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Life as a priest, it's a risk you take.

Thing is, it just means I run 2 clients instead of one and bring nothing extra to the game (since the alt is ALWAYS a free alt) but a bit more lag.

What I propose is priests are able to perform some extra activities but their skill is effectively capped at 20 (same as their free alt).  This includes, but is not limited to, woodcutting (no cap for vyn), mining (no cap for mag), digging (no cap for fo), packing, paving, construction (nothing requiring a skill over 20), improving items (all imp checks use a capped skill level of 20).  Why?  Simply because everyone gets around the priest limitations it by using a free alt and this is just going to make life easier and give priests nothing new except a little less rage and more time for people.  It will reduce lag on the servers and, more importantly, might be that little extra push some people need to prem up so they can priest up.



"Oh but what about pvp?"

Well funnily enough all non-mag PvP priests get a spell that non-mag PvE priests do not get.  How about we make this a freedom only feature?

"Oh but you get magic"

Yep and we also get capped skills.  Seems fairer than complete "YOU SHALL NOT SOLO UNLESS YOU RUN AN ALT AND BRING LAG TO THE SERVER".

"But...  Status Quo..."

I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you over the massive sound of change going on in wurm :P



Edit for Clarity :

The cap only applies to skills priests cannot currently use at the moment.  This means improving items, continuing structures etc.  So a priest with masonary 50 will still have the same masonary 50 craft rate for stone bricks, but will only imp objects as a 20 skilled character, nor will they be able to plan and continue stone walls.

The 20 cap is lifted if faithful is turned off. (But an increase in the faith hit to balance this out)
 

Edited by Etherdrifter

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After the changes to animal AI made it impossible for me to do the only things I was allowed to do besides dig, as someone playing a Fo priest on their main and only account, I simply gave my account away and left.  Priesting just sucks, the fact that people only do it on throwaway alts proves that. Rolf won't change it though, because then people wouldn't buy premium for multiple accounts. This is about half his income. No chance at all of it being changed.


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After the changes to animal AI made it impossible for me to do the only things I was allowed to do besides dig, as someone playing a Fo priest on their main and only account, I simply gave my account away and left.  Priesting just sucks, the fact that people only do it on throwaway alts proves that. Rolf won't change it though, because then people wouldn't buy premium for multiple accounts. This is about half his income. No chance at all of it being changed.

Actually I can see this being changed because there are still heavy limits in place (the 20 skillcap is that of a free alt), so anyone wanting premium level stuff (stone houses maybe?) would still have to prem an alt.

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Unless the dev team says so, I kinda doubt alts that sit and do nothing other than a couple actions are a huge burden on the server.


 


Just state your real reasons for wanting the change made. Not agreeing or disagreeing here, but I don't see a well constructed argument supporting your suggestion.


Edited by Sevenless

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This fix would reduce the total number of active subscriptions, therefore Led Zeppelin. 


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Unless the dev team says so, I kinda doubt alts that sit and do nothing other than a couple actions are a huge burden on the server.

 

Just state your real reasons for wanting the change made. Not agreeing or disagreeing here, but I don't see a well constructed argument supporting your suggestion.

Actually it really is just to prevent the need to run 2 clients at the same time.  My free alt long ago surpassed my priest's skills when it comes to the essentials (woodcutting, mining, etc) and this would just cut a corner that really serves no purpose.  I have no intention of preming him since he's only there for upkeep stuff and if the tunnel to my home needs clearing.  Essentially just dead weight on the server.

A lot of people who play a priest as their main would feel the same (a suggestion to relieve priests a little comes up every month or so and gets a lot of support from priests but a lot of shooting down from everyone else).  In this case the argument is made to give priests a break but at no cost to rolf (those who want premium level goods/items are going to have to have a separate premium alt, those who just use their alt to maintain a house are no longer going to need to run 2 clients).  I would hypothesis that the number of people who run just their priest instead of a prem alt and their priest would be balanced up by the number of people who would prem up a character to run a priest because it is no longer so damn inconvenient.

All in all no harm, no foul, just a little less pressure on us and on the server.

 

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I don't get it.


The priest penalties really are not that bad, if you don't want to deal with them, don't priest.


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I don't get it.

The priest penalties really are not that bad, if you don't want to deal with them, don't priest.

Actually they're gamebreaking if you don't play a alt.

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The way I see it, you don't need to play this game as a priest; therefore, it's a choice. You don't need to be able to cast to play the game. It's meant as a different aspect of the game.


 


If you want a supreme pickaxe as opposed to a regular pickaxe, you need to fork over more money (or get lucky). If you want the bonuses that come with the priest you have to be willing to give up part of the game. If this wasn't the case, most people would likely become priests in the end and there would be no money to be made from enchants or courier casts or anything priest-wise.


 


Simply put, if you remove these "challenges" simply because people are lazy, then there's no reason for there to be priests at all.


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The way I see it, you don't need to play this game as a priest; therefore, it's a choice. You don't need to be able to cast to play the game. It's meant as a different aspect of the game.

 

If you want a supreme pickaxe as opposed to a regular pickaxe, you need to fork over more money (or get lucky). If you want the bonuses that come with the priest you have to be willing to give up part of the game. If this wasn't the case, most people would likely become priests in the end and there would be no money to be made from enchants or courier casts or anything priest-wise.

 

Simply put, if you remove these "challenges" simply because people are lazy, then there's no reason for there to be priests at all.

Its not about being lazy, its about how idiotically limiting priests are. have you ever met a priest that would deem it a SIN to sand a piece of wood? I mean as a priest you CAN'T BUILD A STONE or WOOD ALTAR!! You MIGHT be able to build a metal altar, but not if you're a vyn or fo, otherwise you need someone to mine stuff for you. There, if that doesn't strike you as stupid, then well...  Stuff.

Basically as many other things in Wurm Rolf went over the top in balancing Priests and made them basically the antithesis to what Wurm is about, and created CLASSES ingame. Unbalanced ones at that.

So yes, in a survival game having a character that can barely survive without assistance, priests could do with rethinking, the main reason they don't is that there's still some people crazy enough to pay double premium with cash.

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Its not about being lazy, its about how idiotically limiting priests are. have you ever met a priest that would deem it a SIN to sand a piece of wood? I mean as a priest you CAN'T BUILD A STONE or WOOD ALTAR!! You MIGHT be able to build a metal altar, but not if you're a vyn or fo, otherwise you need someone to mine stuff for you. There, if that doesn't strike you as stupid, then well...  Stuff.

Basically as many other things in Wurm Rolf went over the top in balancing Priests and made them basically the antithesis to what Wurm is about, and created CLASSES ingame. Unbalanced ones at that.

So yes, in a survival game having a character that can barely survive without assistance, priests could do with rethinking, the main reason they don't is that there's still some people crazy enough to pay double premium with cash.

 

This is in your opinion you mean. :)

 

All I'm saying is if priests could do the stuff normal people could do there would be no point in priests period. Everyone would be a priest as there would be no reason not to be one.

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For the most part, the game doesn't seem to me to be intended for completely solo play.  While it can be done for the most part, I don't think it was intended.  My priest is who gets the most playtime of all of my chars.  Granted she can't make weapons or tools to cast on much.  But she can do alot of other things including fight and defend herself.  A good many of the weapons I cast on are bought.  I could just as easily buy the tools and not have an 'alt' that can make them.  Everything that I need someone else to do I could purchase.  (yea I know it sucks but hey I'm asking them to purchase my items too)  Kinda works both ways doesn't it.  Such is life.


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Actually they're gamebreaking if you don't play a alt.

Its a MMO.

 

And faith hits are nothing, priests penalties really are just minor inconveniences.

 

Calling Wurm a survival game is kinda silly, PvE pretty much has no real threats and food/water is easy to obtain.

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I too believe that Rolf's intent was for players to have multiple accts.  Myself, I cannot imagine playing with just a single character.  Even though I have been working my priest for a long time, I cant get away from the sense of potential in having him.  It is that potential that keeps me keeping him in premium.  The longer I do, the more benefit I get from him.  This  was definitely by design. 


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The trouble is that the changes offered would not in any way effect this design.

In this way priests would still be very limited (as much as a free account, and I wonder how many of the people who have commented on here so far found the "free" part of the game enough?

This is simply removing the need for FREE alts, NOT for PAID alts.

This is in your opinion you mean. :)

 

All I'm saying is if priests could do the stuff normal people could do there would be no point in priests period. Everyone would be a priest as there would be no reason not to be one.

If you read the suggestion carefully before kneejerking then you would notice this would NOT allow priests to do the same things that premium players can do (free players yes, but then if I remember right the premium community does not much care how inconvenient a free player's life is). It limits them very heavily (ergo the "freeplay" part of the game). It allows them to solo effectively but still prevents them crafting anything tradable (when was the last time you bought a QL22 pickaxe?).

I don't get it.

The priest penalties really are not that bad, if you don't want to deal with them, don't priest.

Try soloing as a priest for a couple of months without using an alt (starting over). Then tell me how inconvenient they are.

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-1  right now if I have an emergency, I can take a faith hit and do anything I want, I think that a cap of 20 is even more limited, since priests can still excel in certain fields with the current system.


And I played my main as priest for a long time, untill someone else in my deed decided to became priest of the same religion I was, so I became obsolete and returned to just being follower.


 


And, btw, that was a priest that could imp stone walls up to 60, arrows up to 70, blacksmith stuff up to 50, around 80 digging, around 60 mining, etc.


 


What I mean with that is, its not a disposable alt, its a real MAIN character that I switch between regular and priest.


 


 


So, this system proposed, would actually hurt me, and all the other people who actually play priest characters.


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I just wish priest could do "priestly" skills...

/looks at alchemy.

Who wants one of my 6-hour long alchemy discussions...? :3

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Bring it on, tell us ALL you think about alchemy, and how it should relate to priests


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For the most part, the game doesn't seem to me to be intended for completely solo play.  While it can be done for the most part, I don't think it was intended.  My priest is who gets the most playtime of all of my chars.  Granted she can't make weapons or tools to cast on much.  But she can do alot of other things including fight and defend herself.  A good many of the weapons I cast on are bought.  I could just as easily buy the tools and not have an 'alt' that can make them.  Everything that I need someone else to do I could purchase.  (yea I know it sucks but hey I'm asking them to purchase my items too)  Kinda works both ways doesn't it.  Such is life.

In this you're right. Clearly Rolf didn't intend this as a solo game, but given the size of the community, and the miserable player retention its what you get.

I watched recently a video from developers from Arena net (guildwars 2, not exactly a indy developer) saying that sometimes what you intend and how people play doesn't add up entirely, and has a dev you have to have the humility to go along with how the game developed and work with that. This is what Rolf lacks, the humility to understand that the game we play isn't the game he envisioned, and he keeps breaking the game to force-feed us that vision.

 

I'm not saying unlock priests completely, but there have been some cool ideas on how to make priests a bit more independent, some voiced by myself.

 

I too believe that Rolf's intent was for players to have multiple accts.  Myself, I cannot imagine playing with just a single character.  Even though I have been working my priest for a long time, I cant get away from the sense of potential in having him.  It is that potential that keeps me keeping him in premium.  The longer I do, the more benefit I get from him.  This  was definitely by design. 

 

Its a MMO.

 

And faith hits are nothing, priests penalties really are just minor inconveniences.

 

Calling Wurm a survival game is kinda silly, PvE pretty much has no real threats and food/water is easy to obtain.

I'm not the one that calls Wurm that. Its the company, its most of the community, i for one think that the survival aspect kinda clears out after the first 24h of the game, less if you like to go full carebear and buy templars. But that's me, and unlike people say i hardly ever voice my strict personal opinion on how it affects me, but try to view the larger picture and how it would affect others. I for one own a priest of each denomination, and am working on how to make some of my other alts into cheap batteries.

And the MMO argument means what? Its a MMO RPG SANDBOX, both of the later "words" (Rpg isn't really a word, but bear with it) mean that you should have a choice in the matter, and priesting limits your choices, sure you can have, and should have limitations, problem is instead of limitations Rolf gave us a "all or nothing" situation, that isn't balancing.

 

Bring it on, tell us ALL you think about alchemy, and how it should relate to priests

Everything? Most of the time "alchemy" or science in middle ages on "western" countries (you have to remember that during a big part of the middle ages a chunk of europe was under some influence or complete rule by Arab/Muslim cultures, which were, unlike nowadays, leading in fields of science, specially math-related) was carried out by priests or people of noble descent (most often both). In most cases clergymen were the only people with the ability to read and write in their surroundings, so more often than not were the only ones able to pursue knowledge and the fundamentals of chemistry aka alchemy.

Edited by KanePT

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I just wish priest could do "priestly" skills...

/looks at alchemy.

Who wants one of my 6-hour long alchemy discussions...? :3

 

Well you do realize that alchemy was traditionally considered to be a heathen art and alchemists were persecuted as heretics right? (and I know full well realism doesn't apply to games, just an amusing anecdote)

 

Sides, alchemy is very specifically allowed to Fo priests. So priests can do it, you're just following the wrong religion :P

 

The honest issue I have with this is that everyone says "Don't main a priest, it's not really feasible", someone main's a priest knowing this advice, and then they come back a month later saying "You can't main a priest, this should be changed". It really irks me when people do something everyone tells them is a bad idea and then turn around and suggest systems be changed to accommodate them.

 

That being said this is the most reasonable suggestion I've seen to date on the topic. I'm still against it, but I'm less against it than I have other changes. I play my priests actively, both my vyn and fo have 50+ farming and my fo has 50+ ah now. They are not just batteries to me, but I also have a main who does other crafting activities.

Edited by Sevenless

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Well you do realize that alchemy was traditionally considered to be a heathen art and alchemists were persecuted as heretics right? (and I know full well realism doesn't apply to games, just an amusing anecdote)

 

Sides, alchemy is very specifically allowed to Fo priests. So priests can do it, you're just following the wrong religion :P

Actually, no, that's folklore and Hollywood for you. Alchemy is just a word for the early attempts on chemistry, and many of the forefathers of current science were Clergymen, or religious (sometimes very) noblemen.

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Actually, no, that's folklore and Hollywood for you. Alchemy is just a word for the early attempts on chemistry, and many of the forefathers of current science were Clergymen, or religious (sometimes very) noblemen.

 

Even if that is true, often games are based more on lore than they are on actual history.

 

But it still goes back to: Gerroff my Fo benefits. It's already PvE gimped compared to Vyn. Want Alchemy? Deal with being a Fo priest XD

 

Before we talk about how fo isn't gimped in PvE because it can self buff in combat (because yes, everyone priests for combat and the regular armor/weps are clearly insufficient to hunt pve mobs. I have had that argument thrown in my face), Fo priest is like vynora minus Coc and Woa. Nimblness/Mindstealer/Lurker in the deep and locate soul spells. That's about equivalent to what Fo get compared to vyn. Mags are even worse off.

Edited by Sevenless

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Even if that is true, often games are based more on lore than they are on actual history.

 

But it still goes back to: Gerroff my Fo benefits. It's already PvE gimped compared to Vyn. Want Alchemy? Deal with being a Fo priest XD

 

Before we talk about how fo isn't gimped in PvE because it can self buff in combat (because yes, everyone priests for combat and the regular armor/weps are clearly insufficient to hunt pve mobs. I have had that argument thrown in my face), Fo priest is like vynora minus Coc and Woa. Nimblness/Mindstealer/Lurker in the deep and locate soul spells. That's about equivalent to what Fo get compared to vyn. Mags are even worse off.

I have one of each, so yeah i deal with it. Fo is AWESOME if you are into breeding and/or forestry/agriculture, Magranon is AWESOME for minners, Vynora is AWESOME for crafters, the only problem with that is that crafters supply everyone else, which is why Vynora comes out better off and as more useful.

But you forget yourself, Fo in freedom is the ONLY provider of what should be a core service within the game, which is MAIL. Without Fo priests there's no ingame mail for freedom/white light, if that isn't OP, idk what is.

 

Despite that, i love how any argument works for you as long as they don't touch your thing. Really cool attitude that.

Edited by KanePT

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Bring it on, tell us ALL you think about alchemy, and how it should relate to priests

I'll PM you in game later just for that, and you'll see what my alliance has to put up with on a weekly bases. :P

Edit: yes do can do it, but I can't even role play a priest as a priest in this game!!! As I've said, it would make more sense for a priest only skill rather then only one or none of them being able to do it, which I also don't want to see may I add. Everyone should be able to, and I'd like to see a massive overhaul to make it use forage, botanize, and minerals. I've thought about doing a huge post on it, and have typed it many times. But I get the feeling it would come out.... Like if want it for myself, to much lol.

2nd edit: and alchemy could fix a lot of things. Your clay problem? Transmute that clay to dirt! Or dirt to clay! With a brew you made out of say, iron, zinc, sassafras, and lovage! Boiled in a cauldron then use it on the tile! ;)

So many things could be done, temporary weapon, tools enchants, (that could combat priest only things!) or even like the current new ones, but with a different way to make. Brews to give special buffs (temp run speed, stamina regen) transmutes, potions, elixirs, things to possibly remove bad traits on a animal (slight hand to also kill them depending on quality???)

So much could be done, and you could even use it as a way for a person without a priest to get a slight effect they get, or go another completely different route that won't effect em in that way. I would love alchemy to be a huge thing you "can" do in the game, but I don't want to see it overpowered to where people feel they need to do it.

I'd love this game a trillion times more, but I doubt I'll ever see it happen. :(

Edited by Druidnature

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Isn't the idea of a priest that you live in a large village, so you don't need to do anything like building a house etc yourself?


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