If you can get into a mine, you can get out again.

[Gypsy 138]

I know, I know. It's a popular way to block access to resources you found off deed. Stick a shack up or a fence gate. The responsible people put a fence around the entire thing so that people can't fall in, but a lot don't. And the fences usually decay before the shack anyways.

 

Vet players see this, and either avoid or prospect around to see if there is anything worth making another entrance for. New players have no idea and fall in, and can't get out again. 

 

On Celebration, when this would happen (and it happened often), locals would make a trip with mauls, shovels, and picks. I've made pretty long trips over the server myself to rescue players. On Xanadu .... Eek. A new player knowing where he/she is at to ask for player help is proving tough enough. And a long trip across the server for the people who would otherwise help?

 

GMs, afaik, won't get them out of this situation, unless maybe it's on a deed and mining out becomes impossible ... not sure on that one. They can suicide out, sure, but leaving all of their stuff and possibly money behind and irretrievable. 

 

Trapping people like this, and telling them to spend the next 5 hours mining (give or take 20 more) sucks. 

 

edit - changed post title from "making cave borders impossible to build on" ... It was just a first thought (when once again, a group of new players fell into a mine) as I think any change that would resolve the situation would be great!

Edited June 30, 2014 by Gypsy

[silakka 2,360]

If they can get in, they can get out - option to climb out somehow would be nice.

Takes too much time from GMs from what ive seen in the past years.

They do advice new players to make a new entrance or /suicide, but sometimes those are the 2 worst options.

 

A tiny gap perhaps between house + cave entrance, so players can slide out on border could fix most of these cases.

[Blink 13]

Maybe an option to climb the cave walls at the entrance. Not sure if this would be able to be coded or not though, given how cave entrances are portals to another dimension

[Kegan 3,926]

It is a lesson that only needs to be learned once and think it is fine once they get trapped then they will never do it again. If anything i think an invisible barrier that would not allow them in the top or sides would be better.

 

Anyway -1 from me. 

Edited June 30, 2014 by Kegan

[Gypsy 138]

Maybe I should change the name of the post =) Anything would be fine! Anything that meant that if you can get in, you can get out again!

[Shrimpiie 3,665]

I'm very against removing the ability to place fences around a mine entrance. I don't want to be restricted on what I do simply due to user error in falling in the first place somewhere else in Wurm. What I would propose as a counter suggestion is tweak the edge slightly so that people are able to get out between the opening and a house if there is no fence along that border junction.

[Wraithglow 787]

I think this has become much less of an issue since we can't skydive with basically zero damage any more - generally when I saw this kind of thing it was people falling off the tops of cliffs not even knowing the mine was at the bottom.

 

I do agree that it'd be nice to be able to climb out over the sides / back if possible.

[Benzo 9]

I agree there should be no way to make a one-way path. If you can get in you should be able to get out.

One-way travel gives the ability to make traps, and not much else.

[Aetherwalker 1,863]

Maybe make /stuck, when used in a mine entrance, hop you outside the cave?

[Gypsy 138]

Maybe make /stuck, when used in a mine entrance, hop you outside the cave?

Oooo or use your last gasp to climb a mine wall? Well maybe something else with a different name, but similar with the cool down. "You grab the side of the rock and haul yourself from the hole." 

[Aetherwalker 1,863]

Oooo or use your last gasp to climb a mine wall? Well maybe something else with a different name, but similar with the cool down. "You grab the side of the rock and haul yourself from the hole." 

Just thinking mechanically, it doesn't seem difficult to make the game let you walk on top of the mine entrance hole for a bit. Just pretending there's a mine door there.

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

I like the ideas Aetherwalker and Gypsy are coming up with, sounds better to implement so we don't have to set limitations for others.  And with the long wait for a GM or /suicide being the only other options, we do need something more, at least on the PVE servers.  PVP may want to keep the current conditions.

[KanePT 699]

I know, I know. It's a popular way to block access to resources you found off deed. Stick a shack up or a fence gate. The responsible people put a fence around the entire thing so that people can't fall in, but a lot don't. And the fences usually decay before the shack anyways.

 

Vet players see this, and either avoid or prospect around to see if there is anything worth making another entrance for. New players have no idea and fall in, and can't get out again. 

 

On Celebration, when this would happen (and it happened often), locals would make a trip with mauls, shovels, and picks. I've made pretty long trips over the server myself to rescue players. On Xanadu .... Eek. A new player knowing where he/she is at to ask for player help is proving tough enough. And a long trip across the server for the people who would otherwise help?

 

GMs, afaik, won't get them out of this situation, unless maybe it's on a deed and mining out becomes impossible ... not sure on that one. They can suicide out, sure, but leaving all of their stuff and possibly money behind and irretrievable. 

 

Trapping people like this, and telling them to spend the next 5 hours mining (give or take 20 more) sucks. 

 

edit - changed post title from "making cave borders impossible to build on" ... It was just a first thought (when once again, a group of new players fell into a mine) as I think any change that would resolve the situation would be great!

Actually, from my experience, GMs WILL take you out, since trapping people inside stuff is against the rules. Weird that a CA would say otherwise.

[silakka 2,360]

Actually, from my experience, GMs WILL take you out, since trapping people inside stuff is against the rules. Weird that a CA would say otherwise.

 

Nope, not in every case.

GMs help with bugs, if a person jumped there for fun, they won't always help, since the person has 2 other choices to choose from too - mine out or /suicide.

[Elen 1,013]

-1

[Forgedrake 130]

+1 for some way to fix this - a friend of mine got stuck in a shallow mine he didn't see (was like 2 inches deep) and had to spend 4 hours with a hammer smashing a wall

[GorgonKain 355]

It is a particularly sticky wicket. Player trapping on PvE servers IS griefing, but this happened to me, some very nice player    mine doored over my head and GMs said they would not do anything about it. I was told however, if I went to an off deed section of the mine to get out, I would be griefing. 

 

+1, make some better way to get out of these traps, but only on PvE servers. 

Edited June 30, 2014 by GorgonKain

[Huserx 189]

-1 original idea +1 for gypsy & aethers alternatives

[military 4]

think of it this way as it'll effect epic and freedom, ... EPIC NEEDS gates at mines while freedom doesn't really much at all but needs a little bit, ...

 

also learning is by doing stuff wrong and learning the coonsequences, ...

 

it's his fault he fell inside, ...

 

 

BESIDES if it has a mine door on it he can't fell inside, ...

 

so it's his fault he WANTED to fall inside.

as he saw cave and he wanted to get inside.

 

it's his fault again.

 

the only time it's not his fault is WHEN he loged out inside a cave for a year or 2 and than someone came and blocked him inside.

BUT even than it's partially his fault as he loged out inside a cave and he should know better not to log out from cave for more than few months.

 

 

I can't find 1 reason that it's fault of a maker of the mine really.

 

if you ask me people do it because they want some attention, ...

 

besides there's teleport to village command and he can use it 1 time in his life, ...

I think it should also be made to teleport to starting town if he's not inside deed but that's all, ...

[blizzerd 53]

think of it this way as it'll effect epic and freedom, ... EPIC NEEDS gates at mines while freedom doesn't really much at all but needs a little bit, ...

 

also learning is by doing stuff wrong and learning the coonsequences, ...

 

it's his fault he fell inside, ...

 

 

BESIDES if it has a mine door on it he can't fell inside, ...

 

so it's his fault he WANTED to fall inside.

as he saw cave and he wanted to get inside.

 

it's his fault again.

 

the only time it's not his fault is WHEN he loged out inside a cave for a year or 2 and than someone came and blocked him inside.

BUT even than it's partially his fault as he loged out inside a cave and he should know better not to log out from cave for more than few months.

 

 

I can't find 1 reason that it's fault of a maker of the mine really.

 

if you ask me people do it because they want some attention, ...

 

besides there's teleport to village command and he can use it 1 time in his life, ...

I think it should also be made to teleport to starting town if he's not inside deed but that's all, ...

[BrQQQ 2,854]

Actually, from my experience, GMs WILL take you out, since trapping people inside stuff is against the rules. Weird that a CA would say otherwise.

[Depends 220]

I build 90ql walls around my mine entrances and trolls take them down within a week.

If the people really think trolls bashing walls adds to the game experience then maybe we need some mine fencing that they avoid bashing. It would probably cut down on the number of people who fall into mines.

[Gypsy 138]

think of it this way as it'll effect epic and freedom, ... EPIC NEEDS gates at mines while freedom doesn't really much at all but needs a little bit, ...

 

also learning is by doing stuff wrong and learning the coonsequences, ...

 

it's his fault he fell inside, ...

 

 

BESIDES if it has a mine door on it he can't fell inside, ...

 

so it's his fault he WANTED to fall inside.

as he saw cave and he wanted to get inside.

 

it's his fault again.

 

the only time it's not his fault is WHEN he loged out inside a cave for a year or 2 and than someone came and blocked him inside.

BUT even than it's partially his fault as he loged out inside a cave and he should know better not to log out from cave for more than few months.

 

 

I can't find 1 reason that it's fault of a maker of the mine really.

 

if you ask me people do it because they want some attention, ...

 

besides there's teleport to village command and he can use it 1 time in his life, ...

I think it should also be made to teleport to starting town if he's not inside deed but that's all, ...

I don't understand the PvP implications of this, admittedly. 

 

Also I don't think I agree with "your fault"  thing because of the wide range of situations people fall into these in PvE. 

 

However ... if you get up and stumble around in the middle of the night, and stub your toe, it is your fault.  Personally, if I could write a bit of code that could save all of those toes from being stubbed, I would do it. 

 

Fault or not, I think this is a trap and there should be a way to get out if you can get in.

 

edit - a t

Edited July 1, 2014 by Gypsy

[Ayes 3,715]

I agree with the post title. On mine entrances without walls on the sides or top you should just be able to climb out of them in some manner that is coded by the game mechanics. Until this is implemented it should be game policy that if anyone goes into a mine entrance where the entrance is blocked off without side and top walls, that the GM's will come to remove them from the mine when called upon through /support.

 

Basically either enable a way for players to get out on their own or assist them in doing so.

 

=Ayes=

[Klaa 4,872]

It could have an impact on pvp servers as some players use such mines as traps. Not to mention other passive aggressive defenses.

 

Ive even considered creating minedoors, set to open to everyone, to dump players thru steep shafts into the deed where guards can deal with them. Never actually got around to trying it out and see if its even feasible. Not to mention players who invest time in their climbing skills.

 

Course offdeed rock doors decay faster now, so for large deeds it may become more time-consuming than its worth to maintain such.

 

 

As a newb many many moons ago, I was stuck in such a mine entrance that was walled off only on the entrance border. Back then it was difficult to build walls on steep slopes. Seems almost everyone new either experiences it themselves or, as is more common nowadays, hears about it.

 

At the time I had thought it would be possible to climb out through the side walls (see how new I was then); however, I soon learned my only options were to mine out, bash out, or suicide. This was long before we ever had a support system setup, so you call for help in chat or on IRC and hope one of the player-GMs were online for that server. At any rate I ended up suiciding as there was no skill to lose and nothing on me of any importance.

 

The practice of the time for GMs was they would not help as they had no idea if you had truly accidentally fallen in, or were a thief looking around. Building such a cave was usually the first kind of storage a player used before finishing a house or planting a deed.

 

Course nowadays the skill restrictions for walls and fences on slopes have been relaxed, so completely walling off an entrance is much easier. Though there's not much stopping someone from bashing or catapulting, if they really want to get in.