Posted June 9, 2014 (edited) Let's make steel worth the effort. What can we do to achieve this? I don't know, but here's the point: 20% damage reduction isn't making it worth to make swords out of it. More damage (I'm not saying 10% like addy, but maybe 2%?) would.20% damage reduction isn't making it worth to make chain out of it. +1 to armor protection would.People don't use steel for anything else than mine door and plate armour. Keep in mind the suggestion isn't to necessarily implement mechanics posted in this post, I'm just saying that steel deserves some more love. What do you think? Edited June 14, 2014 by Arkhir Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 9, 2014 (edited) I think that steel is worth the effort if you want well-made items that will last longer. It's not as noticeable, but in the long run it's definitely worth the bit of coal and work that it takes. This includes items that tend not to get damaged too much . Edited June 9, 2014 by williamwierd Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 9, 2014 That's why I didn't mention tools, cause it's sort of useful for them, but still you can't see people prefering to use steel over iron, and game should encourage them to do so. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 9, 2014 I think it'd be better to just make it take even less dmg. A 10 or 20% dmg reduction isn't really very noticable or interesting. A 50% dmg reduction would actually make a noticable difference and not be OP Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 9, 2014 I think it'd be better to just make it take even less dmg. A 10 or 20% dmg reduction isn't really very noticable or interesting. A 50% dmg reduction would actually make a noticable difference and not be OP 30 would proabably be the magic number. And steel isn't that hard to make. I made several lumps of ql 60+ steel at 9 metallurgy using ql 20 coal. Even made a few ql 70. If you have enough iron, you can make a lot of good steel. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 9, 2014 30 would proabably be the magic number. And steel isn't that hard to make. I made several lumps of ql 60+ steel at 9 metallurgy using ql 20 coal. Even made a few ql 70. If you have enough iron, you can make a lot of good steel. Back when the ability to create steel weapons/tools was first implemented, people did tests confirming a 33% damage reduction... not sure when that changed to 20%, but 33% seemed decent. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 9, 2014 (edited) Yeah, well, all I'm saying is difficulty of making steel isn't balanced by rewards coming from using it, hence everyone prefers iron and steel's only use is plate armour. Edited June 9, 2014 by Arkhir Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 9, 2014 Even with a 50% damage reduction, it's just too much bother to make high QL steel. It's much easier just to have an iron tool and re-imp it. Getting 90+ QL steel, even with 60 metallurgy (which is a pain to level) and 80+ charcoal is miserable. When compared to rolling out to an utmost iron vein and whacking it for a few minutes for 90+ QL ore. There'd have to be an actual advantage (damage for weapons or protection for armor) for me to bother with. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 9, 2014 You want more armour protection? Make plate. I don't see a problem Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 9, 2014 You want more armour protection? Make plate. I don't see a problem I've got 92 plate armour smithing. Your argument is invalid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 9, 2014 Still pretty valid, I don't see anyone whining about tin being useless, bronze being more useless than steel, so tbh there's no need to buff steel when you could just make bronze armour a thing Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 9, 2014 I see you represent a "let's put useless stuff into the game" point of view.Bronze and gold can be done just for the looks. Give me one reason why limiting possibilities of currently implemented mechanics in the game is a good idea. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 9, 2014 I would love to see steel be worth making for something other than plate, its really silly that a stronger/better metal is meh enough people don't want to bother with it because its such a pain to get high ql Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 9, 2014 (edited) I do think there's a really weird dichotomy between carp/smithing. Why do we get to oak for no extra cost, but steel costs us plenty because we have to imp with it and not any generic wood metal? Edited June 9, 2014 by Sevenless Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 9, 2014 at 90 metallurgy it's easier to make 90+ql steel. I've started to sell a a bit of tools and armour now that it's easier for me to keep stocks. pm me for orders. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 10, 2014 Sure +1 for taking even less damage, -1 for making it a pvp requirement doing more damage Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 10, 2014 Sure +1 for taking even less damage, -1 for making it a pvp requirement doing more damage just a matter of balance between pros/cons (cons being mostly the effort it takes to make steel) I'm not suggesting to make it OP as ###### and basically replace iron, I'm suggesting to make it worth getting a steel weapon, armor, tool, whatever. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 10, 2014 at 90 metallurgy it's easier to make 90+ql steel. I've started to sell a a bit of tools and armour now that it's easier for me to keep stocks. pm me for orders. Any tips how to reach 90 metallurgy? Are you on epic or freedom cluster ? Im freedom with 37 metallurgy, its super slow gain. Since coal is a bit limit resource coz the time it takes to get it, i been doing some sessions of tin + copper grinding. Also i would say that at my skilllevel 5% of the lumps become useable for high 70-90ql Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 10, 2014 The trouble with damage reduction is... When it comes time to repair/re-imp? You've got to make more steel. This probably takes more time than you'd save just mining the iron and repairing one extra time for every 4. You also need to grind 3 skills (mining, coaling and metallurgy) to make steel compared to the one skill you need for iron so high QL iron tools are a lot easier to make and to maintain.A noticeable tier difference between iron and steel seems reasonable if you consider this, both in PvP (since it adds the challenge of extra infrastructure) and PvE (3 skills rather than 1).Upping the damage reduction rate on tools to 30-40% would be a step in the right direction, maybe making it slightly easier to enchant would also go a long way. Changes to damage and armour I am wary about because of balance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 10, 2014 Any tips how to reach 90 metallurgy? Are you on epic or freedom cluster ? Im freedom with 37 metallurgy, its super slow gain. Since coal is a bit limit resource coz the time it takes to get it, i been doing some sessions of tin + copper grinding. Also i would say that at my skilllevel 5% of the lumps become useable for high 70-90ql Low QL charcoal helps as it increases difficulty. But even then it's not a fun gind; just grit your teeth 70 metallurgy here and I cbf grinding it further. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 10, 2014 I find the time to make steel weapons/tools/shields/chainmail - with the coal making metallurgy and everything is just not worth the time as I can make 2-3 iron sets and repair them in same time saving my coal for plate armor Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 13, 2014 Agreed for the amount of work it takes to make decent ql steel, it should create better items to a certain degree. The bronze and brass argument I feel is silly as both prerequisite ores are simply mineable, compare mining 15 ore with a woa pick to creating a coal pile. I think steel chain armour should provide a small bonus to damage reduction , block rate on shields and damage increase, swing speed, hit rating or parry to weapons. 5% increase seems fair to me. As to the pvp argument, you all have a ready source of high ql steel and those who use drake/scale or addy/glimmer are already gaining a similar bonus to these statistics yet it doesn't make it mandatory to have them Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 13, 2014 Make steel gear lighter than iron gear? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 13, 2014 Worth the Effort?Go around in chain.Then you'll see why it is already worth the Effort. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 13, 2014 Make steel gear lighter than iron gear? Doesn't really seem to be a rewarding option for all that work. Those who have the ability to make high ql steel have high enough body strength for that to almost not matter. Iron is a soft metal where steel is a hard alloy, it's more durable, stronger and keeps a better edge than iron will and it's not lighter. The metal qualities seem to fit what I suggested. A more durable armour would cause you to take less damage, a weapon with a finer edge would inflict more damage and parry easier due to lack of notches on the blade. Worth the Effort? Go around in chain. Then you'll see why it is already worth the Effort. Plate has different glancing values to chain armour and is less effective vs certain types of attack, although the damage reduction is less, having steel chain armour would obviously reduce less damage than plate more than iron chain, but still be more useful and viable Share this post Link to post Share on other sites