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Beekeeping - Apiculture - Mead

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Sorry, -1. Within the realm of wurm mechanics, I really don't see the feasibility of beekeeping.

 

1) You go hunting and get attacked by bees? You need a beekeeper uniform? Changing armor in the midst of battle is not all that easy, or practical. And what weapon would work against bees... ?? So, imho, that's out.

 

2) Worker bees, those responsible for the honey-making, never stray far from their queen. So a queen bee could be made a tameable mob, (that would certainly make it easier on Rolf to code in a single mob rather than a swarm, I would assume) but what could be used to tame her, flowers? Queen bees never collect nectar so technically that really shouldn't work. (I know wurmlogic is sometimes more questionable than not, but we should at least try to maintain what we can of it.)

 

So you have no way to tame them, no way to lure them to your property and no way to keep them there should they show up. It's problematic.

 

However, I do believe honey could be slightly easy to add to the game - IF - beehives were to spawn in the same manner as scorpion stones, for example. You could still make use of a beekeeper uniform, or whatever other implements you all want added (someone mentioned a beegum smoker) if it's absolutely necessary. (Personally, I would prefer not.. ) Bring your keeper outfit hunting with you, and should you happen upon a hive, then changing armor without the heat of battle breathing down your neck. That would certainly be more preferable, no? Collect your honey (logically, in small amounts) from the "stone" and go. It's simple and a potential benefit for everyone—including poor Rolf.

 

Besides, bees tend to move around in nature, so a temporary hive is more logical.  Stones also decay very slowly. So this method of obtaining honey, and therefore the ability to make honey mead, is a lot more precious, and thus - if Rolf be willing - it could/should have an effect worthy of it's rarity. Unless, of course, you all just want more worthless crap like staircases and forks...

 

Should look through my post on the theorycraft of beekeeping. idea here isn't to make bee mobs, its to make a beekeeping mechanic.  Any damage that hives would do would be like standing inside a fire pillar spell, or whatnot, damage around a stationary object, that starts with a warning, then escalates as more of the hive gets aggravated and attacks.  The smoker, is easy to use and is fueled by kindling, and uses blacksmithing to make, lets you lower the aggravation and manage the damage to your bee protection.     

 

Link to my post: http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/104443-the-mechanics-of-beekeeping-theory-crafting-how-it-would-actually-work/

 

Also, the protective clothing shouldn't be that heavy, so if you do find a wild beehive, you can throw it on quick, then harvest it, and move on.  That is the idea,and lets you get things like beeswax and  harvest queens for trading early one until you get the carpentry needed to build you own apiary.  The mechanics behind it are within the realm of feasibility, since its based around containers, spawning objects like honeycombs in wild beehives, filling frames in an apiary with combs, etc.     That was what I was proposing.      I definitely think it's possible.    

Edited by Battlepaw

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+1 from me. I'd love to be able to breed bees and harvest honey.

I dont even need to read this thread, anything to do with bees will per auto get +1 from me.

  • Apiary use to increase grow speed on farm crops and trees nearby

A plus on crop yield and also give surrounding grass tiles a bigger chance of spawning flowers.

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Yes yes YES MEAD for all i say !!! .....


 


My Lords of Wurm keep this post alive we ALL need to drink MEAD !!! ;)


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Unless, of course, you all just want more worthless crap like staircases and forks...

So the answer is 'yes, we want more worthless crap'. That's the general consensus?

 

 

Should look through my post on the theorycraft of beekeeping

I have, and while I can understand the appeal of having something new in the game, I can not understand the desire of wanting that something new to have basically zero value. Even if Rolf were to make the apiary a 70 carp skill minimum to build, tons of people would still have them at this point. Mass production at its finest. Rolf would have no choice but to give mead, wax, honey, etc. etc. a crap effect and/or extremely limited uses as to not be considered overpowered and break the game. Farwalkers, anyone? So think about it, how often do you all sell wine? How often do you make it for the purpose of sales? I get it, the game isn't about making money. But you have to have an end-goal. If everyone mass produced yo-yos then they, too, would have no value because everyone would have one, no?

 

The OP listed their thoughts on the potential uses of this venture; salves (garlic+fat), molds (clay), candles (fat+string), stamina regain (wine), the ability to protect ql of string (BSB...), which consists on quite a few things we already have. Really, the only thing to be gained from beekeeping (that I can see) is the honey mead and since it will, undoubtedly, be mass produced - again, because so many are capable - the effect will have to be diminished as well. IE, it won't be worth the trouble for us to make, and not worth the trouble for Rolf to code in 50+ things that won't be used beyond the first month or so.

 

I mean no disrespect to the OP or the author of Theorycraft, but still -1. Please put your talented and creative minds together to come up with a better implementation. I'll happily support any idea that, like mine, means less work for Rolf ( = more probablity ) and can guarantee something of quality/value is added to the game.

 

 

 

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So the answer is 'yes, we want more worthless crap'. That's the general consensus?

 

I have, and while I can understand the appeal of having something new in the game, I can not understand the desire of wanting that something new to have basically zero value. Even if Rolf were to make the apiary a 70 carp skill minimum to build, tons of people would still have them at this point. Mass production at its finest. Rolf would have no choice but to give mead, wax, honey, etc. etc. a crap effect and/or extremely limited uses as to not be considered overpowered and break the game. Farwalkers, anyone? So think about it, how often do you all sell wine? How often do you make it for the purpose of sales? I get it, the game isn't about making money. But you have to have an end-goal. If everyone mass produced yo-yos then they, too, would have no value because everyone would have one, no?

 

The OP listed their thoughts on the potential uses of this venture; salves (garlic+fat), molds (clay), candles (fat+string), stamina regain (wine), the ability to protect ql of string (BSB...), which consists on quite a few things we already have. Really, the only thing to be gained from beekeeping (that I can see) is the honey mead and since it will, undoubtedly, be mass produced - again, because so many are capable - the effect will have to be diminished as well. IE, it won't be worth the trouble for us to make, and not worth the trouble for Rolf to code in 50+ things that won't be used beyond the first month or so.

 

I mean no disrespect to the OP or the author of Theorycraft, but still -1. Please put your talented and creative minds together to come up with a better implementation. I'll happily support any idea that, like mine, means less work for Rolf ( = more probablity ) and can guarantee something of quality/value is added to the game.

 

I'd be just as happy if there was really little value to Honey, or Beeswax.    I got into making wine because I enjoy it for what it is, something difficult, not because it was useful at all.  (which it really isn't) 

 

The reason I wrote anything towards the Theorcraft of how beekeeping would work, was to try to put beekeeping into context where it was feasible with wurm's existing mechanics.   The whole point of the post, if you would have read the introduction was to focus on the mechanics, as there have been tons of posts on the different uses of the products.   I don't feel beekeeping would ever be "worthless crap"  even if there was little you could do with the products, there will be many players like myself that will keep them simply for the challenge of it, and for mastering a skill that is fun and interesting.     Either way its a fascinating subject, and has a vast wealth of potential in Wurm's world.   

Edited by Battlepaw

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I don't feel beekeeping would ever be "worthless crap"  even if there was little you could do with the products




 


Those products having no use, importance, or effect is actually the definition of worthless. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/worthless Again, no disrepect, just pointing that out.


 



 


there will be many players like myself that will keep them simply for the challenge of it



 


"Hygiene" is another suggestion here on the forum. Most seem to view it as just another chore because there's no grand benefit to it. While I agree with you, many would participate in beekeeping solely for the challenge or to simply try the something new (at least for a month or so), it definitely seems "many"  more people don't share the enthusiam for uninspiring, additional tasks. Therefore, you can see how beekeeping, in it's current vision, would only service the minority, right? It's a great idea, or it could be, but I still think you all need to compromise .. a lot.

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Therefore, you can see how beekeeping, in it's current vision, would only service the minority, right? It's a great idea, or it could be, but I still think you all need to compromise .. a lot.

 

 

It will service those willing to work at it.  I'm a casual gamer, and I don't allways have time to grind away myself, I'm also in the millitary and go away for long periods of time every year for training.    I know I'd likely lose my apiarys during those times when I'm not active, especially under the system I crafted.  I can hardly see that as self-serving.     

 

40 carpentry isn't that hard to get.    I had as much within the first month of my playing wurm, and that was just me building stuff.    The limit on apiary construction is to encourage a tree of crafting and discovery, as you find wild beehives at the beginning of your exposure to the mechanic, gather the stuff you need to make an apiary, get your carpentry up to the point where you could actually maintain the hives,  etc.   It also encourages them to be a village effort, as you would need decent Cloth Tailor skills.  

 

If you want easymode there are plenty of games out there for that, and frankly Apiarist skill would be much easier to level than many existing skills, since all you really need to do when you have the equipment is wait at a timer, much like fishing. The trade-off is that you need to use your head when managing your colonies of bees, you need to think about placement, manage queen bloodlines, etc.  Even then this is much less intensive and more engaging than many of the crafting skills when you are constantly imping, for hours on end, and you have to constantly be active, I have no idea what your complaining about.   In any case the complexity of Wurm's world is what attracts many of the players here, and it deserves a decently thought-out system for beekeeping. 

Edited by Battlepaw
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 I can hardly see that as self-serving.

I'm not complaining and I never accused you of being self-serving. I've just played this game long enough to know Rolf doesn't add things easily unless they're easy for him to add. (No offense to him either, I know coding things for games is far from easy) I'm taking multiple things into account, Rolf, the fact that 25 or so people out of the 1100 that's online right now have shown an interest in this particular post, and your plan, while well-thought and perfectly feasible, is also complex and involves a lot of work—not just for the creator, but also for the players. While you're willing to work for little reward, many more are not (IE the hygiene thread, which is why I mentioned it). 

 

You said you'd be fine if the products have little to no value. Personally, I wouldn't be. Do we need more useless added to the game? That is my only complaint, and even with that I'm taking into account the countless others that haven't voiced their opinion here. I'd rather see something of value added, period. Something that the majority of people would want to take advantage of. Additional tasks with no reward is not something the majority would ever want, and reasonably so.

 

If you had read my suggestion, then I really don't understand what you mean by easy mode. My plan was actually harder, prevented mass production, had an element of luck, and involved players needing to leave the safety of deeds once in awhile to find the goods to work with. Or, in other words, explore and play the game. It's also a lot easier for Rolf to code in, which means far more likely to be added to the game. I'm not saying mine is the only/best plan. Actually, I'm quite sure others could come up with something better easily. It is, however, superior to beekeeping in it's current form, imho.

 

However, in the end, this isn't up to us. There's very little reason for you and I to keep going back and forth like this, because Rolf could just as easily scrap both our ideas. You seem to feel very strongly about this subject, so I wish you luck in getting what you want and in the way you want it. It's not been my goal to sway your opinion. I only thought it best to reach a compromise, but if you're unwilling then that's that. It's not my place to force it. So, again, good luck to you and the OP.

 

(By the way, thank you for your service sir.) 

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I'm not complaining and I never accused you of being self-serving. I've just played this game long enough to know Rolf doesn't add things easily unless they're easy for him to add. (No offense to him either, I know coding things for games is far from easy) I'm taking multiple things into account, Rolf, the fact that 25 or so people out of the 1100 that's online right now have shown an interest in this particular post, and your plan, while well-thought and perfectly feasible, is also complex and involves a lot of work—not just for the creator, but also for the players. While you're willing to work for little reward, many more are not (IE the hygiene thread, which is why I mentioned it). 

 

You said you'd be fine if the products have little to no value. Personally, I wouldn't be. Do we need more useless added to the game? That is my only complaint, and even with that I'm taking into account the countless others that haven't voiced their opinion here. I'd rather see something of value added, period. Something that the majority of people would want to take advantage of. Additional tasks with no reward is not something the majority would ever want, and reasonably so.

 

If you had read my suggestion, then I really don't understand what you mean by easy mode. My plan was actually harder, prevented mass production, had an element of luck, and involved players needing to leave the safety of deeds once in awhile to find the goods to work with. Or, in other words, explore and play the game. It's also a lot easier for Rolf to code in, which means far more likely to be added to the game. I'm not saying mine is the only/best plan. Actually, I'm quite sure others could come up with something better easily. It is, however, superior to beekeeping in it's current form, imho.

 

However, in the end, this isn't up to us. There's very little reason for you and I to keep going back and forth like this, because Rolf could just as easily scrap both our ideas. You seem to feel very strongly about this subject, so I wish you luck in getting what you want and in the way you want it. It's not been my goal to sway your opinion. I only thought it best to reach a compromise, but if you're unwilling then that's that. It's not my place to force it. So, again, good luck to you and the OP.

 

(By the way, thank you for your service sir.) 

 

What compromise?    The idea is to find a way to get them implemented, and figure out the feasibility.  What you want is everything handed to you on a silver platter if it is implemented.    Hell what is the point of that?  This is supposed to be a survival game.   Things shouldn't ever be easy or simple, because the whole point is the struggle.   

 

You seem to be under the impression that this would be useless crap, and you completely ignore all the possibilities that players have presented here, and even more that we probably haven't thought of but the developers may add on their own.   Just where do you see that honey is useless?  You could use it in mead, wine, make sugar out of it for cooking, make salves.    Same with beeswax, or royal jelly.  There is just so much potential.   

 

I honestly don't understand why your bothering to post if all you want to do is complain about how hard something is, that it requires some effort to maintain the beehives, that who cares because Rolf will never implement this anyways, and that you don't want more "useless crap".   

 

In the end its up to the players to make the development team understand the validity of an idea, they may implement it if they wish, but persistence and enthusiasm have often paid off.   If Rolf realizes how many of us support this idea and want to see it a reality, its possible it may be implemented.  It also helps if we can properly outline a way for the mechanic to be implemented, not just demand a massively complex and difficult system of beekeeping be sprouted from his brain over night.  (And then assume he would get it working)    

Edited by Battlepaw

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+1 BUT I feel as if rolf should fix all of the current bugs and such to optimize current gameplay. After he does that he could start doing stuff like this.

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I will always +1 bee ideas!


Not only would having bees around increase crop yield, but having crops around would increase honey yield.


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You seem to be under the impression that this would be useless crap, and you completely ignore all the possibilities that players have presented here, and even more that we probably haven't thought of but the developers may add on their own.   Just where do you see that honey is useless?  You could use it in mead, wine, make sugar out of it for cooking, make salves.    Same with beeswax, or royal jelly.  There is just so much potential.   

 

 

 

+1, there is a lot of potential for "use" from beekeeping products, and I would add that if one wants to talk about value, it would be unfortunate to forget about enjoyment value! That is, having an engaging activity to sink one's teeth into, with a satisfying degree of detail and challenge - To paraphrase an earlier post in this thread, one of the things that really makes this game stand out is the detail in the every day gaming experience. I love having long-term projects in this game, many of which, yes, give material rewards commensurate with the effort put in, but others are worth doing purely for the enjoyment and feeling of personal achievement, and sharing that experience with other players. Such is my experience at any rate :)

 

While I don't feel all that qualified to speak about the actual feasibility of implementing a feature like this, or to predict whether it would actually happen, but I do feel excited about the idea of an occupation in the game that evolves over time, that we can develop and improve on beyond just getting higher skill in it. I love the genetics mechanics in animal breeding, and would love to see more of that kind of long-term-focused gameplay.

 

As for the value of working at something mainly for enjoyment or personal satisfaction, well that's something that is down to the individual to define or quantify. I personally place a very high value on that when I'm playing a video game - I'm working on a Camelia plantation so that I can make tea in game, I wish to get into beverage making, I spend ages collecting sprouts for trees that I just want to have around the deed because they look nice. I get really excited about things like trellis models in the tutorial area :P These things I do alongside the more "valuable" pursuits, which I enjoy just as much - I don't feel unreasonable in wanting more and better in the areas Wurm offers and most other games don't. There are plenty of other games, but only one Wurm!

Edited by flinty

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Greetings all wall-of-texters! What was the OP again ? Oh yes.


 


+1 to adding mead (by the way, there's no reason this couldn't be made from currently in-game syrup.)


  1. Mix your sugar source with water, as if for alchemy ... call it alchemy even, for chance to create, but give beverage tick on success.
  2. Leave to age into decent mead.

btw, you don't need hops for beer and ale, only for bitter version which last longer. Ale = barley, beer is more generic but say Beer = wheat in wurm.


Create by same process as for mead (grain = sugar source, alchemy mix-with-water) Beer should improve with age for a while, then start to decay, so max quality would depend on starting quality. This leaves room for adding hops which will extend time before decay, as Bitter Ale and Bitter Beer.


 


+1 to honey and beeswax


 


I'll put forward the idea that we should *keep it simple to get it in-game, ask for upgrades later, in-line with making stuff more immersive*


  • Thatch yourself a bee-skep and leave until bees arrive. A live behive will act in a similar way to a thornbush so watch your step. The buzzing sound should be warning enough. Minor poison wounds.
  • Skep will gain weight during spring, summer and autumn seasons, to a maximum weight, and decrease in honey yield during winter.
  • You can harvest this resource at anytime during the year, but the best time is the last day of autumn.
  • Harvest with a bucket, for liquid honey and solid wax. I don't see the need for adding honeycomb as a step.
  • Harvesting will destroy the hive/skep. This is how apiculture started out historically. You will get stung doing this as you must be on the same tile. No-one should try beekeeping IRL or in-game if they are afraid of getting stung.
  • Quality of hive determines maximum yields available of wax and honey. Trying to improve a live-hive will get you stung.
  • Repair a beehive regularly to keep the quality high. A damaged hive will lose storage capacity equal to percentage of damage.
  • A second skep built within the tile-radius of a live hive would have an increased diceroll for attracting bees. So you can 'tend' your bees by managing them in this way.
  • Bees do not spawn (swarm) in winter. In fact there could be a bee-swarm season for the diceroll of a hive going 'live'.

"Poison wounds can be treated with farmer's salve, healing covers or magical healing (Fo), but not cotton." - Wurmpedia


 


Bee-skeps could improve field-yield within a small tile radius except in winter and not benefit cereal grains or corn (wind pollinated). Skeps below waterline would not attract bees.


 


IF you do have wild hives that you can harvest in the same manner, they should only spawn on tree tiles in mixed forest/grass areas - this is where honey bees lived before humans domesticated them. They don't like deep woods or treeless lands. But I think there might be a lot of resistance to having random trees spawn beehives that sting you like thorn bushes. Then again, harvesting destroys the nest, and trees shrivelling will destroy the nest, so why not. Have wild-hives increase fruit-tree / bush yield within small radius to compensate. As you don't have to stand on the same tile as a tree to prune/harvest, you can be careful and not get stung. Perhaps building a skep within range of a beehive would increase your diceroll of attracting bees, and vice-versa that a skep with trees in range increases chance of beehive spawn. Wild-hives should have a minimum distance between them, not be able to colonise every tree in a forest.


 


I think skeps, with or without wild hives, would be immersive enough to bring beekeeping in-line with the current standard, not be too overpowered as to make maple-sap worthless and not be too complicated to implement for the devs as it uses a lot of existing mechanics and not too many new items.


 


Debate bonuses for alcoholic beverages, uses for honey beyond what syrup can do now and uses for wax beyond candles all you like, I think alcoholic beverages other than wine would be popular even without bonuses. AFAIK, tea has no benefit beyond water to drink, and people still make it.


Edited by Drayka
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For all who enjoy deep, submersive mechanics. This would be alot of fun.


 


+1 For Bees and Mead!


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I'll put forward the idea that we should *keep it simple to get it in-game, ask for upgrades later, in-line with making stuff more immersive*

 

+1 

 

/Andreas

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Beekeeping level 90 title: covered in bees?


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Gonna bump this thread! Was thinking about the same thing today.


Bee "skeps" are the typical dome shaped beehives that you see often. They are made with thatched grass or straw - something we have ingame.


 


Untitled.png


 


 


My idea was that they would use the fine carpentry skill;


 


20x thatched grass


10x iron wire


2x planks


2x small nails


 


The thatch and wire would be the dome of the structure. The planks and nails would be to provide the base.


 


 


Beeskeps attract bees overtime. Of course this takes a while, perhaps anywhere from 24 hours to a full real life week. Luckily, bees don't take much maintenance, so in reality, a beehive will function similar to a fountain and simply fill with an amount of honeycombs. Using a knife or pliers, these honeycombs will be extracted from the hive - a small timer and the husbandry skill would be involved - and when finished, the comb will be gone and honey appears into the inventory of the harvester.


 


Once the honey is harvested, the honeycomb inside the hive is destroyed. It will take some time for new bees to come by and make new honey, 24h to a week.


If looking for an easier option, simply make the skep fill with honey and whomever can take it. Basically a fountain that doesn't need a source tile and fills with honey instead.


 


 


The most obvious and direct use for honey is, of course, alcohol! In particular... mead.


A simple wurmified version of creating mead would be simply by boiling honey and water together.


 


 


I love the + growth on farms and trees idea, too!


Edited by Alyeska

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