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Gypsy

If you can get into a mine, you can get out again.

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A player should be able to climb out, and the carts should stop just like they do on steep slopes. Just my opinion.


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Darwinism, dumb ones die off, smart ones live. -1

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Darwinism. New people, both the smart and the dumb, fall into them, get frustrated, and never play again. Thus lowering new player retention.


 


Also I think this is a misapplication of Darwin. You may be looking for Herbert Spencer.


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Nietzsche can be a fun read too (not to mention a man with a fabulous mustache).


Edited by Klaa

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I have seen this happen more than once. The sad part about every single time it happened was I said, "If you go around that fence and fall in, you won't get back out." They do it anyway.


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It could have an impact on pvp servers as some players use such mines as traps. Not to mention other passive aggressive defenses.

 

I never take pvp concerns into consideration. All my responses are directed towards the PvE aspects of the game unless otherwise specified. Again this points out why PvE and pvp coding needs to be separated so as that one does not negatively impact the other. Any pvp concerns are for you guys to figure out.

 

=Ayes=

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I never take pvp concerns into consideration. All my responses are directed towards the PvE aspects of the game unless otherwise specified. Again this points out why PvE and pvp coding needs to be separated so as that one does not negatively impact the other. Any pvp concerns are for you guys to figure out.

 

=Ayes=

 

Meh drastically seperate codebases would become development hell (people complain about the current workpace already :rolleyes: ), and even with isolated servers there can be consequences to changes (negative, positive, and even mixed) regardless of them being "pve" or "pvp".

 

When changes are made to a system, the whole system has be considered at some point. One cannot just consider some little component in isolation because it doesn't truly operate in such a state.

 

EDIT: Atm the current GM policy of considering each case based on its situation sounds like the best.

Edited by Klaa

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Ok gms help them get out so i dont see problem.... They ali help players get out of houses.... All things related as trap... They help... Close that now since is confirmed.

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I never take pvp concerns into consideration. All my responses are directed towards the PvE aspects of the game unless otherwise specified. Again this points out why PvE and pvp coding needs to be separated so as that one does not negatively impact the other. Any pvp concerns are for you guys to figure out.

 

=Ayes=

Meh drastically seperate codebases would become development hell (people complain about the current workpace already :rolleyes: ), and even with isolated servers there can be consequences to changes (negative, positive, and even mixed) regardless of them being "pve" or "pvp".

 

EDIT: Atm the current GM policy of considering each case based on its situation sounds like the best.

 

This could turn into a long debate about PvE/pvp code separation, which was not my intent; however, as was shown by our different perspectives on this issue, if a change were made to enable players to climb out of mine entrances blocked it would be a positive solution on PvE servers (which is my sole focus, as well as many others) but have negative impacts on the pvp servers trapping of players options. What happens then is that nothing is done because of this, which when you think about it is a bias in favor of pvp.

 

The ultimate solution then is to separate their coding so that each aspect can have the most beneficial solutions applied to them, just as this trapped in mine situation once again points out. If the GM's will indeed remove players on the PvE servers should they become trapped within mines due to entrances being blocked off, sure this works well enough for me; but, it seems the policy is not black and white to do so, which it should be. Player is trapped in a mine on PvE server and GM removes them from it, No Questions Asked!

 

=Ayes=

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Heh Ive never seen any so-called bias in favor of pvp. In fact many of the recent additions, new maps, and even planned features have been distinctly pve; though, one may find a pvp usage. Course thats one of the fun things about pvp, you are playing against other human minds, not some scripted AI.


 


Personally a far better solution to the OP would be to enable players to climb on cave walls and/or ceilings instead of merely floors, perhaps a Climbing skill unlock: walls at 20?, ceilings at 30?.


 


Thus if someone wishes to secure their mine entrance without a door, then they have to wall the entire tile in. Therego preventing people from falling in accidentally to begin with, and even in the event of lazy builders or decay, the player has the potential to climb right out. Most cave entrances have pretty short sides, so even low skill would be required.


 


Imho such a solution is simple and works well across all gameplay styles.


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crap this still going?   i saw many times when gm get folks out of caves and out of houses witch was "trap"   so this is truth... we have gms to get you out of cave or house... problem solved....


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Ok gms help them get out so i dont see problem.... They ali help players get out of houses.... All things related as trap... They help... Close that now since is confirmed.

 

 

crap this still going?   i saw many times when gm get folks out of caves and out of houses witch was "trap"   so this is truth... we have gms to get you out of cave or house... problem solved....

Huh?

 

Sometimes they are told to find their own way or /suicide, and sometimes they are helped out. 

 

If you read the whole thread, that's what has been confirmed. And even in a case where a GM will help, certain times of day the wait is massive. 

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You know what would solve a lot of these problems?
- Allowing minedoors on slopes above 90, like it used to be.

  • Like 6

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You know what would solve a lot of these problems?

- Allowing minedoors on slopes above 90, like it used to be.

But then wild would have "undrainable" tokens. We don't want that now, do we?  :rolleyes:   ;)

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Would no longer be able to trap PVP players into a mine... so only if freedom only.


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Maybe I should change the name of the post =) Anything would be fine! Anything that meant that if you can get in, you can get out again!

 

If I read what you wrote right, you proposed to not allow players to build on teh borders of a mine entrance??? If so, I think I agree with it. My idea was just not to allow a player to fall on a side if that side is not climbable. I like your idea, though.

 

Making the borders to a mine entrance non-buildable might not be possible at this stage in the game, though. Just making it non-buildable is not enough since there're already walls built onto the borders of mine entrances. So to be effective this change has to also remove any curently present constructions on the mine entrance border. Imagine how many mine entrances would have to be redone? There might be a very serious riot or protest against doing that. In essence, it couldn't forcefully remove anything presently on mine entrance borders, so it'd be impotent.

 

But of all the ideas I've heard your idea is my favorite, since it's doesn't envoke magical answres like flying out or levitating out. It's somewhat artificial, but hey, there're no perfect answers in this world.

Edited by Lightonfoot

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It could have an impact on pvp servers as some players use such mines as traps. Not to mention other passive aggressive defenses.

 

Ive even considered creating minedoors, set to open to everyone, to dump players thru steep shafts into the deed where guards can deal with them. Never actually got around to trying it out and see if its even feasible. Not to mention players who invest time in their climbing skills.

 

Course offdeed rock doors decay faster now, so for large deeds it may become more time-consuming than its worth to maintain such.

 

 

As a newb many many moons ago, I was stuck in such a mine entrance that was walled off only on the entrance border. Back then it was difficult to build walls on steep slopes. Seems almost everyone new either experiences it themselves or, as is more common nowadays, hears about it.

 

At the time I had thought it would be possible to climb out through the side walls (see how new I was then); however, I soon learned my only options were to mine out, bash out, or suicide. This was long before we ever had a support system setup, so you call for help in chat or on IRC and hope one of the player-GMs were online for that server. At any rate I ended up suiciding as there was no skill to lose and nothing on me of any importance.

 

The practice of the time for GMs was they would not help as they had no idea if you had truly accidentally fallen in, or were a thief looking around. Building such a cave was usually the first kind of storage a player used before finishing a house or planting a deed.

 

Course nowadays the skill restrictions for walls and fences on slopes have been relaxed, so completely walling off an entrance is much easier. Though there's not much stopping someone from bashing or catapulting, if they really want to get in.

Problem with relaxing the slope rules is it makes it easier to trap a person's off-deed house on a pvp server. You just build a fence around hte entrance to their house, blocking it from the outside. Conventionally, the answer is to build the house on a raised very steep piece of land. This makes it harder to trap an entrance.

Edited by Lightonfoot

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There is always saving up 1k karma. Stuff happens. Karma can get you home.


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There's a different skill requirement system in pvp... 


 


so technically it's possible to allow higher slope fencing on pve :3


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I think the biggest issue here is not the mines with just one fence but the ones with fences all around the entrance which you can fall in through the wall. It's a silly bug and really annoying for the "victim" and owner of the mine. I still think people should have to observe common sense so -1

Edited by Webba

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