One Ruleset to Rule them All (discussion)

[BrQQQ 2,854]

You could very easily defend pvp deeds by putting it inbetween a lot of non-pvp deeds.

PvP and PvE just doesn't combine well in a big sandbox game. Raiding or PvP in general can already be very frustrating due to odd mechanics or bugs. When you add certain places that are considered 'non-pvp' and therefore invulnerable, it is always going to be abused in some way that makes PvP even more frustrating.

[Aflacduck 2,174]

You could very easily defend pvp deeds by putting it inbetween a lot of non-pvp deeds.

PvP and PvE just doesn't combine well in a big sandbox game. Raiding or PvP in general can already be very frustrating due to odd mechanics or bugs. When you add certain places that are considered 'non-pvp' and therefore invulnerable, it is always going to be abused in some way that makes PvP even more frustrating.

Like having everyone be in a village that's flagged for PvP, then storing everything they own in a village ten tiles away that's not flagged for PvP. Or flagging yourself as non-pvp and running up to enemy deeds to scout them, then running back. 

Keep the rules and servers separate. I'd rather not have a bunch of arbitrary rules dictating how I play a sandbox game, and I'd rather not have to deal with being surrounded in local by white names and having to guess whether or not I can actually fight them.

Edited July 13, 2014 by Aflacduck

[Ulviirala 431]

The majority of PvE only players does not want to PvP in their homes, that's a disaster that we've seen 5 years ago, when the original home servers located east and west of the PvP server (chaos, formerly Wild) got forced into full scale Kingdom vs Kingdom PvP.

The Epic islands, if I understood it right, is something that branched out from the aforementioned economic disaster for Wurm called KvK, which was what Rolf had imagined Wurm to be all along, but was resented by large parts of the PvE playerbase with critique and unsubscribing to quit for good. PvE deeds are basically served on a platter for a group of PvPers, nobody built with PvP defense in mind, and we don't want to - we make things pretty here... mostly.

Don't burden the people who are not interested with opt-in PvP, and bring the practises of PvP gameplay and shenanigans in Wurm to the Freedom Isles PvE servers. If you want PvP, you have places you can go to.

I don't think that we want history to repeat itself and cause a stir with heavy repercussions. Again.

[madnezz 555]

You would have lost me for one, if Chaos was not connected to the rest of freedom. Your problem is with one group of PvP players Aum, and that is MR. As stated elsewhere, every playerbase has toxic players, and most of them on Chaos gravitate to that group.

 

Pardon?  Toxic players?  

 

Are you still referring to the red & black dragon slaying on P&R of dragons we had penned for 2 years and paid the upkeep to do so?  Or are you referring to the countless other slayings we were invited to and didn't require any assistance to actually kill the unique?  

 

Or are you calling us toxic because we play a game of kingdom warfare as it was intended, ie. we raid deeds and expand our kingdom.

 

Either way you are way out of line to slander our Kingdom given the minutia of your knowledge regarding MR that consists primarily of falsehoods that were regurgitated to you by common thieves and pathetic trolls.

Edited July 14, 2014 by madnezz

[Wossoo 1,915]

As a player I see no reason to merge the four distinct rulesets into one.

 

Freedom PvE is great for people who want to play the safe, economy and crafting game.

Freedom PvP / KvK (chaos) is great for those people on Freedom PvE who want to use their hard earned skills, equipment, etc. to fight each other and play with a little more risk, and take part in Kingdom vs. Kingdom territorial war.

Epic (Elevation) is great for those who want faster paced, full PvP and KvK territorial war with less emphasis on grinding and spending months crafting.

Epic (Home Servers) are great for those who want to play the full PvP game but with much more safety than they would have on Elevation, and no KvK territorial war.

 

I don't see how you can bring those four distinct playing styles into one unified ruleset without completely destroying what makes each of them good. You'd just disappoint everyone. And what would we actually get out of it that we can't already have?

 

There's simply no reason for it. If anyone on Freedom PvE wants a taste of opt-in PvP, then make an Epic portal. Honestly you can get 70fs here on Epic in a day if you buy some equipment and spend the whole day grinding, or you can play the long game and switch back and forth between Epic and Freedom whenever you want, (minus the 1 hour cooldown). Maybe one day you'll want to help your kingdom fight off some enemies on Epic while the next day crafting in peace on Xanadu or wherever. If you really don't want to get your skills up on Epic, it's not that hard to sail to Chaos and join a kingdom and play at war there.

[Redd 4,281]

someone give demondan a hug

 

I find it very funny you can say these kind of things. 

 

In fact, a group of my so called "toxic" kingdom killed you not too long ago, and on that death you lost a load of rare tools. You were saying that you would quit without them. In an act of kindness, some of our players gave you back some of your rare tools because they didnt want to see you quit.

 

You say we are the toxic players, take another look.

[Coastis 321]

Pardon?  Toxic players?  

 

Are you still referring to the red & black dragon slaying on P&R of dragons we had penned for 2 years and paid the upkeep to do so?

 

Fact - MR griefed a community event on Pristine and then proceeded to abuse every single person on the server. I'd say that's pretty toxic...

[demondan 1,865]

You mean the time when the head GM came and ruled that guilty pristine freedomers were griefing an invited MR community event that had 20+ people travel 10hrs + ? Now that is a fact.

There have even been times when freedomers are being told in their team chats to drag the uniques over to unsuspecting new MR players to get them killed before preparation was complete. Is this the kind of behaviour you would advocate against your own freedomers ? Surely not, and most of MR have lived on freedom from many years.

If people just talked to us they would find that we are a nice bunch of people, but to flame and grief them in freedom chat while griefing their attempts to stay a unique, well they have a right to verbally defend themselves too.

We have our own community sign ups for slayings, as do you.. But it is certainly not a dibs system. Besides, the kind of behaviour displayed that day was terrible on both sides, and shouldn't have happened. Hopefully now as uniques are constantly respawning means people won't be so defensive about unique slayings.

Edited July 14, 2014 by demondan

[Amber 337]

The codes need much more separation NOT to be combined into one!! 

 

My biggest complaint about Wurm has always been that because of the way it's coded pve play is constantly being nerfed & new features not added because they break pvp play. We need a totally separate code for pvp to eliminate the problem IMO. 

[Teksan 22]

Not a good idea to force a merge.

 

Somehow I just don't see General Patton and John Lennon looking forward to spending some quality time playing Wurm together.

 

Would you really want to be the mediator putting them in the same room, then coming up with a set of rules they're both going to be happy with and they'll suddenly sing coombaya while loading up the M60?  Do they ride off into the sunset in the Sherman or the flower-painted VW?

 

You're entering a world of hurt here, a world of hurt.  Just put the rule book down and back away slowly, there's still time.

[Shiraek 464]

1. I don't see it ever working without severely compromising one or more play styles

Completely empty thought process anyway because you can't fit the playerbase on one server (island) with the current server code

There are NOT three different code bases. Admittedly wurm seems to do an awful job of it but there is one code base and certain things within it are switched on or off depending on ruleset. Sadly not enough things obey the switch...

[Tissotx 217]

Epic: Close these servers down.

Chaos: Same Ruleset, but a map reset.

Freedom: Open up pvp, but no deed raiding. And killing your own freeedom kingdom will make u go unlawful.

[KunAlt 844]

Epic: Close these servers down.

Chaos: Same Ruleset, but a map reset.

Freedom: Open up pvp, but no deed raiding. And killing your own freeedom kingdom will make u go unlawful.

 

next step will be close the deserted ex freedom servers and look for another job

[Mordraug 2,542]

Pardon?  Toxic players?  

 

Are you still referring to the red & black dragon slaying on P&R of dragons we had penned for 2 years and paid the upkeep to do so?  Or are you referring to the countless other slayings we were invited to and didn't require any assistance to actually kill the unique?  

 

Or are you calling us toxic because we play a game of kingdom warfare as it was intended, ie. we raid deeds and expand our kingdom.

 

Either way you are way out of line to slander our Kingdom given the minutia of your knowledge regarding MR that consists primarily of falsehoods that were regurgitated to you by common thieves and pathetic trolls.

 

Well that explains a lot...... here's a tip about changing your image... stop acting like it =P

[eyerobot 202]

Theres pvp and theres non pvp. If I have to be bombarded with pvp conversations it's irritating enough. But to have it going on next door to me would kill any interest i have in this game.  The difference is pvp players always want fresh meat for their wars, And constant income to fund it.So their always recruiting.  While non pvp players have no need to recruit anyone, And enjoy building and profiting ingame. And rarely rely on other people for help.  There is no middle ground when one side uses the other at every opportunity. And the other side has absolutely no use for the first side.  So why would we ever want pvp going on near us?  Simple we wouldn't.  And so far as saving the devs more work. I really don't see them getting much done at any given time. So they may as well write two separate sets of code. Then they would have an excuse for everything in the game never getting fixed.

[Eyesgood 2,121]

Theres pvp and theres non pvp. If I have to be bombarded with pvp conversations it's irritating enough. But to have it going on next door to me would kill any interest i have in this game.  The difference is pvp players always want fresh meat for their wars, And constant income to fund it.So their always recruiting.  While non pvp players have no need to recruit anyone, And enjoy building and profiting ingame. And rarely rely on other people for help.  There is no middle ground when one side uses the other at every opportunity. And the other side has absolutely no use for the first side.  So why would we ever want pvp going on near us?  Simple we wouldn't.  And so far as saving the devs more work. I really don't see them getting much done at any given time. So they may as well write two separate sets of code. Then they would have an excuse for everything in the game never getting fixed.

 

Regarding your point about the devs and work, I am a full-time developer and let me just say that customers almost never see or know the complexities and challenges of the smallest of features.  If you think something took a few hours to implement, it likely took a few days or even weeks.  But you will never see that in the product.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Eyesgood

[puncher 324]

Regarding your point about the devs and work, I am a full-time developer and let me just say that customers almost never see or know the complexities and challenges of the smallest of features.  If you think something took a few hours to implement, it likely took a few days or even weeks.  But you will never see that in the product.

Just as a small defense to your average customer.. Most programmers I know could not explain anything near to plain english what they did to make it work.  Also a lot of programmers ive known have a bit of a were better then they are Tech supergeek mentaility.. You want customers to understand your pain then Id suggest one learns how to take tech yak and turn it into a visual diagram so the customer can get a grasp as well.  Not putting down programmers they do a good job..but often suck at the comms bit with no techs

[Drayka 485]

Seems to me like people think PvE is the opposite of PvP.

 

Imagine this as a mental exercise.

 

A server with no monsters, and all the normal wildlife is passive or skittish of players. Imagine that there are Dragons, but the don't attack players, can't be killed by players and you rarely see one anyway. Imagine that you can't terraform, woodcut, build, farm, mine or shipbuild except in large groups, and even then it would take a long time. Imagine you couldn't pick up more than a human could carry alone. Imagine a server without armour or weapons, just bows or spears for hunting game and vanity or seasonal clothing. Imagine there are vast enchanted forests and enchanted grasslands that are unchangable, where you can see dryads and nymphs and unicorns, as long as you don't get too close. Imagine that there were no deeds, no coinage, no combat spells, no traders, no merchants. Imagine a world where trees and animals aged at a normal rate, just in wurm years, and decay was similar to what you would expect in RL on a Wurm timeframe.

 

Imagine playing on a server like that, imagine the people who would want to play on that sort of server. Now tell me about the opposite of PvP.

[LorenaMontana 3,008]

Epic: Close these servers down.

Chaos: Same Ruleset, but a map reset.

Freedom: Open up pvp, but no deed raiding. And killing your own freeedom kingdom will make u go unlawful.

U should be closed down, stop talking trash buddy

[Klaa 4,872]

>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11AIVdSsP_A

[Eyesgood 2,121]

Just as a small defense to your average customer.. Most programmers I know could not explain anything near to plain english what they did to make it work.  Also a lot of programmers ive known have a bit of a were better then they are Tech supergeek mentaility.. You want customers to understand your pain then Id suggest one learns how to take tech yak and turn it into a visual diagram so the customer can get a grasp as well.  Not putting down programmers they do a good job..but often suck at the comms bit with no techs

 

I definitely do not dispute your observations.  There are many soft skills that developers would do good to learn, not the least of which is what you mention about communicating.  

 

Cheers.