Guards from guard tower runs to the rescue! <--- What a joke

[Mordraug 2,542]

It's more about stressing to the devs that sometimes changing something on PvP doesn't HAVE to affect PvE, OR viceversa at that.

 

In this case would need to make a new npc for freedom guards instead of a single npc with different skins for different kingdoms.

[Lostone 93]

Stop them from hiding in your mine would be nice.

[Kagrenac 812]

It's more about stressing to the devs that sometimes changing something on PvP doesn't HAVE to affect PvE, OR viceversa at that.

 

In this case would need to make a new npc for freedom guards instead of a single npc with different skins for different kingdoms.

Freedom guards exist on chaos, so...

[Audrel 2,223]

I have said it before and I will say it 1000 times again... You cannot balance PvP with PvE rules nor can you balance PvE with PvP rules. They are completely different worlds and gameplay styles. They need their own codes for certain things. Guards and templars are two of them and that's just a start. You have PvE people who don't want to fight anything except a log or a lump. You have PvP people who don't want to craft (you have PvE ones too but...).

 

Most days on PvE, it's going out looking for a fight not letting the fight come to me. Some days I can't be bothered to fight anything. Other days I ride around all day killing anything that moves. That's how I like it. That's how many PvE people like it. That's not how it will be when a mob can get a mile inside your deed before a tower guard can get to it. Templars are a bit faster but they are still really weak for those who don't want to fight anything or just can't because they don't have the armor or weapons to do so. For a long time, armor and weapons were of little concern to me on PvE. If I could kill a wolf and a bear, I was set. They were mainly the ones who came onto the deed.

I had 17 FS when the guards were nerfed. I have 72 now. My gameplay style was affected by shitty guards just as much as any PvP player's was affected by them killing their horse as they passed. So it runs both ways. I get that. It shouldn't be that way but it is. Until the team quits balancing BOTH with the same rules, it's going to be a back and forth. 

[Miretta 1,415]

i think they are too slow now, they are barely moving and sometimes you need to call them twice to get even ALL tower guards for some reason. Besides that I can't see the reason for slowing them down in PVP either, they are not really hitting hard and most people on pvp are moving with horses anyway O.o and those who don't move around a tower big time. But on pvp it's really annoying when a newbie is about to to die and then guard towers crawl behind a spider that is even too fast to outrun for most people on foot...

[Mordraug 2,542]

Freedom guards exist on chaos, so...

[Alec 728]

It's more about stressing to the devs that sometimes changing something on PvP doesn't HAVE to affect PvE, OR viceversa at that.

 

In this case would need to make a new npc for freedom guards instead of a single npc with different skins for different kingdoms.

[KunAlt 844]

Please fix guards and templars.

[KunAlt 844]

srry. dp

Edited July 28, 2014 by KunAlt

[Mordraug 2,542]

How about we let the devs know that they have to pay attention to what they do, instead of just blaming everyone that plays on a PvP server? =P

[Rozwell 24]

Smh... people want the guards to hold their hands and walk them around. Every game has risk, and without that, you're left with nothing but a building game.

[GorgonKain 355]

"Wurm is not really a game about survival... it is a game about getting chased through the woods and eaten by bears"...

 

If you want total peace from mobs, build tall walls and hire more than one templar, then never leave your deed. Otherwise, a lot of people want stronger and more challenging creatures to fight, rather than even more hand-holding. It is hard to balance these play styles certainly. What I will say, entirely from my own enjoyment of the game, is that if there is no risk, it is no fun. That is a large reason I moved to Chaos personally. As it is there is nothing that can stop you after a concerted day's grinding Fighting. 

 

As it stands, there is a nice balance imo on PvE servers. Uniques provide that greater challenge and risk of death, and if you really don't want to fight anything, take my advice above. If you do not want to pay for the extra Templars, well sorry, because that is your greatest safety net, and the only one I will ever vote for implementing. 

[joedobo 1,187]

"Wurm is not really a game about survival... it is a game about getting chased through the woods and eaten by bears"...

 

[GorgonKain 355]

Any game is about the developer's vision and world, not yours. You just live there, albeit you have more control in the worlds of Wurm then many other games, but you choose to play the game. Not your game, their game. 

[Rainbow 11]

"Wurm is not really a game about survival... it is a game about getting chased through the woods and eaten by bears"...

 

If you want total peace from mobs, build tall walls and hire more than one templar, then never leave your deed. Otherwise, a lot of people want stronger and more challenging creatures to fight, rather than even more hand-holding. It is hard to balance these play styles certainly. What I will say, entirely from my own enjoyment of the game, is that if there is no risk, it is no fun. That is a large reason I moved to Chaos personally. As it is there is nothing that can stop you after a concerted day's grinding Fighting. 

 

As it stands, there is a nice balance imo on PvE servers. Uniques provide that greater challenge and risk of death, and if you really don't want to fight anything, take my advice above. If you do not want to pay for the extra Templars, well sorry, because that is your greatest safety net, and the only one I will ever vote for implementing. 

[conmcb25 378]

I am not going to get into this debate, but I will offer this advice.

 

Now granted I was being chased by 1 sea serpent not two.

 

But I was able to kite the serpent over to a guard tower near shore and get the guards engaged, and get away, it didnt happen until the second pass, but I was able to do it. Now granted that was on Indy, which has a lot more infrastructure than Xanadu does right now, but just something to keep in the back of your mind should you encounter this problem again.

 

Take a break for a couple of days, and Good luck

[Youngsoldier 282]

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/105531-fix-tower-guard-speed-on-pvp-servers/

[GorgonKain 355]

I certainly never said that people should leave Wurm, just that they have little right to claim that the game is broken or wrong because it does not suit their particular game play style. I didn't even say "If you don't like it leave!". My position is more along the line, "If you don't like it, make a forum suggestion, and hope for the best." 

 

As for dragons, yeah they can come along and steamroll your deed. Some of us like this, some don't. Again, it is not up to the player to decide how these features are managed, it is up to the developers. If they want a little deed terrorizing going on, you are still buying into that vision. 

 

If a player really, really does not want to fight they may even be able to pay for an entourage of players to protect them, or join a large alliance that will help with these situations. The beauty of Wurm is that there are always options, but I think that blinds people into demanding their options only. 

[joedobo 1,187]

Any game is about the developer's vision and world, not yours. You just live there, albeit you have more control in the worlds of Wurm then many other games, but you choose to play the game. Not your game, their game. 

Minecraft is proof your wrong. And any other game where either customer's wishes comes first or the game allows players to mod it to their liking.

 

It may not be [a player's] game but it sure as heck is the player money that allows the game to exist. There is a reason why so many industries recognize that customer desires are paramount.

[GorgonKain 355]

Wurm does not allow player modding, so your point is moot Joe. Also, as I have said in other threads, this game existed before Rolf got paid for it, and it can, if he so chose to, exist without getting paid for it. This is not Minecraft, thank the lords of the seven hells, and Wurm operates on a different model then player mod-able games do. 

[Audrel 2,223]

 If you do not want to pay for the extra Templars, well sorry, because that is your greatest safety net, and the only one I will ever vote for implementing. 

 

I pay enough for Wurm Online I do believe. It's 4 times more expensive to play this game than any other subscription MMO I have ever tried. On top of your premium subscription, you have to buy a form to make a deed that you have to keep paying for on top of the purchase price and your premium price because they have seen to it that to not pay for a deed is to make your real world value items an open grab bag for whomever wants to come along and steal it. And even with a deed on PvE you can't guarantee your items are safe outside of your inventory because the permissions are inadequate and often broken. Then you have those who love the way things are broken and wish them to stay broken so they can circumvent and/or exploit the mechanics flaws to pillage you with a zero reimbursement policy. Your nerf loss is their gain, you know. They're hardly like to report it when they find it and they are very likely to be vocal against it being fixed.

 

The risk of death is not the problem. The risk of constantly changing and never documented ways to find death through nerfs of armor, weapons, mobs, permissions, mechanics, and "grey area" rules is. I have absolutely no problem with sea serpents or dragons or troll kings running around. I have a problem with you can't get away from the damn things by even sailing over half way across a server because they are up your arse the whole time and never get far enough to lose aggro. The only reason I lived through that ###### in the OP is because I knew a person who had a deed in the direction I was sailing and I had been there before, knew I would have a minimal crawl speed into the wind sail I would likely survive, and lastly the hope that they still had the same layout on their deed as when I visited last so I could bail my ship and run for their fences until the things went away - which they did not do by the way. One of them decided to camp my ship. Had I not been able to call a guard after about 90 shouts for him to actually come so he could take aggro, I might still be standing there waiting for a mob to get off my boat.

 

EDIT: PS, I never said I wanted my hand held. I wanted a guard to engage the creature and pull aggro so I could choose to not fight a mob I cannot kill solo. I guess it would have been better for the whole Wurm community for me to just /suicide and leave all my ###### floating in the ocean and never question why a mob would chase you however many hundreds of tiles wide Release is and still never give up the chase.

Edited July 28, 2014 by Audrel

[joedobo 1,187]

Wurm does not allow player modding, so your point is moot Joe. Also, as I have said in other threads, this game existed before Rolf got paid for it, and it can, if he so chose to, exist without getting paid for it. This is not Minecraft, thank the lords of the seven hells, and Wurm operates on a different model then player mod-able games do. 

 

Yes, Wurm can do as it pleases. I expect it to continue to also. This won't change my opinion that Wurm could be so much more if it would strive to please more then one type of player.

[Rainbow 11]

Gongorkain sorry, yes, you did not say "Leave Wurm".  However, the fact is that perhaps some people may think that way if the vision they bought into, keeps changing.  You said:

 

 

 

"If you want total peace from mobs, build tall walls and hire more than one templar, then never leave your deed. "  "If you do not want to pay for the extra Templars, well sorry, because that is your greatest safety net, and the only one I will ever vote for implementing. "

 

I believe dragons at first did not hit walls just for the reasons you are mentioning here:  They were never supposed to terrorize people who do not want to leave their deeds and who are willing to pay for a templar to protect themselves.  Then, of course, some folks decided to exploit this by penning dragons and harvesting the eggs. Some other folks made a noise about this and then dragons were allowed to target and bash walls, so they could not be penned indefinitely.  The repercussion of this was that now they can flatten deed walls, even those you suggested to build for deed protection namely tall walls.  They then proceed to destroy your deed for which you paid and for which you hired a templar to protect you from mobs and which you walled with tall walls, just as you suggested.  Now, because guards are not as strong as a lot of people think, the mobs entering your deed through a hole they made in your tall wall, won't be killed (either because they are a unique, or because guards cannot kill stronger creatures like champion trolls, let alone a dragon).  As I said before:  It used to be a case of "If you play PVE you just need to grind your fighting to 70, get some decent armour and a decent weapon, and you are relatively safe when you venture out of your deed (which, if walled by tall walls and a paid for templar, would be 100% safe)."  Now it is a case of - Tall walls won't protect you , neither will a templar or three.  You are not safe on your paid for, walled and templared deed, neither are you safe when you sail around even with a friend who also happens to have over 70 FS, decent armour and a decent weapon.  Why?  Because the vision has now changed, hasn't it?  I don't think local deed terrorizing was the goal here, tbh.  I believe stopping the penning of dragons was the goal, and the deed terrorizing was just the result.  Sea serpents?  Yes sure, they provide a challenge for those who choose to fight them, but yes, not allowing them to stop aggro is not on, especially given how tower guards are now as slow as snails.  

 

You suggest "pay for extra templars" and "pay for a posse of people to come kill the dragon".  Why is this necessary?  If someone did what you suggested, namely build tall walls and hired a templar, why should they PAY more to get mobs now changed to flatten walls, killed?  Like I said before, more templars won't help because they don't kill uniques.  Furthermore, I don't think it is fair to ask people to pay more to play a game if they want to stay on their deed and craft. 

[Battlepaw 585]

Blame PvP

They used to be useful.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Battlepaw

[Audrel 2,223]

I still can't figure out how Rolf came to the decison they had to be nerfed in the first place based on two diffrent people, and at that they both had diffrent ways they wanted them nerfed in the topic we think inspired the change.    

 

Instead of proposeing the idea of changes he just went ahead and nerfed them into the ground, and borked their pathing to boot.  (which was already stupidly screwed up)    Anyways, the decision should at least be reversed on Freedom, as there is really no logical reason to have them nerfed there.     Even on Chaos, I had no idea why they were nerfed, yes the guards could catch you before the nerf if they got a few hits on your horse, but having a pet bison and and staying the hell away from large packs, isolating guards and traving in groups for saftey went a long way to negitating their effects.    The only thing the change really benifited was alts, not mounted players that have a pet, and can easily outrun the guards anyways.