Why play a game you don't enjoy?

[Pwent 113]

This question came to me while reading Steam users review Football Manager 2014.

Someone who has played Football Manager 2014 for 1450 hours, 148 hours of those in the past 2 weeks wrote this:

"Games are supposed to be fun and if they aren't then whats the point in playing them?"

His review was very negative and basically said FM 2014 is a pile of crap and not worth the money.
1450 hours....

Maybe someone can answer the question then, if he thinks the game is not fun then why does he keep playing it 10 hours a day?
Why do you play a game that you hate?

Discuss.

Edited June 26, 2014 by Pwent

[rixk 830]

That's how it is, people burn themselves out and then, instead of making a break, they will blame the game.

[silakka 2,360]

something in that game 'forces' you to just come back and check if everything is okay and continue the same routine you are used to.

*cough* upkeep *cough*

[Dairuka 888]

This question came to me while reading Steam users review Football Manager 2014.

Someone who has played Football Manager 2014 for 1450 hours, 148 hours of those in the past 2 weeks wrote this:

"Games are supposed to be fun and if they aren't then whats the point in playing them?"

His review was very negative and basically said FM 2014 is a pile of crap and not worth the money.

1450 hours....

Maybe someone can answer the question then, if he thinks the game is not fun then why does he keep playing it 10 hours a day?

Why do you play a game that you hate?

Discuss.

 

The three big reasons to play a video game extensively, only to critically review it:

• Credibility (Nobody will listen to your review if you haven't played it extensively. The most common complaint among game reviewers, is that they don't put 50+ hours into a game before reviewing it.)
• Addiction (You can despise a game, but still play it - if you have an inherent need to log in for the sole purpose of satisfying an addiction.)
• Enjoyment (You can genuinely enjoy it, but hate certain aspects of it. If those aspects eventually start to outweigh the enjoyment, it's perfectly credible to criticize the game as 'bad', despite having enjoyed it.)

Your complaint about someone having extensively played a game, only to criticize it is contrary to the masses of people who rant about critics who don't play a game enough before critiquing.

 

Perhaps it would be wisest for the internet masses to come up with a code of conduct for reviewers so they know precisely how many hours they have to play a game before it's okay to call a bad game bad?

 

I enjoyed Avatar: The Last Airbender for the Wii immensely. However, it was still a broken - awful game. Just because I found enjoyment in an awful game, doesn't make it less awful. It means I enjoy certain awful games.

 

The same can be said for fans of awful movies. Ed Wood fans should know this sentiment well.

Edited June 26, 2014 by Dairuka

[Matho 6]

Feeling of success is usually that something what brings people back to their favorite game. Of course the game is not simple and it can be even be frustrating but there is a good balance between positive and negative feedback. Positive feed back is feeling of success and negative are those obstacles in achieving the success. That's why building and grinding games are popular. But this of course is just another explanation and there will not be single truth. Only opinions exist. 

[silakka 2,360]

Dopamine

[Dairuka 888]

Dopamine

 

I understand your posts now.

[Jeixi 146]

I imagine for him it was like Wurm was for me. Fun at first, then it started to get boring, then something probably pissed him off at the game. 

 

1450 hours is a lot to put into a game though...  

[Dairuka 888]

I imagine for him it was like Wurm was for me. Fun at first, then it started to get boring, then something probably pissed him off at the game. 

 

1450 hours is a lot to put into a game though...  

 

Pfft. About 1/20th of what I put into Civ 4.

[Jeixi 146]

I'd just like to add that when it comes to criticizing games, you really can't win. Had he only played like 40+ hours, people wouldn't take his review seriously because he didn't play enough. Because he played so much though, the typical response from people like the OP is, "Well it had to be fun if you played it so much!" I've seen both of these arguments made against critics of multiple games. 

 

What I don't understand is the whole fanboy mentality. So what if someone bashes your favorite game? If you don't have any proven FACTS to argue with them, you really just make yourself look like a shill by trying. "Oh but this game is fun and awesome and content and blah blah blah!" v.s. "This game has x problems, and y issues, and z bugs." will always make the fanboy look like a shill to anyone reading. No one reading reviews online gives a damn about your opinion.

 

I get called a troll and banned from forums all the time for criticizing games, even though I try to mostly state facts about the game, and provide evidence through videos or screenshots. People call me a hater, and act like just because I dislike some game it invalidates everything I just said. It doesn't matter how many game breaking flaws/glitches I can point out, because the fanboys aren't going to even try to refute those arguments. They just call you a hater/troll, and hit that report button, and the mods are usually glad to ban the objective rational critic instead of all the pretentious douchebags who are flaming him.

Edited June 26, 2014 by Jeixi

[boombza 515]

I think the quote itself is flawed in some aspects, "Games are suppose to be fun..."

The quote almost screams for instant gratification, though I don't believe that's how all games work.
In my opinion, fun is forged through hard work within a game, having fun comes apart of archiving something. 

I can use Minecraft as a great example of people having fun;
My friend made a server a few years back, it grew to become quite popular and new people were constantly coming by and becoming regulars.
It was a survival server on hardcore, people had trouble with it, they died, they lost things and obviously, they complained. Though because it was part of the game, people learnt to accept it and finally achieving their goal became so much more valuable because of how difficult it was.

Though what started to happen was, some people started to get "special privileges", Some people were allowed Creative Mode and have the ability to attain whatever they wanted and effectively skip the struggling phase as a new player and got instant gratification. They claimed that they were having more fun, though they got bored, very quickly. 

What this says is, some people dont know how to have fun, and game developers know this. So what they do is, they create games that causes you to struggle and complain about, games that teach people how to truly have fun. And I think, this guy is simply enjoying the game without knowing it.. 

[Dairuka 888]

I think the quote itself is flawed in some aspects, "Games are suppose to be fun..."

The quote almost screams for instant gratification, though I don't believe that's how all games work.

In my opinion, fun is forged through hard work within a game, having fun comes apart of archiving something. 

I can use Minecraft as a great example of people having fun;

My friend made a server a few years back, it grew to become quite popular and new people were constantly coming by and becoming regulars.

It was a survival server on hardcore, people had trouble with it, they died, they lost things and obviously, they complained. Though because it was part of the game, people learnt to accept it and finally achieving their goal became so much more valuable because of how difficult it was.

Though what started to happen was, some people started to get "special privileges", Some people were allowed Creative Mode and have the ability to attain whatever they wanted and effectively skip the struggling phase as a new player and got instant gratification. They claimed that they were having more fun, though they got bored, very quickly. 

What this says is, some people dont know how to have fun, and game developers know this. So what they do is, they create games that causes you to struggle and complain about, games that teach people how to truly have fun. And I think, this guy is simply enjoying the game without knowing it.. 

 

To be fair, the entire Football Manager series wasn't designed to be 'fun', or 'fun' in the same sense as Dwarf Fortress or Dark Souls.

 

It was designed predominantly to be as addictive as possible.

[eyerobot 202]

Usually people hang onto a game that they like, Even though it is riddled with programming errors, And huge designer flaws. In hopes that one day someone will correct these problems, Even if it has to be another company that purchases the game. And then something happens that pushes them over the edge, And they can no longer tolerate the game. 

Wether this guy played ten hours or ten thousand makes no difference.  Anyone can be pushed too far at any time under the right circumstances, And will take their money to another company that seems to appreciate them more. Wether it's true or not.

[boombza 515]

To be fair, the entire Football Manager series wasn't designed to be 'fun', or 'fun' in the same sense as Dwarf Fortress or Dark Souls.

 

It was designed predominantly to be as addictive as possible.

Then you could compare it to Facebook games...   

Though Dwarf Fortress and Dark Souls, is the exact type games that communicate fun through their level of difficulty. So I'm glad you understood what I meant!

Edited June 26, 2014 by boombza

[Dairuka 888]

Usually people hang onto a game that they like, Even though it is riddled with programming errors, And huge designer flaws. In hopes that one day someone will correct these problems, Even if it has to be another company that purchases the game. And then something happens that pushes them over the edge, And they can no longer tolerate the game. 

Wether this guy played ten hours or ten thousand makes no difference.  Anyone can be pushed too far at any time under the right circumstances, And will take their money to another company that seems to appreciate them more. Wether it's true or not.

 

If I see someone with 1000+ hours, raging about the game they pulled in that many hours on. I don't think "burn out", I think "addict who has hit rock bottom".

 

I often take it as a warning sign for single player games with multiplayer - and I definitely consider it a sign of the plague if there are micro-transactions involved.

 

 

Then you could compare it to Facebook games...   

Though Dwarf Fortress and Dark Souls, is the exact type games that communicate fun through their level of difficulty. So I'm glad you understood what I meant!

 

I actually edited down my post. My original statement was going to be, "Football Manager took the best aspects of Manager games, Zynga and King.com - and molded it into a finely tuned digital chemical substance meant to drain away your life, your happiness, and your soul."

 

I felt it was too mean.

 

 

I'd just like to add that when it comes to criticizing games, you really can't win. Had he only played like 40+ hours, people wouldn't take his review seriously because he didn't play enough. Because he played so much though, the typical response from people like the OP is, "Well it had to be fun if you played it so much!" I've seen both of these arguments made against critics of multiple games. 

 

What I don't understand is the whole fanboy mentality. So what if someone bashes your favorite game? If you don't have any proven FACTS to argue with them, you really just make yourself look like a shill by trying. "Oh but this game is fun and awesome and content and blah blah blah!" v.s. "This game has x problems, and y issues, and z bugs." will always make the fanboy look like a shill to anyone reading. No one reading reviews online gives a damn about your opinion.

 

I get called a troll and banned from forums all the time for criticizing games, even though I try to mostly state facts about the game, and provide evidence through videos or screenshots. People call me a hater, and act like just because I dislike some game it invalidates everything I just said. It doesn't matter how many game breaking flaws/glitches I can point out, because the fanboys aren't going to even try to refute those arguments. They just call you a hater/troll, and hit that report button, and the mods are usually glad to ban the objective rational critic instead of all the pretentious douchebags who are flaming him.

 

Try scathing sarcasm. It's perhaps the most powerful tool for the adventurous critic who ventures too far deep into enemy territory.

 

I've been able to get away with routinely criticizing the worst aspects of Wurm in the public forums, without so much as a scratch, predominantly because I hit people with factual information first, opinion second, then sarcasm third. Opening with information first builds credibility to your argument. Following with your opinion allows you to express your views. Finishing up with sarcasm gives you a way out. It's a powerful combination that you can follow up with additional sarcastic responses and quotes to soften the blows when the vultures inevitably swoop down for an attempt to peck at your eyes for daring to critique their favorite addiction.

 

The trick is to go in not expecting to sway people's minds, but to express an unpopular view point. If you can get a discussion going about it where other people argue about the merits of your point, you've won. If you don't get a discussion going, your point is still ventilated, and you feel better. Thus, you still win.

 

Do it enough times and sometimes people start clamoring for the exact same changes you've expressed a desire for. Other people will take credit, but that just means they're also the targets for blowback.

 

Work from the shadows my friend. Sarcasm is your weapon.

Edited June 26, 2014 by Dairuka

[Jeixi 146]

Usually people hang onto a game that they like, Even though it is riddled with programming errors, And huge designer flaws. In hopes that one day someone will correct these problems, Even if it has to be another company that purchases the game. And then something happens that pushes them over the edge, And they can no longer tolerate the game. 

Wether this guy played ten hours or ten thousand makes no difference.  Anyone can be pushed too far at any time under the right circumstances, And will take their money to another company that seems to appreciate them more. Wether it's true or not.

 

Yep. I loved Wurm not too long ago, but the whole animal AI thing made me unable to tolerate it any longer. Why pay to play a game where I literally sit there bored in my house, wishing the skills I had dedicated the past 6-7 months to weren't now useless, staring at an ugly lawn full of packed dirt? Why should I have to completely change my play style because of some whim of a developer?

 

Heck, I got pissed not too long ago because the Minecraft server I was playing on deleted on all the creative plots. I had built several plots, and was gaining popularity on the server as a good builder. Now I have no motivation whatsoever to play on that server. Most players on the server got over it quickly, but then most of them didn't put so much work into their plot either. It's easy to rebuild a skin competition or dinky little wood cabin, not so easy to rebuild something like this:

 

 

I really enjoyed building that Hyrule castle for my friend. But do you think I would enjoy doing it a second time? Hell no. And if I stick around, everyone I know is going to want me to rebuild their plot. So yeah, I'm finding another server to play on. So anyway, point is, no matter how much you love a game, like Eyes said, something can happen and put a really bad taste in your mouth. 

Edited June 26, 2014 by Jeixi

[Dairuka 888]

Yep. I loved Wurm not too long ago, but the whole animal AI thing made me unable to tolerate it any longer. Why pay to play a game where I literally sit there bored in my house, wishing the skills I had dedicated the past 6-7 months to weren't now useless, staring at an ugly lawn full of packed dirt? Why should I have to completely change my play style because of some whim of a developer?

 

Heck, I got pissed not too long ago because the Minecraft server I was playing on deleted on all the creative plots. I had built several plots, and was gaining popularity on the server as a good builder. Now I have no motivation whatsoever to play on that server. Most players on the server got over it quickly, but then most of them didn't put so much work into their plot either. It's easy to rebuild a skin competition or dinky little wood cabin, not so easy to rebuild something like this:

 

 

I really enjoyed building that Hyrule castle for my friend. But do you think I would enjoy doing it a second time? Hell no. And if I stick around, everyone I know is going to want me to rebuild their plot. So yeah, I'm finding another server to play on. So anyway, point is, no matter how much you love a gain, like Eyes said, something can happen and put a really bad taste in your mouth. 

 

I still have a backup of my old survival world on a flash drive.

 

http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/934749-moraterra-reborn-single-player-survivor/

Edited June 26, 2014 by Dairuka

[Jeixi 146]

I still have a backup of my old survival world on a flash drive.

 

http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/934749-moraterra-reborn-single-player-survivor/

 

Seems like you put a ton of work into that server. You did all that on Survival mode?

[Dairuka 888]

Seems like you put a ton of work into that server. You did all that on Survival mode?

 

Yes. Solo as well. It was never made multi-player.

[Jeixi 146]

Yes. Solo as well. It was never made multi-player.

 

Yeah I wouldn't put that much effort into something that could just get griefed either. My current dilemma is that I want to play multiplayer Minecraft, but don't want to play on someone else's server where the stuff I build is gonna either get griefed or deleted due to some glitch. 

[Dairuka 888]

Yeah I wouldn't put that much effort into something that could just get griefed either. My current dilemma is that I want to play multiplayer Minecraft, but don't want to play on someone else's server where the stuff I build is gonna either get griefed or deleted due to some glitch. 

 

Creating is addicting.

 

If there is a God, I envy his job.

[Jeixi 146]

Creating is addicting.

 

If there is a God, I envy his job.

 

Yeah, this is why I love when my siblings have a birthday so I can buy them Lego blocks. I really do it more for myself than them. Love building those big expensive sets. XD

[Pwent 113]

Sure, people reviewing a game after 1 hours played is ridiculous, but we are talking about 1450+ hours, including 10 hours every day in the past 2 weeks. We are talking about a game that came out 8 months ago.

I am not a fanboy of FM either, although I just bought it after a hiatus of 3 years. Quitting Wurm gives me a lot of time on my hands.

[Jeixi 146]

Sure, people reviewing a game after 1 hours played is ridiculous, but we are talking about 1450+ hours, including 10 hours every day in the past 2 weeks. We are talking about a game that came out 8 months ago.

I am not a fanboy of FM either, although I just bought it after a hiatus of 3 years. Quitting Wurm gives me a lot of time on my hands.

 

Yeah, I got a lot more time now too since I also quit Wurm. I agree that's a crazy amount of time to put into a game, even if you are having fun, that's a bit excessive. That's a big problem I had with Wurm, it basically demanded that I be there ten hours a day if I wanted to get anywhere in terms of skill, and not lose all my livestock to a troll attack. All that time could have been spent with friends or family, or maybe exercising, which I should probably do more often since I'm getting fat. I don't know anything about FM, I don't even really like football, but I'm guessing something happened in the game that really soured his experience, similar to what happened with Wurm and myself.

[Blazer 566]

I'm addicted to arrows. I can't stop... Please help me.