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Gianna

Poll: What keeps you from playing on Epic?

What keeps you from playing on Epic?  

231 members have voted

  1. 1. What keeps you from playing on Epic?

    • I do not like player-versus-player combat in general.
      32
    • I do not like the full-loot aspect and the ability for others to destroy my works.
      51
    • I do not like the community.
      27
    • I think the skill gain increase is too high.
      7
    • I simply don't like the maps and Epic scenario events.
      10
    • I already have too much invested in Freedom.
      42
    • Other (Please comment with reason)
      15
    • I do play on Epic, but I still like answering polls.
      47


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I play Wurm for the creative building aspects that enable something lasting to be built over time. Each day I can walk through the environment that I have shaped and admire the outcome. To put myself into the situation where any random individual or group can come along and destroy my creations would make all the time, effort and thought put into them worthless.


 


I once viewed a video of Sparta (or some Village?) being destroyed upon Chaos recently. It saddened me to see all this work slowly being destroyed. I got nothing but a depressed feeling from watching it. There is no way I would play a game like this if I were put into this type of pvp position.


 


"We all want to change the world. But when you talk about destruction. Don't you know that you can count me out!" ~The Beatles~


 


=Ayes=


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I don't like the combat mechanics, Else i'd be playing there.


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Other. In Wurm, I'm not very much interested in PvP. In Wurm, PvE appeals much more to me, to a degree where I never seriously thought about partaking in Wild/Chaos or Epic yet.

But that doesn't mean I don't like PvP in general. Just not in Wurm.

Edited by Ulviirala

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Tried epic and wasn't really pleased with the community (everybody thinks that you are an enemy and once you join a deed you are treated as slave for the first weeks, well might not be like this in every village but here it was ...) and after getting killed and robbed multiple times as noob by the same people (had no armory and just a few tools since i was grinding skills) I decided that I enjoy the life on Freedom much more ... (on a side-note I have to say that PVP and fighting is a bit boring in Wurm ...) 

 

It mostly really is not like this, it's really sad that some people/villages do this (for any pvp server that is) because a few bad apples will give a really bad reputation for everyone, as this is what gets told to others about the servers/community

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most of the stuff you hear about pvp servers is utterly and completely made up, and it's damn frustrating hearing it as someone who lives on epic. probably 85% of the people didn't take the time to join with the elevation or chaos groups that control the area and went around lone wolfing, and then decided it was boring. 


 


pvp isn't for the 1 or 2 people to live off by themselves, it's about self-sustaining communities and groups and it's one of the most fun experiences you'll ever get in any game if you just take the time to go about it smartly


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most of the stuff you hear about pvp servers is utterly and completely made up, and it's damn frustrating hearing it as someone who lives on epic. probably 85% of the people didn't take the time to join with the elevation or chaos groups that control the area and went around lone wolfing, and then decided it was boring. 

 

pvp isn't for the 1 or 2 people to live off by themselves, it's about self-sustaining communities and groups and it's one of the most fun experiences you'll ever get in any game if you just take the time to go about it smartly

 

Well, some of them, as gary pointed out, end up joining up with a group of idiots who work people like slaves rather than applying to a larger alliance and they are forced into that situation there.

 

 

 

I play Wurm for the creative building aspects that enable something lasting to be built over time. Each day I can walk through the environment that I have shaped and admire the outcome. To put myself into the situation where any random individual or group can come along and destroy my creations would make all the time, effort and thought put into them worthless.

 

I once viewed a video of Sparta (or some Village?) being destroyed upon Chaos recently. It saddened me to see all this work slowly being destroyed. I got nothing but a depressed feeling from watching it. There is no way I would play a game like this if I were put into this type of pvp position.

 

"We all want to change the world. But when you talk about destruction. Don't you know that you can count me out!" ~The Beatles~

 

=Ayes=

 

Its typically not like that. MR was the first kingdom to do that and it was utterly disgusting to watch, no matter how they attempted to justify it, made me lose respect for nearly everyone involved actually. But that is a difference between Chaos and Epic.

 

Chaos is more siege warfare and in most cases a little more damage might be done, whereas on Epic, if a deed is raided, raiders typically knock down the absolute minimum amount of walls and rely on lockpicking as people don't really want to run anyone off.

Edited by Propheteer
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See that's sort of what I was trying to get at, ONE experience or situation and a lot of people think 'well that's how it always it'


 


A lot of the time people will just use it for a reason to not go to or not try a pvp server, instead of just saying 'oh i don't want to', and it spreads to people that start to believe it's the truth


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I play Wurm for the creative building aspects that enable something lasting to be built over time. Each day I can walk through the environment that I have shaped and admire the outcome. To put myself into the situation where any random individual or group can come along and destroy my creations would make all the time, effort and thought put into them worthless.

 

I once viewed a video of Sparta (or some Village?) being destroyed upon Chaos recently. It saddened me to see all this work slowly being destroyed. I got nothing but a depressed feeling from watching it. There is no way I would play a game like this if I were put into this type of pvp position.

 

"We all want to change the world. But when you talk about destruction. Don't you know that you can count me out!" ~The Beatles~

 

=Ayes=

 

Don't you know it's going to be? Alright.

 

Alright?

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1) Combat mechanics in wurm suck monkey balls.

 

 

This is all I have to say about it.

 

Epics 2X skill gain is perfect.   If only the rest of Wurm was like this it might be worth the premium cost.  But right now it is cheaper to wait till someone decides to sell off a toon and buy the one you want then do it yourself.

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as long as you can drain tokens i will never set foot on a pvp server :wacko:


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Its typically not like that. MR was the first kingdom to do that and it was utterly disgusting to watch, no matter how they attempted to justify it, made me lose respect for nearly everyone involved actually.

 

^ This (On full settlement destruction)

 

As far as token draining is concerned, you don't need to be the king of your own settlement or PMK, in fact, it is generally a bad idea if you are not prepared to pay to keep it going. I think a lot of players on PvE servers want to be kings without any of the "responsibility" that PvP brings to the table. I would much rather be a follower in PvP, there is just to much that goes into leading the rabble that are Wurmians that my little brain would pop. I don't think a lot of PvE players get this, and probably would not want to have their own settlement if forced into PvP. 

 

Every group has toxic players. There are just as many on Freedom (to ratio, there are actually way more actual toxic people there) than on Chaos, and Epic. Making assumptions about people you have never met or talked to in any setting is kinda silly imo. 

Edited by GorgonKain

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Every group has toxic players. There are just as many on Freedom (to ratio, there are actually way more actual toxic people there) than on Chaos, and Epic. Making assumptions about people you have never met or talked to in any setting is kinda silly imo. 

 

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/85963-skirmishesrandom-kills-pvp-only-part-three/page-442

 

^ Is honestly what keeps me away from epic.  though I'm much to invested now in freedom anyway, when I first started I really wanted to play epic.... until I read a few of there forum topics.

 

Not to mention a lot of them just love to down the "freedumbers". if you want more people, act a bit more mature, and show a bit of respect to "could be members" of epic, and you'll see more people start to join.  ;)

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-I dont like the idea of having to make new priests, making new main is ok.

-I dont like the way it seems like such a joke, reading your epic threads it seems like everyone who plays on epic finds it stupid (or is stupid) which dosent encourage me.

-basically though I dont like the fact that if I play there ive got nothing. Regardless of what ive done on freedom, if I go to epic I have nothing.

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It seems cheap. Where is the real risk when you can easily make 90ql everything?


 


No risk, no real reward.


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It seems cheap. Where is the real risk when you can easily make 90ql everything?

 

No risk, no real reward.

 

tbh I could just say the same about Chaos, what's so special about just buying that 90ql everything drake/scale/tools/weapons/etc anyway, or having farwalkers to escape risk?  Does it even really matter when everyone that pvps is just using someone else's loot?  It's already premade, I can't remember the last time I actually was required to make something from scratch with no option to just take it from the loot house

 

The real risk is still dying, not what items on you are dropping.  If you're worried about dying purely because of the items you have, something is wrong imo

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Alright, I have to chime in.


 


As someone who has played this game longer than 95% of the current player base, survived wurmageddon, have the ageless and keeper of faith titles on freedom, trolled every kingdom endlessly, was there when DM tanked the first huge spider on wild and it took 9 other people to kill it, and used to speak to Rolf on a regular basis; I'd like to think what I'm about to say has some foothold here.


 


First off, great thread. It's good to see what this newer wave of players has to say about the changes and evolutions to the game. However, I don't think some people realize just how ridiculous this game used to be. (And how some aspects of it still are on Freedom.)


 


1. "I don't like Epic because of it's 2x or 3x or whatever experience increase." - This is easy for someone to say that has 18 hours a day to dump into the game. Wurm's original experience rates are absolutely absurd. It was impossible for a casual player to achieve anything substantial in a years time. The only accounts that would ever have significance were the ones that were shared, or had an owner with a laid back job that could play at work, and again back home with a family that was into the same hobby. Epic's experience and "effective" rates increase is one of the best things to happen to the game. Now you don't have to give up your life, lose your girlfriend or boyfriend and job just to achieve something barely end game. Even with pouring hours into epic myself, I'm just now - after all this time, starting to have a character that people are running from in PVP, and asking favors of within my kingdom. There is nothing wrong with the experience increase. It has been needed for years, imho.


 


2. "I don't like Epic because of the full loot dropping when you die." Please. This is as simple as don't put yourself in a stupid situation that would warrant you to lose everything you have on your toon. You take basic crap with you to PVP and that's it. Your armor, weapon, shield, cotton, ropes and junk crafting tools for whatever you might need on the battlefield. There isn't any kingdom in Wurm's existence that can't replace the basic things I just listed above. Even my failed PMK never had a shortage of PVP items or people that could make them in a jiffy. And now with how far along Epic and it's toons are at the moment, this excuse holds no water in that respect as it just isn't an issue. If you go to HOTA or to Gary's deed with your 99ql 100 WOA needle you just got from tony green and lost it because you're an idiot, then that's on you.


 


3. "I don't like Epic because of the stupid missions and scenarios." I'm going to rephrase that before I comment. "I don't like Epic because I like to sit on a deed and press the "continue" button on the crafting menu and watch a bar scroll across my screen all day." You've got to be kidding me. Before missions and HOTA, there was nothing to do in this game besides tower bashing. We couldn't conquer towers, we never had treasure hunts and we never had a reason to fight unless forum PVP warranted it, or someone got tagged out in the woods looking for their lost dog Whiskey. JUST. BASH. TOWERS. Deed raids were just that - random ass deed raids. They happened when KellyT or Eddy stopped ripping the bong long enough to actually want to do something interactive with the players. There was absolutely nothing that warranted PVP outside of player made decisions. No reason to meet up in the desert and have it out. No reason to sneak into an enemy kingdom and build something for your pantheon. Absolutely nothing of the sort. So you're going to sit there and tell me you'd rather sit on a completed deed all day, grinding out skills to the maximum and then having no way to apply them in a contesting engagement. I'm just going to sit back and say "wow" if that's truly your stance.


 


4. "I don't want to build a deed on Epic just for it to get raided and lose IRL cash in the process." Then don't build a bad deed. There's more threads than my neanderthal brain can count on this forum with very nice walkthroughs and pictures on how to build a good deed that's very hard to raid. Don't just slap a pile of garbage together then post on the forum about how unraidable it is, just to wake up the next day to find your "deed" in the middle of a smoldering crater. Good deed's don't just "get raided" because they're there. Good deeds undergo sieges and survive to continue benefiting your kingdom in whatever way it was before. If you're not completely incapacitated when it comes to designing a deed, then this should rarely be an issue for you. 


 


In conclusion, I don't expect a lot of people to agree with me, it's 5 am and I haven't slept, but after all these years I really think Epic is one of the best things to happen to the game. Structured PVP, meaningful (at least to me, personally) kingdom influence, reasonable character progression, and excluding a few bad eggs, a decent little community. Get to know us and Epic before you knock us. You might just like what you find.


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I have played on Epic since it first opened, and I solidly stand behind my points I stated earlier.


 


The mechanics added are all positive. It was a solid improvement. My main issue still always comes back to the community you must play with if you wish to PVP in any significant way. There are only 3-4 main PVP groups. If you do not get along with them. Then you are basically just out of luck.


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I don't mind PVP but never enjoyed it in an MMORPG. Closest would be World of Tanks, where you're matched (in theory) against people you're more or less on equal footing with equipment wise, and where if I blow up someone's tank I might annoy them for ten minutes. As opposed to Wurm where... I can't even imagine destroying other people's stuff in this game.

 

I just think this is the wrong kind of game for PVP. There's too much investment of time and effort for there not to be hard feelings.

 

Plus... faster skillgain doesn't interest me. Plus, "scenarios" and "quests" don't interest me. I play wurm for the sandboxiness and would rather development focused on adding new stuff to sandbox with. Plus, even assuming you could make a wurm server where it was all combat and minimal investment, the combat itself in wurm is 2002 era everquest minus all of the spells and abilities. Honestly, not that exciting. The only cool part about combat in wurm is getting mobbed by four trolls cos you went into the wrong cave.

So yes, in summary, my issue isn't with PVP or with Epic as such, more that wurm is a bad candidate for a PVP game. PVE sandbox on the other hand... it's still number one. For now.

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full or even partial looting


destroying my deeded stuff


death penalty skill loss


token draining

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Alright, I have to chime in...

 

Although your arguments are sensible for a pvp player, you're missing that the people responding aren't PvP types. If this game was PvP fully, they would be off playing some other game instead. Your arguments sum up to "Don't be a PvE player on Epic", and that's kinda obvious that PvE mindsets shouldn't play PvP servers.

 

I've played full loot PvP games before for several thousand hours of gametime. I've lead factions in them. And I'm tired of them. Your suggestions are sensible precautions if I wanted to play a PvP game, but they completely ignore the fact that any risk is too much risk for some. I come here to relax, if I want risk there's plenty of other games out there. Frankly I prefer low investment pvp games so my adrenaline thrills don't cost me stress during relaxation times.

Edited by Sevenless

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....

In conclusion, I don't expect a lot of people to agree with me, it's 5 am and I haven't slept, but after all these years I really think Epic is one of the best things to happen to the game. Structured PVP, meaningful (at least to me, personally) kingdom influence, reasonable character progression, and excluding a few bad eggs, a decent little community. Get to know us and Epic before you knock us. You might just like what you find.

Here is a prefect example of why PvE and PvP can't play together. This is basically paragraph after paragraph of a PvP'er preaching to PvE about how they are playing the game wrong.

This little spiel reminded me a lot of Eve and how that game servery restricts what PvE can experience. In that game resources, transporting goods, player stations (pos) and other aspects are tightly linked to the PvP competition. It would likely destory Eve's PvP aspect if players could safely do all that stuff.

 

Likewise I'm confident that if PvE was allowed to opt-in/toggle/remove undesirable aspects from PvP it would also ruin Wurm's PvP. 

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Here is a prefect example of why PvE and PvP can't play together. This is basically paragraph after paragraph of a PvP'er preaching to PvE about how they are playing the game wrong.

This little spiel reminded me a lot of Eve and how that game servery restricts what PvE can experience. In that game resources, transporting goods, player stations (pos) and other aspects are tightly linked to the PvP competition. It would likely destory Eve's PvP aspect if players could safely do all that stuff.

 

Likewise I'm confident that if PvE was allowed to opt-in/toggle/remove undesirable aspects from PvP it would also ruin Wurm's PvP. 

I would agree :) Quite a few PvE'ers get ticked when they see us trying to bring new blood in by offering people a chance :D But I won't flame here, potatoe potatoe, tomato, tomato.

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as long as you can drain tokens i will never set foot on a pvp server :wacko:

Trust me. When your deed is picked clean of valuables and all your livestock is slaughtered those few coppers you lost from the drain will seem like nothing.

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as long as you can drain tokens i will never set foot on a pvp server :wacko:

 

If you are soft in the head and put all your money in your deed then you deserve to have it drained. 

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I would agree :) Quite a few PvE'ers get ticked when they see us trying to bring new blood in by offering people a chance :D But I won't flame here, potatoe potatoe, tomato, tomato.

What are you talking about? Are you trying to use some sneaky verbose inside joke? Step up man, write clearly. You do realize your trying to use the "honesty" approach of defending epic?

For what its worth, I don't have any problems with Epic trying to get more players to try Epic. Multiple paragraphs of Stormi's where in fact telling PvE how they are playing wrong. That is where PvP often fails to respect PvE.

 

I'll try epic when...

no full or even partial looting ever.

no destroying my deeded stuff if I haven't opt-in to a siege.

death penalty skill loss removed

token draining removed while not in siege

killing me gives nothing (battle rank, affinities, FS) if I haven't opt-in to combat.

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