and I find really interesting how games are handle and developed, so I'm really curious to see what a more critic veteran Wurm player thinks.

 

Would be really lovely and interesting have for once a conversation about how Wurm really have more beta standards than a "finished"(MMO always have new content added so they never finish unless the dev team stops working) MMO, from a critic and constructive point of view rather than the "is poo fix it" vs "everything is fine, if you don't like it go away" that I've seen on the forums through all this past year.

[darthryan 588]

@Ayes

https://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/621/01/

I also think the game is very much treated as a beta. Despite massive improvements, there's a general attitude of "it is as it is" about the game. Valid concerns such as graphical errors, glitches in little used features, etc, are overlooked because they're not high priority. I understand that the devs have many demands on their time, but it's a fair statement to say that the game is treated as if it were still in beta.

[Klaa 4,872]

Kind of sad, Aeris' astute comment seems to have plateaued at 36 likes, I was hoping it'd hit 50 or maybe 100.

 

Eh I liked it just to see what happens to the popular symbol.

[Alec 730]

Aeris just PM me one hell of an analysis of the game, and I think she really should post it.

 

But anyway, Wurm is still in beta and every single serious journalist in this industry knows it, you just have to look around to see it.

[Kadore 926]

some don't live outside of the vacuum that is the Wurm forums.

[KanePT 699]

So out of curiosity how could the crafting system be tweaked to meet your high expectations? :-)

Variable ingredients for variable results. For example different wood handles would have different "stats" on the tools and gear, but this of course would require improving the item system beyond what it does today, or at the very least have the "hidden" stats revealed (like the action speed modifiers, durability modifiers, etc).

The rares system could be something player-made instead of random-based/exploited. Like a "quest" of sorts, where the player would have to aquire different "rare" materials to make their tools, nothing too fancy, could be stuff as simple as Unicorn Horn or Bison Hoof handles. And again, these different ingredients would create a item with different "stats". The improvement instead of consisting of polish, bang it straight, file, repeat, could have more inticacity, and adding ornaments from other materials, (like gold plating on weapon handles to turn them into gilded handles, leather straps added to tool handles, sone varinsh or enamel for different things, coating blades with olive oil to prevent rust, etc, etc)

There's a ton of stuff that can be improved in Wurm, and you don't even have to go so far as to what i posted, small stuff would do wonders, Wurm is a game of time, not a game of skill, and even as a game of time, its really kinda basic. so any small thing that makes the players time seem better used is a great improvement to Wurm.

So there's these:

 

Well the crafting here is more about improving an item not actually creating them so i would say you need to improve that system to be more fun or at least more user friendly. I would love just to be able to use the improve keybind and as long as you have the tools etc in your inventory it would just use the correct item rather then have to activate a new item every time.

 

 

An "autorepair" option that automatically stops the current queue and repairs the item would take a LOT of the tedium out of imping.

 

Being able to add additional, optional materials during improvement or creation to add small but noticeable adjustements to performance or cosmetic changes would also be great.

 

"Tool box" containers that can contain the entire set of improvement tools for a craft would help the clutter that is my tool chest and make task changing less annoying. I'm not a huge fan of automatic tool selection, but maybe the toolbox could have that function. 

 

 

Adding more variety will be a start, I know some people think the opposite way, but things like brass or bronze, etc should have same uses as iron, same for copper, gold, silver and a item should have different properties a good paired with a downside, like steel being more durable but harder to improve, brass less decay but less resilient than steel or iron, other metals can be harder to enchant but the enchants wear slower, etc.

 

Same for different woods, wen you use steel for making an arrow tip this should contribute to the final arrow properties in addition to wood type.

 

And there is no need for new models for all, maybe just a recoloring, or just keep the same graphics/color as now, since the important thing is the properties.

 

Personally I think a gold/silver armor (make possible to make plate sets from that too) should be only a decorative/good looking thing but crap regarding armor functionality.

 

This is just an example, I have faith that people can come with more/better examples to add some variety and depth to this aspect of crafting system.

 

PD: btw brass and bronze in wurm have wrong proportions and it is very stupid using more than 1kg of supposedly refined components and get 0.10kg of final one.

 

 

Something like this that actually involves you thinking something else than "make item out of predefined recipe → select bind for XYZ tool spam binds for imp-repair-imp-repair-imp-repair"

 

 

Overall when it comes to Wurm's current crafting system I feel that the focus on imping/repetition makes it very boring. You just use a standard recipe to create an item and then you keep spamming the same actions all the time in order to improve the item. The game also lacks in the customization department. The handle on your sword doesn't matter even though it should be quite important for things like accuracy/parrying. Then consider that we've got tons of different wood types, which could each give different characteristics to the sword, and that metal handles could also be used for more choices, and it just seems like a waste of potential that these have no effect. Also, there are no customization options for the blade itself, even though throughout history longsword blades continually changed, going more and more towards a piercing focus over the years in order to counter plate. So customization options which can allow for tweaking of the slashing and piercing damage of said blade would make sense and would make things more interesting.

 

---

 

To be honest I´m not worried if the devs think the game is still in beta, I´m more worried of they thinking the game it is at best stage possible (superior crafting system, excellent fight system, etc.) thus stopping development.

 

As long as they recognize there is still room for improvement we are good and we all can keep our hopes high.

Problem is when they do both, isn't it?

Or they do recognize it needs improvement, but are very reluctant to act on it. I mean any in-depth, "the game needs this", kind of change takes 4+ years to develop, so by 2020 we might have a decent combat in Wurm.

Edited August 19, 2014 by KanePT

[Cyberdragon 20]

Probably agree more with this list 

 

SWG

UO

Horizons

Vanguard

EVE

With the release of the Crius expansion, I find the EVE crafting engine to be more... refined than before. It's pretty fun to use too.