Fix tower guard speed on pvp servers

[SmeJack 5,798]

Archery isn't just for horses and there are just as many people using mauls and axes as there are using longswords  Even after the last weapon buff that saw sickles being used in pvp and med mauls got given more damage that is not consistent with the small and large on the bigger scale of weapon types. As for shields, every type is used its a preference thing just like weapons.

 

Back on topic for the guards I think they are fine as they are now, they were not a large threat no the change imo was more about making the game enjoyable and not getting frustrated with odd mechanics that get in the way of fighting people because that's what we want right? PvP and not PvE on the way. If you want to outrun tower guards on a cart because your idea of fun is looting bsb's then more power to you have fun with that, perhaps you would have more fun if they killed you while you were doing it? The threat and thrill should be the players, not the guards.

[MetalDragon 1,630]

Making them a pain made you have more choices for game play. Capture the towers and use a said route with no issues or don't capture them and cause players to think their travel routes around to avoid the towers.

Now nobody cares and just runs though them because they don't do . These are supposed to deter you. They no longer do this.

[Battlepaw 585]

I kinda like it how it is now; tower guards will still be helpful if a fight actually takes place around a guard tower (if you stop to fight and the guards catch up and join in) - but they are slow enough that they are not going to be a issue if you are roaming around. I think it should be like this; we are here to fight players and not guards.

 

Maybe it can be changed on Epic if Epic players decide they want it since last time I was there there was hardly any guard towers; but on Chaos please consider we have 1000+ towers plastered all over the map; the speeds guards had before meant if you wanted to head into enemy territory you just spent hours killing guards. 

 

No one just "roams around" in enemy territory with anything but an alt Gavin, and if you think your fooling anyone your mistaken.   When you enter enemy teritory, its with as many  friends as possible on horses, preferably 5-6 speed horses with gear.   You could easily outrun guards even under the old system.  the ONLY thing this benifits is noob alts on foot, which we know are widely used in PvP as scouts, hell even in the stupid volcano thread of nerdrage drama doom, you see screenshots of Daolin with his alt he ran straight into MR territory right up to Halmak, right past all those towers.   The only reason this was changed was to facilitate the movement of those alts.   There was no other reason to change it.         

Edited July 8, 2014 by Battlepaw

[Youngsoldier 282]

Archery isn't just for horses and there are just as many people using mauls and axes as there are using longswords  Even after the last weapon buff that saw sickles being used in pvp and med mauls got given more damage that is not consistent with the small and large on the bigger scale of weapon types. As for shields, every type is used its a preference thing just like weapons.

 

Back on topic for the guards I think they are fine as they are now, they were not a large threat no the change imo was more about making the game enjoyable and not getting frustrated with odd mechanics that get in the way of fighting people because that's what we want right? PvP and not PvE on the way. If you want to outrun tower guards on a cart because your idea of fun is looting bsb's then more power to you have fun with that, perhaps you would have more fun if they killed you while you were doing it? The threat and thrill should be the players, not the guards.

 

Then just remove towers altogether if you are going to stand behind that B.S. argument?

 

The odd mechanic was the guards hitting the horses so much not there speed.

 

If you think it is normal to call guards on an enemy on foot and have them walk out of range before the guards even get to them then just remove them, eh bloke? Guards had most of their use for new players, so much for that eh, chap?

[Youngsoldier 282]

No one just "roams around" in enemy territory with anything but an alt Gavin, and if you think your fooling anyone your mistaken.   When you enter enemy teritory, its with as many  friends as possible on horses, preferably 5-6 speed horses with gear.   You could easily outrun guards even under the old system.  the ONLY thing this benifits is noob alts on foot, which we know are widely used in PvP as scouts, hell even in the stupid volcano thread of nerdrage drama doom, you see screenshots of Daolin with his alt he ran straight into MR territory right up to Halmak, right past all those towers.   The only reason this was changed was to facilitate the movement of those alts.   There was no other reason to change it.         

 

yep.

[Youngsoldier 282]

Making them a pain made you have more choices for game play. Capture the towers and use a said route with no issues or don't capture them and cause players to think their travel routes around to avoid the towers.

Now nobody cares and just runs though them because they don't do ######. These are supposed to deter you. They no longer do this.

 

I agree with alot of your posts mate. This one is no exception.

[Battlepaw 585]

Young I support your enthusiasm, but proper posting etiquette , is not to double post  (or triple post), if you think of something later, just quickly edit you post before the next person goes, or wait until they post mate.  

 

That said, this isn't a new topic, back when the change first came out people were saying it wouldn't have a bit impact, but it has.  It's affected PvE players on Freedom and PvP environment here, to make everything more alt-friendly, which makes little sense after all the effort given by the devlopment team to keep non-prem alts from repairing towers, giving affinities, etc.   Something went wrong, somewhere, and I can only speculate that someone told a real wopper to convince anyone that this would benifit pvp.   

 

I don't remember spending hours killing guards under the old system, yes it was challenging, but that is what going into enemy territory should mean,  its the whole point of waging territory warfare is to hold land, not just wasting time to build towers that do nothing to protect it.   But you can still bash towers while guards stand around picking their noses and sitting on their butts, you can wall in towers, make hours of work building the things completely useless with a few round pole fences, etc.   

 

Right when some serious work needs to be done to the tower guards, Rolf goes and nerfs the speed and makes them even more useless.    I understand we shouldn't be fighting NPCs constantly but there should be some more active resistance to stupid tactics like walling in, etc.   The same with any non-prem spy alts zipping through territory.  

[Emoo 4,357]

Why was this posted on the town square rather than the suggestion board?

[MetalDragon 1,630]

Same reason certain players posted suggestions on the chaos boards.

[Gavin 971]

No one just "roams around" in enemy territory with anything but an alt Gavin, and if you think your fooling anyone your mistaken.   When you enter enemy teritory, its with as many  friends as possible on horses, preferably 5-6 speed horses with gear      

 

Would you not agree that this is a problem and perhaps could be discouraged somehow? (ie making it non-suicidal to run around in enemy territory without a gank squad backing you up)

 

With that said I could agree with making guards run full speed if they are called onto a target; that way in PvP they will still be useful but they won't defend your kingdom for you. I also could totally get behind the game somehow determining 'alts' and have the guards run full speed after them. Maybe use a combination of a global KOS system and also checking if the account has zero skills or has died heaps recently.

[MrGARY 12,421]

I don't remember spending hours killing guards under the old system, yes it was challenging, but that is what going into enemy territory should mean,  its the whole point of waging territory warfare is to hold land, not just wasting time to build towers that do nothing to protect it.

 

Challenging?  The challenge is supposed to be getting kills and not dying to enemy players, not having to deal with 5 guards chasing you around, until the next tower 50 tiles away, getting in the way when you DO find people.

 

The towers are made to give the land 'control' imo, not protect it.  Protecting it is up to the players, when the death tab pops with the tower name/number on it, or defense advisor sees a tower being bashed, that's your job to go protect your lands.

 

I'm not even sure how someone can suggest that guards can protect anything at all no matter what, when one person can go kill all 5 guards, and then bash the tower alone killing every guard that respawns, until the tower is gone.

[Sharkin 1,319]

I was the one who made the suggestion for this change. Before the change tower guards would always go for your horse, when you finally lost them you were at another tower with new guards. Even naked players had trouble running away from them. Tower guards should assist, not do the job for you.

If a battle takes place, the guards will catch up and assist you. I see no problem there.

Reverting this change will make it harder to roam again. We live on a PVP server right? Why be against something that contributes to pvp? Hmmm.

I made this suggestion for pvp, mainly Chaos. I know this caused trouble on freedom since the guards don't always catch up. I wouldn't mind if freedom get fast guards again, but is it possible with code split?

[Toplel 71]

No one just "roams around" in enemy territory with anything but an alt Gavin, and if you think your fooling anyone your mistaken. When you enter enemy teritory, its with as many friends as possible on horses, preferably 5-6 speed horses with gear. You could easily outrun guards even under the old system. the ONLY thing this benifits is noob alts on foot, which we know are widely used in PvP as scouts, hell even in the stupid volcano thread of nerdrage drama doom, you see screenshots of Daolin with his alt he ran straight into MR territory right up to Halmak, right past all those towers. The only reason this was changed was to facilitate the movement of those alts. There was no other reason to change it.

Uhh hello!

[Stormi 407]

People going as far as saying changes were made because of "pvpers crying" is probably the most ridiculous thing I've ever read.

 

I didn't think people could have such a pseudo sense of education when it comes to game balance. Maybe that's what all the zombified "impalong" fanatics start to think after a while from sitting on a zero threat, mindless crafting server pressing the same button over and over again.

Edited July 9, 2014 by Stormi

[Battlepaw 585]

Would you not agree that this is a problem and perhaps could be discouraged somehow? (ie making it non-suicidal to run around in enemy territory without a gank squad backing you up)

 

With that said I could agree with making guards run full speed if they are called onto a target; that way in PvP they will still be useful but they won't defend your kingdom for you. I also could totally get behind the game somehow determining 'alts' and have the guards run full speed after them. Maybe use a combination of a global KOS system and also checking if the account has zero skills or has died heaps recently.

 

The whole point of having NPC guards is that you can't be everywhere at once.  Wurm's lands are on a huge scale, and Chaos is massive.  I really don't see the point of guard towers atm, beyond trying to stop deeds from going up, guards have rarely actually stopped players,  and players can just fence them in, and do it in mere minutes, when a guard tower takes massive investments of time and resources to construct.  

 

They also serve as beacons for PvP and bring players to fight over control, or should be, instead players can just fence them in if they want to bypass them.    The only towers they need to capture are the ones in the are they want to put a deed down.     It's really stupid, when they are already broken enough.  The nerfed speed just compounds the problem.    

 

Everything you just said in your statement has loopholes, you don't always need to use the same spy alt, you can rotate them if you know the timer.   I've had to put up with spy alts for years, and there should be more ways that towers can combat them. Guards should automatically attack any enemy constructing something in it's influence, and should summon increasing waves of guards, because walling off a tower put it out of action just as surely as capping it.   When an enemy is building a structure in tower influence it should give some kind of alert just as surely as being bashed or capped does.    

[Youngsoldier 282]

Challenging?  The challenge is supposed to be getting kills and not dying to enemy players, not having to deal with 5 guards chasing you around, until the next tower 50 tiles away, getting in the way when you DO find people.

 

The towers are made to give the land 'control' imo, not protect it.  Protecting it is up to the players, when the death tab pops with the tower name/number on it, or defense advisor sees a tower being bashed, that's your job to go protect your lands.

 

I'm not even sure how someone can suggest that guards can protect anything at all no matter what, when one person can go kill all 5 guards, and then bash the tower alone killing every guard that respawns, until the tower is gone.

 

Then why you so scurred bro?

[MaurizioAM 919]

I don't see any problems at all with bring back the old speed. Heck the old speed wasn't even that bad... what the old speed does is add the fact that an enemy shouldnt be able to just roam around on foot in enemy territory... in guard tower areas you should be ready to fight or flee not be able to just outrun guards.

With that being said you were still able to outrun guards with the old speed it just meant that you would not be able to screw up much.

[Druidnature 1,118]

People going as far as saying changes were made because of "pvpers crying" is probably the most ridiculous thing I've ever read.

I didn't think people could have such a pseudo sense of education when it comes to game balance. Maybe that's what all the zombified "impalong" fanatics start to think after a while from sitting on a zero threat, mindless crafting server pressing the same button over and over again.

In this case, they are correct. It was changed due to PvP (I can't remember which kingdom, but doesn't really matter) were crying about it. Two days later, it was changed.

[Audrel 2,223]

People going as far as saying changes were made because of "pvpers crying" is probably the most ridiculous thing I've ever read.

 

I didn't think people could have such a pseudo sense of education when it comes to game balance. Maybe that's what all the zombified "impalong" fanatics start to think after a while from sitting on a zero threat, mindless crafting server pressing the same button over and over again.

 

You PvP and some people craft. You go play on PvP so you can fight other players. They play on PvE so they can stand in a safe zone and press the same button over and over. The servers need separate rules for some mechanics. It's not a matter of balance, it's a matter of playstyle. You can't balance PvP when it changes the balance in PvE and the same in reverse. They need separate rules. A psuedo sense of education when it comes to balance is to think you can balance two totally different kinds of servers with the same rules. This same argument happens in Wurm over and over again because balancing one unbalances the other. It's happened over armor, weapons, mob resistances, tower guards, templars, and decorations in patches vs new PvP stuff in patches. It's going to keep happening over and over until there are two systems each with their own balances. An education in balance would start with realizing there will never be a balanced anything when you pull sand from a scale on a different table to try to balance a scale on this one.

[Stormi 407]

You PvP and some people craft. You go play on PvP so you can fight other players. They play on PvE so they can stand in a safe zone and press the same button over and over. The servers need separate rules for some mechanics. It's not a matter of balance, it's a matter of playstyle. You can't balance PvP when it changes the balance in PvE and the same in reverse. They need separate rules. A psuedo sense of education when it comes to balance is to think you can balance two totally different kinds of servers with the same rules. This same argument happens in Wurm over and over again because balancing one unbalances the other. It's happened over armor, weapons, mob resistances, tower guards, templars, and decorations in patches vs new PvP stuff in patches. It's going to keep happening over and over until there are two systems each with their own balances. An education in balance would start with realizing there will never be a balanced anything when you pull sand from a scale on a different table to try to balance a scale on this one.

 

That's the point I was trying to make. It wasn't implemented because of "PVPers crying", it was implemented because someone upstairs doesn't know what they're doing. But no, ignorance will lead these people to believe that just because PVPers wanted it changed means it has to effect the entire game.

Edited July 9, 2014 by Stormi

[Youngsoldier 282]

PVPers and PVEers alike just wanted our horses not to be auto slaughtered not guards nerfed to oblivion of nothingness with a side order of wat da flocka flame.

[Gavin 971]

when a guard tower takes massive investments of time and resources to construct.

 

Eh; don't know if I can agree with this. I've thrown up 5+ guard towers in a weekend before but attempting to make a knarr in one weekend with multiple characters all 50+ ship building really did my head in and it ended up taking me a few extra days. Comparatively now we have boats; wagons etc towers are extremely easy to throw up especially now that we have the crafting window. Sure; it does take 1,100 items but it's basically 100% chance to attach and for the clay you can WoA it.

 

Once the tower is up it's basically never going anywhere either since it decays very slowly and takes longer to bash than it does to build.

[elf 156]

Tower guards saved my life many times.  Now, I know they will turn up LONG after I ran away, if ever.  Please give them their speed back.   The poor guards must be frustrated too, running as if they have ten dirts in their backpacks. 

[Youngsoldier 282]

Its silly.

[Youngsoldier 282]

And the guards can barely even move... lol